Are Books Becoming Obsolete?

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People might not be in the mood to hear of/discuss personal conflicts when reading threads on forums like AW. Your title is intriguing. Folks may be excited to discuss it, but then they run into a bit of drama.

I'm straightforward and share my opinion too often, probably. So I get that :) It's Office Party, so maybe the personal comments about the forum are less inappropriate than they'd be in another sub-forum. In PC&E, we get to share a lot of strong opinions, for instance :D

But I agree that the crit of the forum was unnecessary in this thread. Folks may just want to discuss your OP subject in peace (as in, not having to wade through any drama).

I hope this post was helpful to show why some folks get irritated about how you did the OP. That's why I think it's 'wrong', anyway.
 

Alessandra Kelley

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It's remarkable bad luck how someone with only 32 posts managed to post on a daily basis and get an experience of rudeness. I am sorry for your misfortune.

Be that as it may, I've been an ardent book reader and fan all my life. I have haunted libraries and bookstores and web sites, drinking in the wonderful books.

But Waldenbooks and Books a Million stores always gave me headaches. I mean literally. There was something about their bland, uncaring atmosphere that made me feel sorry for the books there, but in no way enticed to browse.

I don't think an empty mall chain remaindered bookstore is indicative of something so momentous as the Death of the Book.
 

Write_Askew

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No, I think it's important. I'm increasingly weirded out by Amazon's tactics. I think the DOJ is looking at the wrong corporations.

Brick-and-mortar stores are still driving books sales in ways that people outside of sales and publishing may not realize.

And I think that's especially true of Barnes and Noble, who in some ways get ebooks much better than Amazon. I love the way they sell both print and ebooks in their store. I read an interview that I'll try to find with someone in the executive hierarchy of B and N who noted how often readers would buy a print and an ebook copy of a book; that matches my personal habits, as well as the data I helped collect in the dawn of ebooks about how people read and bought books.

I truly don't see ebooks and printed books as competitor, any more than I see paperback and hardcover as true competitors.

I do think we'll see better quality POD production methods, that prices of POD will come down and quality will go up, and I think we'll see more options like the Espresso Book Machine, as well as easy to use digital vending systems for ebooks.

At least, that's my hope.

I'm glad to hear I hadn't entirely missed the mark. I have yet to purchase an e-reader, although that has a lot to do with the fact that I would probably never get anything done if I had one. Its bad enough that I have a house full of books...but having a tablet full of them too would prevent me from ever getting any writing done. I remember the last time I was in an airport bookstore the guy there was trying to convince me to buy one by telling me I could fit every book I owned on it. I laughed at him. I felt bad for a moment and then I laughed again. Not only could I never afford to re-buy all of them, but it would take a remarkably large tablet to hold them all. Between my partner and I, we actually have a real library in our home. We're at something like 2000 volumes and growing every day.

More to the point, though, I like having the paperbacks. I think you make an interesting point about paperbacks and hardbacks being in competition with one another. I have a few authors of series that I collect their first edition paperbacks, and I'm always at war with whether or not I want the hardback too. Sometimes I can't resist.

That said, though, there are some authors who publish e-book exclusives. Romance author Eloisa James, for example, has several books that are not in print, but only in ebook format. I almost turned a cartwheel whenever I found out she was releasing a collection of a few of her e-books in paperback. I think its brilliant marketing. I've almost bought a tablet several times because there are authors I love printing e-book exclusives. I think they would make great companion marketing pieces, if done correctly.

While I was irritated to see B&N rip out entire sections of my local store in install a nook station, I'll admit that it has done a lot for their sales, from what I can see. There's always a ton of people in there purchasing and learning more about them. Not to mention they're really savvy about putting books out that also have e-book formats, so you can have both.

I'll look forward to that article, if you can find it.
 

benluby

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Our local Borders went out of business last year, which surprised my wife and I, as it was usually fairly busy. We were regular customers, in fact, buying a couple books each every time we went up there.
Sadly, we have no other actual book stores in this town.
 

Caitlin Black

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Kind of off-topic (kind of) but when did B&N put in a Nook area in their stores? We don't have that chain where I live, but I ask because 1.5 years ago, when I was doing a retail class, I needed to write a paper (well, more like a presentation) on an innovative idea for a retail store.

I chose a book store, and said that I'd love to be able to sell e-books in an actual book store, which I thought might go a long way to saving the failing stores down here from increased revenue.

I couldn't quite work out the logistics of being able to sell the ebooks for any more than online (to turn a profit) aside from maybe getting a discount from the publisher and selling them at online-prices anyway...

But yeah, this thread is the first I've heard of a physical book store selling ebooks, and it piqued my interest (and made me wish I owned a book store 1.5 years ago, so I could've been the first to do it :tongue).
 

davidh219

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Print books are still alive and well, I assure you. Brick and mortar book stores are another matter, however. Online shopping is the new thing, and that means that the only stores that have a secure future are department stores like Walmart, and convenience stores like Walgreens. Specialty stores are becoming less common, and book have always been a specialty item. Online shopping is the perfect platform for specialty items though. Any bookstore would burst at the seems trying to cater to everyone's tastes, but Amazon has ALL of the books. I, personally, buy almost all of my books off Amazon.

Add that to the fact that, while the amount of regular readers on the planet compared to a hundred years ago has increased, the actual percentage of readers compared to the population as a whole has decreased.
And, yes, a lot of people read their books on an e-reader these days as well. This cuts into the profit margins of brick and mortar book stores even more.

What it all boils down to is an economy that makes it harder for traditional book stores to stay in business. The ones that get by do it by only carrying the most profitable items. The new stuff, the trending stuff, the books that were made into big movies in the past few years, etc. I never, EVER go into plain old book stores, because I know that there's nothing there that I would be interested in, and even if there is it would be less expensive somewhere else. If I'm not buying books off Amazon or Ebay I'm buying them from a thrift shop.

Basically Walmart is going to enslave us, is what I think I'm trying to say, so...yeah.
 

Civic

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They better not be! I prefer a physical cover-and-pages book in my hand rather than reading a mini monitor; I do that eight hours a day anyway. Besides, I'd like to read without worrying about battery life.
 

Caitlin Black

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One thing to keep in mind is that, in the event of an emergency, flinging an ereader at someone may hurt more than flinging a paper book at them.

Unless it's a thick hardcover book, or War And Peace or something.

This is why the future of novels is that they will be printed on a broadsword. Mmhmm.

/derail
 

Write_Askew

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Kind of off-topic (kind of) but when did B&N put in a Nook area in their stores? We don't have that chain where I live, but I ask because 1.5 years ago, when I was doing a retail class, I needed to write a paper (well, more like a presentation) on an innovative idea for a retail store.

I chose a book store, and said that I'd love to be able to sell e-books in an actual book store, which I thought might go a long way to saving the failing stores down here from increased revenue.

I couldn't quite work out the logistics of being able to sell the ebooks for any more than online (to turn a profit) aside from maybe getting a discount from the publisher and selling them at online-prices anyway...

But yeah, this thread is the first I've heard of a physical book store selling ebooks, and it piqued my interest (and made me wish I owned a book store 1.5 years ago, so I could've been the first to do it :tongue).

I think the one in my B&N was put in about a year or so ago. They got rid of the section in the back where they used to have all of the CD's and movies and moved some of the stacks back there. The whole center of the store is now a huge Nook promo area. In the center there's a bunch of different styles of Nooks on little counters rather like you see at cell phone stores for the phones. They have a bunch of magazines and books on the inside walls, showing you what you can get on the Nook. They offer tech help as well. If you're new to e-books and such, its great opportunity. I see a ton of older people (my grandmothers age) in there learning. Its a great marketing tool.

Not owning a tablet myself, I have no idea what else they do. I'll have to go check it out and report back. Its an interesting concept, isn't it?
 

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In the 1990s The Voyager Company created kiosks to sell ebooks and multimedia enriched ebooks on CD-ROMs. We partnered with Borders, Chapters, and a number of independent book stores.
 

buz

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One thing to keep in mind is that, in the event of an emergency, flinging an ereader at someone may hurt more than flinging a paper book at them.

Unless it's a thick hardcover book, or War And Peace or something.

This is why the future of novels is that they will be printed on a broadsword. Mmhmm.

/derail

*imagines a little screen with scrolling text on a broadsword*

...this is even better than your e-readers in bookstores idea. Maybe a little impractical, but who cares. It's awesome.
 

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I don’t think they are. I think a lot of people are buying online more. Even with that said, a lot of the Barnes&Noble stores in my area still get pretty busy in the evenings.

There’s ebooks to take into account too. They’re convenient to read on and buy from. I think that the e-readers may account for some people buying less physical books. However, since it is so easy to read on, I also think it makes it easy for non-readers to discover something they enjoy reading or for ardent readers to discover new authors :) As a result, these new readers may end up buying physical copies of books they are particularly fond of.
 

Silver King

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...I got the impression that there were a hell of a lot of people in here menopausing.
Didn't you mean to say, ...a lot of women in here menopausing?

I can't imagine the condition would apply to any of the males among us.

...I once started a thread where I discussed my thoughts about the difference in writing styles of male and female novel authors. The thread was very popular and attracted a great flow of responses. So a moderator shut down the thread and never explained why, only stating that it was time to “stop this”, or something to that effect. It was still there, you just couldn’t post any more replies.
You either have a faulty memory or are deliberately misleading others: The thread was not popular in the least, nor did it attract a great flow of responses, as you claim. The discussion lasted a mere one hour and sixteen minutes, with a total of fourteen posts before it was closed for obvious reasons.

You can see for yourself here, and I'd recommend that you reread the thread to learn how best to word your posts so that you don't encounter similar problems in the future.

In addition, stop exaggerating the way you've been treated here and acting as if you've been wronged in some way. If anything, you're the one who's been rude, at least in this discussion, while insulting women and any other clear thinking person with your "menopausing" reference.

For your own sake, don't ever lie or exaggerate or disrespect anyone in this room again, or anywhere else on AW. I won't ask that of you again, so please take note of that advice.
 

buz

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Alessandra Kelley

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Print books are still alive and well, I assure you. Brick and mortar book stores are another matter, however. Online shopping is the new thing, and that means that the only stores that have a secure future are department stores like Walmart, and convenience stores like Walgreens. Specialty stores are becoming less common, and book have always been a specialty item. Online shopping is the perfect platform for specialty items though. Any bookstore would burst at the seems trying to cater to everyone's tastes, but Amazon has ALL of the books. I, personally, buy almost all of my books off Amazon.

Add that to the fact that, while the amount of regular readers on the planet compared to a hundred years ago has increased, the actual percentage of readers compared to the population as a whole has decreased.
And, yes, a lot of people read their books on an e-reader these days as well. This cuts into the profit margins of brick and mortar book stores even more.

What it all boils down to is an economy that makes it harder for traditional book stores to stay in business. The ones that get by do it by only carrying the most profitable items. The new stuff, the trending stuff, the books that were made into big movies in the past few years, etc. I never, EVER go into plain old book stores, because I know that there's nothing there that I would be interested in, and even if there is it would be less expensive somewhere else. If I'm not buying books off Amazon or Ebay I'm buying them from a thrift shop.

Basically Walmart is going to enslave us, is what I think I'm trying to say, so...yeah.

Well, now, that's interesting.

I notice you live in Chicago. So do I.

I live within walking distance of no less than six bookstores, only one of which is a chain (Barnes and Noble). The others are all independent bookstores: one academic, one general, two secondhand, and one comics and games bookshop.

The comics shop is only a few years old, but the others have been here for decades. They were here before a humongous Borders got built on a busy neighborhood intersection, and they remain here now that Borders has gone bankrupt and its shiny new building converted into retail and a nightclub.

Granted, it's an academic neighborhood. Nevertheless, my Chicago neighborhood supports five thriving independent bookshops, all independent of the university too (the Barnes and Noble is its "official" bookshop).

And guess what? None of them carry "the most profitable items. The new stuff, the trending stuff, the books that were made into big movies in the past few years." They are all different from each other, but together they carry an eclectic mix of fabulous academic books, scholarly art books, the best children's book department in Chicago, seriously valuable collectible and antiquarian books, just about any of the great books of literature in a used or inexpensive paperback form, fun remaindered books, comic books, gaming books, cookbooks, mysteries, science fiction, and technical manuals.

There are some things that can't be found around here. Most magazines. Novelizations of the latest Hollywood blockbusters. Big, candy-colored TV show character kids' books. Pop religion. All the mainstays of the trendy stores.

And yet somehow our bookstores thrive.
 

Silver King

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I really don't think that makes it better... ;)

You're right, of course. Thank you for pointing that out. What I meant to convey was that he used menopause to apply to "people" in general when what he meant to do was insult women in particular. That's the way I read his post anyway, and I have a pretty good feel for intention most of the time.
 

Caitlin Black

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Actually, my impression of that comment was to try to covertly offend either gender. It works two ways - the implied "woman's problems = irrational" thing as well as the implied "men seeming like women = inferior."

I was offended as a human being, not as either gender.

(Then again, I tend to not give people the benefit of the doubt when they say something incendiary. Call me a hard-arse, but that's just me.)
 

KellyAssauer

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Some historians say the modern printing press with moveable type began in 1454... and if it's true, that means physical books have been around for 559 years.

This digital age provides a new mode of presenting the written book, but it probably won't replace it. We need hard copies. If we don't have them, then 5 years from now when all of the current ereaders can't upgrade to the mandated new OS... someone can go back and scan all the real ones again...

And besides... When's the last time you went into your local computer store, stopped just inside the doorway, and took in a big deep breath of that intoxicating scent...

I'm guessing never?

Didn't you mean to say, ...a lot of women in here menopausing?

SK? Can you explain Cray to me? ;)
 

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As much as I personally love ebooks, I worry about how the digital divide will be a problem.

There are a lot of young people today in various places (including the U.S.) who have little or no real access to digital technology.

If literacy and the spread of literacy is dependent on digital tech, we're creating a serious problem for the near and distant future.
 

mccardey

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I got the impression that there were a hell of a lot of people in here menopausing.

Oh, bless him - isn't he precious? And that whole thread started off so terribly well! (No I'm not going to quote it, but since he keeps referencing it, I imagine it's fair game to talk about it...?)

Where's my popcorn?
 

Booker

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^whatever mccardey said (although not sure whats she talking 'bout)
 

MacAllister

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It's probably about uterus juice. Just, yanno, in s00per-s3Kret woman-code.