ESPN: Gay Player Doesn't Shower With Teammates!

Don

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The only Lisa Olson I know is someone I work with. I suspect you guys aren't talking about her.
I suspect this is the Lisa Olson they are talking about.

Sportswriter Lisa Olson Calls the New England Patriots Out of Bounds for Sexual Harassment
 

rugcat

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sam got cut today when the rams had to get down to their final 53.

if not picked up by another team off the waiver wire, he will likely be offered a spot on the rams practice squad.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08/30/michael-sam-cut-by-rams/
This truly appears to be a football decision, having nothing to do with his sexuality. He clearly has talent, but it looks like the Rams already have lots of talent at that position.

It seems likely there is a team out there who can use him and I'm guessing he will end up on an NFL roster somewhere else.
 

William Haskins

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the patriots could use the depth there.

but even if he merely lands on a practice squad, he's an starting-player-injury away from a roster spot, not to mention a weekly paycheck of over $6k.
 

Fruitbat

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...No one gives a crap, hence some people do walk around naked, or in a towel, or etc., and some people do not, because they choose to be clothed. No one cares who does which.


Athletes at a level even close to this have been in communal shower and locker rooms since, in many cases, before they were even in school. They're used to it...

And yet, if the gay player didn't shower with the rest of them to "give them their space" etc., that suggests that it is an issue. In certain circumstances, anyway.
 
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rwam

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I feel not wanting to shower with anyone at all in public is a fundamentally different position than refusing to shower with a specific subgroup of people based on your personal biases.

If you're not comfortable showering with others because you're shy, then that's very different than homophobia.

With that said, I wouldn't begrudge a male who is uncomfortable showering with anyone (male or female) who is sexually attracted to males.
 

Roxxsmom

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With all the money spent on professional football, would it be so difficult to have cubicles so each footballer can have a bit of privacy?
I was wondering the same thing.

I went to a university where they have special classes just for the football players, and where they built a multimillion dollar athletic center just for them. But they can't have individual shower stalls and dressing kiosks in the locker room?

Not even in the pros?

And anyway, why are big, strong, grown men so uptight about this? I've had friends I've known were lesbian or bisexual since I was in college at least. Actually earlier, now that I think about it. I've never thought twice about sharing rooms, locker rooms, or dorm showering facilities with them, even when they had common dressing areas.

And they have co-ed bathrooms in a lot of college dorms these days.
 
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cornflake

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And yet, if the gay player didn't shower with the rest of them to "give them their space" etc., that suggests that it is an issue. In certain circumstances, anyway.

I was speaking in general.

If that's true, and god knows, because the comments are vague and the question was ridiculous anyway - and I hope whatever producer sent her with that question bought her a drink for having to ask it.

However, it's also not clear to me, if it is true, what would have precipitated that move on his part. It could be other people giving him a side eye, it could be him just wanting to avoid making someone uncomfortable, without even knowing if anyone there would have been made uncomfortable, or some other reason, either more or less nefarious. :Shrug:
 

kuwisdelu

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I went to a university where they have special classes just for the football players, and where they built a multimillion dollar athletic center just for them. But they can't have individual shower stalls and dressing kiosks in the locker room?

Not even in the pros?

But if that happened, how would the straight players engage in their non-threatening homoerotic towel-snapping bonding activities?
 

Fruitbat

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Meh, I really haven't got a clue about the intricacies of sweaty, bulgy athletic men's shower rooms. I'll leave it to the men to 'splain.

Go on then. Tell us all about it. :partyguy:
 

cornflake

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I was wondering the same thing.

I went to a university where they have special classes just for the football players, and where they built a multimillion dollar athletic center just for them. But they can't have individual shower stalls and dressing kiosks in the locker room?

Not even in the pros?

And anyway, why are big, strong, grown men so uptight about this? I've had friends I've known were lesbian or bisexual since I was in college at least. Actually earlier, now that I think about it. I've never thought twice about sharing rooms, locker rooms, or dorm showering facilities with them, even when they had common dressing areas.

And they have co-ed bathrooms in a lot of college dorms these days.

Dressing kiosks? :D

The locker room for a team is not like at a gym, where it's benches between lockers. It's a large, open room, lockers lining the walls.

In many sports, like football and hockey, it's not really possible to dress in a stall-like place, just to begin with. The padding and such is extensive and you need space to put it on and adjust it.

Coaches come in and talk to the team in the locker room - like in movies, except ususally with less hyperbole, though sometimes with actual chair-throwing.

You also need room for the media post-practice and post-game at least.

In addition, equipment people bring in new stuff and dump it on the floor in the room, and set up to measure and let people try stuff on, and etc. It's where everyone can sit and talk and get ready, which is a whole process for many players, and can sit and talk after practice, after games, etc.

We're talking about team sports.

The shower setup depends on the venue; some have curtains, but it's a lot of people and most of the space is devoted to the locker room, trainer's rooms, etc. Taking up that space to put in individual shower stalls when people don't really care would seem wasteful. People can dress in the shower / bathroom area. Shower usually has an anteroom with sinks, etc., or a large bathroom (for many people, with stalls and etc.) adjacent.

No one knows if anyone is actually uptight about it.
 

Roxxsmom

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Well, I've never been a jock, so I'll take your word for it. I figured with all the money pro sports teams have, they could give their players pretty cushy (and private) dressing facilities, and heck, even personal lackeys to help them get their gear on, if it were really important to them, because they were really shy little flowers who were worried that one of their team mates might be ogling them while they dressed or showered. The coach could come in and do the pep talk after they dressed.

After all, once they started having female sports journalists, they found a way to get those locker room interviews without embarrassment (in spite of early claims that this was going to ruin everything).

Anyway, I've never worried whether other women I've had to dress or shower in front of were gay or not. Seems strange that men supposedly spend so much time stressing over this when they're supposed to be the least modest of the genders.

So yeah, it seems more like something the media likes to project on players than something that's necessarily a real thing.
 
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cornflake

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Well, I've never been a jock, so I'll take your word for it. I figured with all the money pro sports teams have, they could give their players pretty cushy (and private) dressing facilities, and heck, even personal lackeys to help them get their gear on, if it were really important to them, because they were really shy little flowers who were worried that one of their team mates might be ogling them while they dressed or showered. The coach could come in and do the pep talk after they dressed.

After all, once they started having female sports journalists, they found a way to get those locker room interviews without embarrassment (in spite of early claims that this was going to ruin everything).

Anyway, I've never worried whether other women I've had to dress or shower in front of were gay or not. Seems strange that men supposedly spend so much time stressing over this when they're supposed to be the least modest of the genders.

So yeah, it seems more like something the media likes to project on players than something that's necessarily a real thing.

That'd take up a ton of space (there's not a real ton of available space in the bowels of arenas, and arenas are used for lots of things, so they can't just take over anything they'd want even if they wanted), and there aren't lackeys to help get dressed, nevermind for everyone(!) nor would anyone really want that I don't think, heh.

The other problem with the space is stuff like the media - if everyone had private dressing rooms, that'd be a big availability problem - and bonding.

Regardless, we don't know anyone had any feelings that he might be ogling them, or why he showers alone, if he even does.

Having female journalists changed nothing about the locker room setup, so I'm not sure what you mean there?
 

Vince524

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Meh, I really haven't got a clue about the intricacies of sweaty, bulgy athletic men's shower rooms. I'll leave it to the men to 'splain.

Go on then. Tell us all about it. :partyguy:

Usually, it's a place for male bonding. To ask questions of your fellow man that you don't feel comfortable asking in front of women. Like, "You ever get that not so fresh feeling?" Or "Does this jock strap make me look fat?"
 

nighttimer

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This truly appears to be a football decision, having nothing to do with his sexuality. He clearly has talent, but it looks like the Rams already have lots of talent at that position.

It seems likely there is a team out there who can use him and I'm guessing he will end up on an NFL roster somewhere else.

the patriots could use the depth there.

but even if he merely lands on a practice squad, he's an starting-player-injury away from a roster spot, not to mention a weekly paycheck of over $6k.

I fully expect Michael Sam to end up on some team's developmental squad. Sam has shown flashes, but just not enough to compensate for the limits in his game that would have relegated him to the last round in the NFL draft even if he hadn't come out and become second only to Johnny Manziel in media scrutiny.

Sam lost out to a guy named Ethan Westbrooks. His story is far from unique, but it's no less a positive he made the Rams final roster.

EARTH CITY, Mo. -- The first thing that sticks out about St. Louis Rams defensive lineman Ethan Westbrooks is the tattoo adorning his face. Westbrooks has plenty of tattoos, but the one on his left cheek, not far below his eye that reads, "Laugh now, Cry later" with a picture of a happy and sad face, is impossible to ignore.

As explanations for facial tattoos go, Westbrooks at least offers something relatively easy to digest. The story goes that Westbrooks was working at a Toys "R" Us in Sacramento while playing football and going to school at Sacramento City Junior College. He didn't like the job and decided when he quit that he had no intention of working a normal job again. So he went searching for a way to push himself to attain that goal. Somehow, he decided there was no better way to do that than to have a reminder staring him in the face every time he looked in the mirror.

"I was just like I might as well go ahead and get it on the face because if nothing else, it will help motivate me to either be a guy that has a tattoo on his face looking for another job or hopefully I make it in the NFL and don’t have to work too hard to do something (else)," Westbrooks said. "I don’t feel it’s a bad thing now. I don’t regret it. It speaks for itself."

While Sam's play has leveled off a bit since the opening days of camp, Westbrooks could be primed to make a statement in the next few weeks. For what it's worth, Westbrooks is well aware that he's standing in the way of one of the league's most compelling stories.

But with a 3-year-old daughter and family to provide for, Westbrooks knows what must be done.

"The whole me-and-Michael Sam thing, I wish him nothing but the best in his endeavors on the football field," Westbrooks said. "He has a competitive spirit, I have a competitive spirit -- what better way to really just boost one another or see what one another is really made of, to have that (competition).
Seems fair to me.
 

William Haskins

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I fully expect Michael Sam to end up on some team's developmental squad. Sam has shown flashes, but just not enough to compensate for the limits in his game that would have relegated him to the last round in the NFL draft even if he hadn't come out and become second only to Johnny Manziel in media scrutiny.

at least he got to sack manziel.

sam's quick and plays with a lot of fire, but he's undersized and that will be a battle he continues to fight.
 

nighttimer

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at least he got to sack manziel.

sam's quick and plays with a lot of fire, but he's undersized and that will be a battle he continues to fight.

He's got an even bigger battle against a far tougher opponent. ESPN.

Michael Sam, the first openly gay player drafted in the NFL, was cut by the Rams on Saturday and passed over by all 31 other teams on waivers on Sunday, and so far he hasn’t even been able to land a spot on a practice squad. So are NFL teams avoiding Sam because he’s gay?

According to one NFL player, the answer to that question is yes — but not because teams are homophobic. Bills center Eric Wood says teams are avoiding Sam because they don’t want the ESPN hype that would come with having Sam, the only openly gay player in football, on the team. In response to a question from Ross Tucker about Sam’s lack of practice squad offers, Wood said ESPN is to blame.

(See Tweets here)

Last week ESPN apologized for a report that quoted an unnamed Rams player as saying that Sam hadn’t showered with teammates in training camp. But even aside from that report, Wood’s view is the most sensible explanation for why Sam remains out of work: NFL teams just don’t like seeing one player singled out for any reason other than his play on the field.
Although there were some questions before this year’s draft about whether Sam would be a good fit in any NFL defense, Sam played well enough in the Rams’ scheme during his four preseason games that it’s surprising the Rams haven’t added him to their practice squad. It’s even more surprising that no other team has picked Sam up. It would be nice if some team had the guts to give Sam the chance he deserves, but Wood may be right that Sam is paying the price for teams being scared of distractions.


Turn on ESPN tonight and Michael Sam's name is featured all over Sportscenter and continually scrolling across the ticket on the bottom of the screen though there is no news to report. Much the same as ESPN has fixated and pimped Brett Favre, Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel, Sam has become the story for the network.


Fox News has Benghazi. MSNBC has Chris Christie's "Bridgegate." CNN has the missing Malaysian flight. ESPN has Sam and Manziel and neither is as big a deal as they've made it to be. ESPN may be contributing to Sam's continued unemployment as none of the 32 teams in the NFL are giving him the time of day.
 

poetinahat

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Male football players use the locker room primarily as a socially acceptable venue for surreptitiously comparing penises, which makes it possible to carve out intra-team dominance hierarchies. "Leadership qualities" has long been regarded as empty sportswriter-speak — as in "Suchnsuch McFootball-Player really displays strong leadership qualities" — but it's really a euphemism for penis size.
I'd ask for a link to back up this assertion, but, well, no.
 

robeiae

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Fox News has Benghazi. MSNBC has Chris Christie's "Bridgegate." CNN has the missing Malaysian flight. ESPN has Sam and Manziel and neither is as big a deal as they've made it to be. ESPN may be contributing to Sam's continued unemployment as none of the 32 teams in the NFL are giving him the time of day.
In fairness, both the MSNBC and CNN websites have Sam stories at the top of their home pages right now, as well. FoxNews seems more concerned with Tony Stewart.
 

nighttimer

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In fairness, both the MSNBC and CNN websites have Sam stories at the top of their home pages right now, as well. FoxNews seems more concerned with Tony Stewart.

What I meant was the propensity of networks to fixate to the point of obsession on certain stories and personalities and then provide saturation coverage of it as if nothing else matters. ESPN has become the clearinghouse for All Things Michael Sam and its become a detriment to his stated mission of trying to make an NFL roster.

Sam was only one of hundreds of young men whose summer job in the NFL ended last Saturday. Yes, he's a gay man, but that doesn't make him the only game in town. Many of those other cut players have stories to tell as compelling as Sam and doubtlessly, some of them were gay men too.

Whether he intended it or not, Sam has become a distraction and despite playing relatively well for the Rams, none of the other 31 teams seem interested in his services. That's odd and it may even be discriminatory, but when you have ESPN trolling your locker room for the down n' dirty details of Sam's shower habits, who needs that bullshit?
 

robeiae

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What I meant was the propensity of networks to fixate to the point of obsession on certain stories and personalities and then provide saturation coverage of it as if nothing else matters. ESPN has become the clearinghouse for All Things Michael Sam and its become a detriment to his stated mission of trying to make an NFL roster.

Sam was only one of hundreds of young men whose summer job in the NFL ended last Saturday. Yes, he's a gay man, but that doesn't make him the only game in town. Many of those other cut players have stories to tell as compelling as Sam and doubtlessly, some of them were gay men too.

Whether he intended it or not, Sam has become a distraction and despite playing relatively well for the Rams, none of the other 31 teams seem interested in his services. That's odd and it may even be discriminatory, but when you have ESPN trolling your locker room for the down n' dirty details of Sam's shower habits, who needs that bullshit?
Oh, I agree with you completely. Sam needs to be allowed to go about his business. He's just one of many cut players now looking for an opportunity to play somewhere else. And ESPN is running down "stories" about him for no real good reason, whatsoever.

I just thought it was interesting that CNN and MSNBC are taking the bait being dished out by ESPN, are helping to keep Sam's situation in the public eye also for no real good reason that I can see, other than the belief that people want to know. At CNN, the Sam story is in the "Editor's picks."

At the same time, the FoxNews website isn't highlighting it at all, instead hanging on to another old story: that of Tony Stewart. Maybe they all think they're playing to their base?
 

nighttimer

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Looks like Michael Sam might yet be gainfully employed in the NFL, and where else?

The Cowboys plan to bring in Sam for a physical and sign him to the practice squad if he passes, according to Adam Schefter of ESPN. Ian Rapoport of NFL Network reports that the Cowboys spent time today calling players to gauge their reaction to signing Sam. Apparently the reaction was what it should have been: If he can help the team, he should be signed. The Cowboys think having Sam on the practice squad could help.

There’s been much talk since the Rams cut Sam that teams are avoiding him because they don’t want the attention of having the NFL’s first openly gay player on their roster. But in the case of the Cowboys — where owner Jerry Jones thinks there’s no such thing as bad publicity — if anything Sam’s status as the NFL’s highest-profile practice-squad player may be a bonus.

A seventh-round draft pick out of Missouri who was the SEC’s defensive player of the year last year, Sam had a good preseason but wasn’t able to crack the 53-man roster in St. Louis. In Dallas, where the Cowboys are in desperate need of help on defense, it wouldn’t be surprising to see him eventually get added to the active roster. Dallas looks like a good fit for Sam.