Girl Beaten on Playground

TerzaRima said:

Forty quatloos says the mom did it.

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I'm not sure how she could have. The article quoted the district as saying the child was injured at the school and the mom was called...

A student was injured while playing on the playground at Arlington Elementary School Tuesday afternoon. School officials responded to the situation. The parent was contacted and the student received medical treatment.

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Cyia said:

The only questionable detail I've seen is that the girl's eyes are clear white. I'm no doctor, but I've also never seen a black eye that severe without discoloration of the eye. I can't figure out how that happened.

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For what it's worth, I had a concussion a while back. I dinged the outside of my orbital socket. All of the bruising immediately drained into the soft tissue around my eye and stayed there forever, but the eye was never discolored.

(And I'm not going to jump on Mom for asking for money, either. They're talking some serious diagnostics for her daughter. Right now, her priorities may be getting her kidlet medical attention, and then figuring out what to do legally. Any doctor examining her is going to ask questions about how she ended up in the shape she's in.)

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The article mentions the girl will need multiple CT scans. My doctor made me get multiple scans, too. Apparently, you can have a "slow bleed" that might not show up on the first scan. I had to do lots of follow up, and my injury wasn't nearly as bad as hers looks.

Also, every doctor I saw asked me tons of questions about how it happened.

Devil Ledbetter said:

All I have to add is that I hate the spineless approach schools take to these incidents with "If a teacher didn't see it, it didn't happen. We can't possibly know for sure who did it or what happened, so we can't do anything about it."

Unless not a single other person saw it, including the victim, the school knows damned well who did this. Really what "a teacher didn't see it" translates to is "We believe all of our students are liars, and can only respond to an attack if it was witnessed by a teacher."

ETA: as far as the school having cameras on everything so they can "know" what happened, just, no. What needs to change is they need to start treating their students as credible human beings. It's one thing if you have a kid who's prone to lying, quite another if you've got one or more credible kids reporting what happened. The whole angle of "A teacher needed to see it! It must be on film to have happened" is complete garbage, IMO.

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So what you're saying is that teachers should blame particular students based on what they THINK happened?

You're saying that we should abandon any consideration of law - start convicting people based purely on speculation - no proof required?

What a "teacher didn't see it" translates to is I'm NOT going to accuse someone if I didn't see them do it. It doesn't make any damn difference whether I THINK little Johnny did it or not.

Bullies get busted frequently in school settings. You only hear about it when someone gets hurt/bullied and no one can prove it.

Larry M said:

So what you're saying is that teachers should blame particular students based on what they THINK happened?

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That's not what she said at all.

Devil Ledbetter said:

What needs to change is they need to start treating their students as credible human beings.

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When you say:

You're saying that we should abandon any consideration of law - start convicting people based purely on speculation - no proof required?

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I'm pretty sure people get convicted all the time, based on multiple eye-witness accounts, by juries made up of people who didn't see it happen. Children can be witnesses.

(As an aside, I think dismissing children from being witnesses in cases of school bullying is a great way to teach them that they have no voice.)

Devil Ledbetter said:

Unless not a single other person saw it, including the victim, the school knows damned well who did this.

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heza said:

That's not what she said at all.

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Yes, that is exactly what she said.

heza said:

When you say:

I'm pretty sure people get convicted all the time, based on multiple eye-witness accounts, by juries made up of people who didn't see it happen. Children can be witnesses.

(As an aside, I think dismissing children from being witnesses in cases of school bullying is a great way to teach them that they have no voice.)

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Never said anything about children as witnesses. Children are interviewed in such instances and if their version is credible, action is taken.

Larry M said:

Yes, that is exactly what she said.

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Um... I can't parse what you're saying, given what you're quoting. I felt like Devil is saying that if someone else saw it, then there would be witnesses; therefore, the teachers would know who did it... emphasizing that there were very likely witnesses... so I don't see how she's suggesting that the teachers should guess at who did it, especially considering you've said if there were children as witnesses, then that should be taken into account.

I felt like Devil was arguing that there were children witnesses but they're being discounted... therefore, no witnesses, nothing we can do about it!

Never said anything about children as witnesses. Children are interviewed in such instances and if their version is credible, action is taken.

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I know you didn't. Devil did, though.

heza said:

Um... I can't parse what you're saying, given what you're quoting. I felt like Devil is saying that if someone else saw it, then there would be witnesses; therefore, the teachers would know who did it... emphasizing that there were very likely witnesses... so I don't see how she's suggesting that the teachers should guess at who did it, especially considering you've said if there were children as witnesses, then that should be taken into account.

I felt like Devil was arguing that there were children witnesses but they're being discounted... therefore, no witnesses, nothing we can do about it!

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Precisely.

If there were no witnesses, fine, then nobody knows what happened. But if the victim or other children know who is to blame, the school has no right to withhold consequences based on But but but a teacher never saw it!

If a student or two who report what happened there is no "guesswork" on the part of teachers or administration -- unless the students are reporting widely different versions of events.

Well, if there were only two witnesses with a playground fight, there is a big possibility that they were the two who did it, or are close friends, is the only problem.

Every time my sister and I got bullied, it was from a little group of neighborhood boys who always all said that nothing happened, darnit. Their parents never did believe that they did anything wrong. (But I finally punched one of them in the face and it got worked out that way).

Something sounds very off here. I did not realize the police could get a report and see a small child whose face looks like that and even have the option to "not investigate."

Also, just to note, I believe it was the mother who reported that the school told her they couldn't be bothered with it because no teachers saw it, not the school. The school didn't admit to that, or I didn't see it if they did. Their statement said "No other children were involved." That sounds like they're saying the incident didn't happen the way the mother said it did, not that the children were unsupervised or that the school doesn't trust student accounts of it.

Something here just doesn't add up, that's for sure.

My comments were based on this quote from the article linked in the OP:

“AvaLynn informed Lacey that she was assaulted by another student: that she was kicked repeatedly in the face until she fell off of the slide on the school’s playground. The school informed Lacey were no teachers present when the incident occurred, and because of that, no one could prove whether or not another student had harmed Ava.”

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According to the mother at least, AvaLynn reported being assaulted by another student and the school dismissed the incident based on the fact that no teachers were present to witness it.

So it looks like the victim's report that she was kicked, and possibly by whom, are not credible to the school, and the only possible credible witness, in the school administration's mind, could be a teacher. AvaLynn's assertion that she was kicked was not credible to the school. Only a witnessing teacher is credible.

That is horrible!

Yeah, it could very well be just that, Devil. I notice the way some of these news stories are worded, you can't tell for sure who said what. I mean who is "the school," and then "who said" that "the school" said x,y,z, right? And then it could have just been an off-hand comment by a receptionist, etc. who really didn't know what she was talking about, but to the parent, that person represents "the school."

Or when I think about it, I guess it could also be that nobody did anything wrong and it's just an accident followed by a misunderstanding: Say, child jumps up on playground and runs straight into pole, or falls face first on the edge of a slide, or etc. and gets nasty bruises. Either an adult did see it or the child and/or other kids explained and there was no dispute about what happened. Then the mother picks her child up and unintentionally asks leading question, like "Who did that?" Confused small child tries to answer and in doing so, names someone or it gets more off base as her upset mother unintentionally asks more leading questions and...

It will be interesting to see how this one turns out.

I don't think it's been established for sure that the children weren't being watched. As I said, from what I read that seems to be the mother's account but the school didn't say that. And even then, if you've ever been a teacher, your eyes simply can't be everywhere at every second. It could be an adult didn't see it at the very second it happened, but that doesn't mean no adult was present or that they were negligent. Or, yeah, it could be they really were left unsupervised. :/

Another possibility is that the attack (if there was one) was witnessed by a teacher or playground aide, but the witnessing adult is not coming forward for fear of being blamed/sued/fired and so on for not intervening in time.

That child is really badly injured. Any adult who admits to witnessing it would have a lot to answer for.

Oh yeah. If someone was goofing off on the job for a few minutes, they'd have hell to pay for it now!

With so many news stories (I'm thinking about the Patrick McLaw thing right now) I really don't understand why schools, police departments, etcetera don't come out and make a clear statement to the press that the matter is being investigated and for people to keep in mind that until that's completed, it's all speculation. I mean, they do have legal departments and usually send out some kind of statement anyway (I think?). As it is, everyone else can say anything they want but the school, etc. has to keep pretty well quiet. That often presents a skewed picture to the public. I mean, do they really not care what public opinion of them is at all?

heza said:

Um... I can't parse what you're saying, given what you're quoting. I felt like Devil is saying that if someone else saw it, then there would be witnesses; therefore, the teachers would know who did it... emphasizing that there were very likely witnesses... so I don't see how she's suggesting that the teachers should guess at who did it, especially considering you've said if there were children as witnesses, then that should be taken into account.

I felt like Devil was arguing that there were children witnesses but they're being discounted... therefore, no witnesses, nothing we can do about it!

I know you didn't. Devil did, though.

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I see what you're saying - I stand corrected.

Devil Ledbetter said:

Precisely.

If there were no witnesses, fine, then nobody knows what happened. But if the victim or other children know who is to blame, the school has no right to withhold consequences based on But but but a teacher never saw it!

If a student or two who report what happened there is no "guesswork" on the part of teachers or administration -- unless the students are reporting widely different versions of events.

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Agreed.

Forty quatloos says the mom did it.

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I'm not sure how she could have. The article quoted the district as saying the child was injured at the school and the mom was called...

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The article--if you can call it that--never says that. Who produces that site anyway, Illiterates Anonymous? Between "beat up so bad" and the random use of quotation marks, I thought I'd stumbled on a 50 Shades of Grey fan site.

TerzaRima said:

The article--if you can call it that--never says that. Who produces that site anyway, Illiterates Anonymous? Between "beat up so bad" and the random use of quotation marks, I thought I'd stumbled on a 50 Shades of Grey fan site.

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I'm interpreting that it does. If someone wants to tell me why I can't assume that (other than the fact that it turns out we can't really trust reporters anymore) from what's quoted in the article, I'd appreciate the lesson....

But here's where I'm getting my info:

The Pascagoula School District issued this statement about the incident:


“A student was injured while playing on the playground at Arlington Elementary School Tuesday afternoon.School officials responded to the situation. The parent was contacted and the student received medical treatment. No other children were involved in the incident. The Pascagoula School District remains committed to the safety of all its students.”

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Chasing the links in the OP I found this blog which had the original story that's in the OP and an update which was that there were indeed four adults present on the playground at the time of the incident.



Pascagoula School District: AvaLynn fell from Arlington Elementary playground equipment, 4 adults present at time

http://blog.gulflive.com/mississipp...hool_district_ava.html#incart_related_stories

Here's an update. Apparently the mother's report to the police was that another kindergartener had kicked the little girl. Even if it that was what happened, a small child kicking another small child is not considered a criminal matter. So that's why the police didn't investigate.

Also, a welfare concern investigation was launched over the weekend, and the Dept. of Human Services was involved.

In other words, CPS was called on the mother?

http://www.local12.com/news/feature...k-fire-over-injured-kindergartner-17192.shtml

Fruitbat said:

Even if it that was what happened, a small child kicking another small child is not considered a criminal matter. So that's why the police didn't investigate.

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It isn't?

I wish I'd known that when I was a small child.

I would have kicked so many kids while I still had immunity....

That's okay, Kuwi. You can still call them names and make faces at them!

I read a couple of other articles and now I'm confused. The police said they weren't going to investigate but then they investigated. And maybe the "welfare concern investigation" was about this incident and not "directed at" the mother. I dunno...

At one school where I worked, the teachers were required to stand at various points at the playground so that every area was in somebody's view. At all other schools, it was certainly standard practice. You might miss a child falling from a swing (or only see the tail end of it). You certainly don't miss an active fight, especially will all the yelling and crying that comes with it, if you've got a proper number of teachers stationed evenly across the play area and they're all doing their job and paying attention.

I agree that if the injuries are the result of another child attacking her on the playground and still no teacher saw it, the school is doing something horribly wrong and should be held responsible for that. A fight should never, ever get that far before a teacher intervenes, let alone be finished with the teacher never noticing it took place.

I agree, Katrina. I was a teacher and you just don't miss something like a fight or a fall and the crying and other children gathered around that it brings on, if you're anywhere near the children.

I can't make heads or tails out of what probably happened here, personally. Either the children weren't being supervised appropriately and the school doesn't want to take responsibility (or whoever was supposed to be watching them is covering for her/himself, as someone mentioned earlier). Or else it was a simple accident, which can happen so fast no one can stop it. And the mother then misunderstood, or... worse.