ISIS

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
Many of our countries are now arming the Kurds, in a combined effort. I read it last night. Let me grab a link (I have a headache).

eta:

SYDNEY: Australia said on Sunday (Aug 31) it would help the United States in an international effort to transport weapons to Kurdish forces fighting Islamic State militants in Iraq. "The United States government has requested that Australia help to transport stores of military equipment, including arms and munitions, as part of a multi-nation effort," Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said in a statement.
"Royal Australian Air Force C-130 Hercules and C-17 Globemaster aircraft will join aircraft from other nations including Canada, Italy, France, the United Kingdom and the United States to conduct this important task."

He added that the delivery by Australia of arms and munitions "from Eastern Bloc countries" to the Kurdish peshmerga would take place "in the coming days", and in their case would involve handovers on the ground rather than airdrops. "We want to make sure that we know where the arms and the munitions go when we deliver, so at this stage there won't be a drop. We'll be landing and handing them over to officials from the peshmerga," Air Marshal Binskin said.
Albania, Croatia and Denmark have also committed to providing Kurdish forces with arms and equipment, the US said on Wednesday. Abbott said there was a "humanitarian catastrophe" in Iraq and Australia was working with other countries to alleviate it and "address the security threat posed by ISIL".

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/australia-to-join-us-in/1338386.html
 
Last edited:

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
Germany, too, which is unusual:

Germany is breaking with its own post World War Two policy and sending weapons to a conflict zone.
It is to arm Kurdish fighters who are battling Islamic extremists in Iraq....


...“We are closely coordination these measures with our partners, so there is no separate German path. We are coordinating precisely where the Peshmergas are lacking equipment and who is sending what from the international community,” announced German Defence Minister Ursula Von Der Leyen....


...

The type of weapons being sent will include armour-piercing weapons such as anti-tank rockets and thousands of assault rifles and grenades.
The equipment, which will be delivered in three stages, has been taken out of German army reserves at a value of 70 million euros....

http://www.euronews.com/2014/09/01/...oo-by-arming-kurds-against-islamists-in-iraq/
 

c.e.lawson

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
3,640
Reaction score
1,286
Location
A beach town near Los Angeles
I've been troubled by the president's apparent lack of leadership here. But I"m a republican. However, when Al Franken writes a letter to the Attorney General Holder expressing concern about the President's lack of a strategy,
I was troubled by the President's recent suggestion that the Administration has not yet developed a comprehensive strategy to address the growing threat of ISIL's activities in Syria.

Full letter here: http://www.franken.senate.gov/files/letter/140903DOJISIL.pdf

then more alarm bells start ringing.

There's also a story by Catherine Herridge on Fox News, that the President has received a great deal of detailed information on ISIS and Syria over at least the past year in his PDB's (President's Daily Briefing).

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...tailed-intelligence-about-rise-isis-for-year/

The president's team has publicly suggested that the group only recently gained in strength, accounting for why Obama earlier this year dismissed such extremists as akin to a "JV" team.

But after suggestions that the administration may have been blindsided by the rise of ISIS, and that poor intelligence was to blame, the former Pentagon official said some of the intelligence was so good in the region, that when the president drew a red line on chemical weapons use in Syria in 2012, the information was "exquisite."

The source said "[we] were ready to fire, on a moment's notice, on a couple hundred targets," but no order was given. In some cases, targets were tracked for a "long period of time" but then slipped away.

*more alarm bells*
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
You'll notice, though, that there's an entire coalition formed to arm the Kurds, airstrikes continue, aid drops continue, and 350 more US troops were just authorized in by the president (so we have over 800 in there now). And the military help has been working.

So the announced lack of a strategy may not quite fit what The US has been more quietly putting through. I guess being called too much of a dove or a bumbling idiot helps thwart criticisms like being compared to George Bush and out for blood? I could see the appeal of downplaying things, certainly.
 
Last edited:

raburrell

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
6,902
Reaction score
3,781
Age
50
Location
MA
Website
www.rebeccaburrell.com
Apologies in advance for what's sure to be a bit of a free-wheeling post.

There was stuff in Western media about ISIS roughly 10 months to a year ago - I don't have a direct cite, but I have a mention of them in a book I wrote in that time frame which is set in Syria. Wasn't much, just a paragraph naming them as the 'bad boys' of all the various fighter-factions in Syria. With the recent attention, I struck out trying to dig up the original article I read back then, but my recollection is that that was generally the sense of ISIS at the time - they were the ones you really didn't want to run into at a checkpoint, along with another group called Mahajeroun. [In the early days of the war, the FSA (Free Syrian Army) controlled most of them, but that started to change when foreign fighters started pouring in.] Bear with me for a sec, because the checkpoints are key.

He who controls the checkpoints controls the roads. He who controls the roads controls the territory. When there are few passable roads, whether by virtue of sparse population or damage in the war, it is indeed possible to pick up territory very quickly, especially if, as is the case with Assad's civil war, the dominant force chooses to pick its battle elsewhere. If you look at maps of the territories ISIS controls, they're very much concentrated along roadways, etc, and they've made inroads into small cities from there. The fearsome reputation they've cultivated minimizes resistance, and the fact that many Sunnis saw them (at least initially) as having aligned goals meant this has really been somewhat of a fortuitous, if well-planned cake walk for them.

Bottom line, I don't conceptually see anything false in the narrative being presented by the White House, that ISIS rose very quickly, based on my sense of things.
 

Diana Hignutt

Very Tired
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
13,321
Reaction score
7,113
Location
Albany, NY
You'll notice, though, that there's an entire coalition formed to arm the Kurds, airstrikes continue, aid drops continue, and 350 more US troops were just authorized in by the president (so we have over 800 in there now). And the military help has been working.

So the announced lack of a strategy may not quite fit what The US has been more quietly putting through. I guess being called too much of a dove or a bumbling idiot helps thwart criticisms like being compared to George Bush and out for blood? I could see the appeal of downplaying things, certainly.

I understand that the all-female brigade that the Kurds have (and are moving to the front lines) strikes terror into the hearts of ISIS, as being killed (even on the battlefield) by a woman sends one directly to hell. (I'll be back with a link) I say, put some bacon in their bullets, bacon shrapnel bombs, and we'll see how many martyrs are willing to go to hell for the imaginary caliphate.

ETA: It's Fox News, sorry: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/09/02/isis-fighters-terrified-death-at-hands-female-pkk-warriors/
 
Last edited:

raburrell

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
6,902
Reaction score
3,781
Age
50
Location
MA
Website
www.rebeccaburrell.com
Sadly, the female fighter thing is untrue:

The "ISIS is afraid of female fighters" theory comes from a stray quote in a Wall Street Journal piece about Kurdish advances against ISIS. It quotes a female Kurdish soldier as saying "the jihadists don't like fighting women, because if they're killed by a female, they think they won't go to heaven." Note that it's not an ISIS fighter, a scholar, or necessarily someone who's interrogated an ISIS fighter: just a random Kurdish soldier, who may not be super-familiar with ISIS's ideology.
even more depressing:
What we actually know about ISIS's approach to women, however, paints a rather different picture. ISIS has all-female battalions, called "al-Khansaa" and "Umm al-Rayan," that operate in Syria. ISIS female fighters wear full burqas and carry rifles; they exist to force other women to comply with ISIS's vision of sharia law. "ISIS created [them] to terrorize women," Abu al-Hamza, a local, media activist, said in an interview with Syria Deeply.
Way to fight for the sisterhood there, ladies. :rant:
 

c.e.lawson

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
3,640
Reaction score
1,286
Location
A beach town near Los Angeles
This just in:

https://twitter.com/beirutreporter/status/507515572662575104

Report that ISIS leader Baghdadi was just killed in an airstrike.

I've been waiting to see some confirmation of this. Still haven't. But NBC just posted something with more information.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/is...eader-among-3-killed-u-s-strike-iraqi-n195601
Three senior members of the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) - including an aide to its leader - were killed in a U.S. airstrike in Iraq, a senior Iraqi security official told NBC News Thursday. The strike on the ISIS stronghold of Mosul killed Abu Hajar Al-Sufi, an aide to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, as well as an explosives operative and the military leader of nearby Tel Afar, the source said on condition of anonymity. Al Arabiya cited the Iraqi Defense Ministry saying Baghdadi's aide had been killed.

This has not yet been confirmed by the Pentagon.
 

raburrell

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
6,902
Reaction score
3,781
Age
50
Location
MA
Website
www.rebeccaburrell.com
Yeah, so far I'm only seeing confirmation that al Baghdadi's aide was killed, not him. Guess we'll have to wait and see. If it's true, couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

For a coin-flip perspective to the Fox article above, including comments from dueling intelligence sources on the issue of whether ISIS is a serious threat:
eta: http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/can-we-shed-bush-baggage-to-confront-isis-20140904
What you're seeing right now is a weird combination of hawks, who legitimately want military action, and people who are indifferent to war but who are otherwise critical of Obama. And this coalition is drumming up support for a war that, like Iraq in 2003, is not underpinned by strong intelligence.

The criticism of Obama's leadership is, on this issue, a head fake. You're a Civil War guy. You know who was a strong decisive leader? General Burnside. He led the charge into Fredericksburg and it was a catastrophe. But nobody criticized his ability to lead.

This isn't the only reader who suspects my columns are a head fake, which means I haven't made myself clear. First, the commander in chief is already fighting: More than 120 airstrikes against the Islamic State is war. Second, I honestly don't know precisely what other action is required, and welcome the president's deliberative approach to figuring that out. My criticism is based on rhetoric that suggests that Obama may not be taking ISIS seriously enough, and that creates a dangerous perception that he is fumbling, indecisive, and weak. Perceptions matter—although not as much as what, in the end, Obama actually does. I wish I had more faith in the intelligence community. My reader friend says he's been assured ISIS is not an immediate threat.

The article also quotes a second source:
From a second reader, a keen observer of American power, comes a different perspective: Unlike Bush's folly in Iraq, this may be a necessary fight.

I think that Obama is cautious because he lives in a nation where everyone is absolutely certain they have the moral high ground, so to appeal to his constituency he tries to come across as adult, centrist and wise in the "I'm seeing all sides" sense.

The problem is, the Islamic State is not a seeing-all-sides kind of moment. It's not Hamas. It's not the Iranian clerics. It's not the madrassas of Pakistan. I do not believe much is pure evil, but I believe that ISIS comes quite close. This is one of those times when America absolutely needs to be the moral compass. The problem is, America has shot its moral-compass load in the past 15 years with Abu Ghraib and waterboarding and Guantanamo and the Patriot Act and NSA wiretaps, so it's harder for Obama to be That Guy than it used to be pre-Bush.

Fournier closes with:
A columnist should never admit uncertainty, but here's mine: I'm not ready to side with the hawks or the doves. These readers remind me that the problems in the Middle East (not to mention Ukraine) are layered, and that all Americans share responsibility with Obama. We need to know more. We need to listen to each other, and learn from one another. We need to hear Obama's strategy. For now, I just hope.
 
Last edited:

c.e.lawson

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
3,640
Reaction score
1,286
Location
A beach town near Los Angeles
Do you have a link to that article, rab?

I don't think everyone criticizing Obama wants to run in with guns blazing. We want him to articulate a more solid idea of what we are going to do about this, and we want some reassurance that the administration is on top of things instead of underestimating the threat and playing catch up. Apparently many higher ups have felt for some time that there is adequate intelligence and adequate threat to at least have some sort of outline of strategy. Either we truly don't have one, or Obama wants to lay low with it for a while, or he's mis-communicating. I hope it's not the first of those. I can live with the other two. :)
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
Do you have a link to that article, rab?

I don't think everyone criticizing Obama wants to run in with guns blazing. We want him to articulate a more solid idea of what we are going to do about this, and we want some reassurance that the administration is on top of things instead of underestimating the threat and playing catch up. Apparently many higher ups have felt for some time that there is adequate intelligence and adequate threat to at least have some sort of outline of strategy. Either we truly don't have one, or Obama wants to lay low with it for a while, or he's mis-communicating. I hope it's not the first of those. I can live with the other two. :)

He could be attending a 2-day NATO summit in Europe and that might be helpful, for instance, eh? ;)
 

mkanfl

Registered
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Location
North Florida
Military corporations make millions on overseas wars and they give thousands to politicians who support those wars. Conservatives fail to recognise the war-hawk's manipulations just like liberals fail to recognise welfare manipulations.
 

raburrell

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
6,902
Reaction score
3,781
Age
50
Location
MA
Website
www.rebeccaburrell.com
Do you have a link to that article, rab?
Doh sorry - I added it above, but here: http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/can-we-shed-bush-baggage-to-confront-isis-20140904
I don't think everyone criticizing Obama wants to run in with guns blazing. We want him to articulate a more solid idea of what we are going to do about this, and we want some reassurance that the administration is on top of things instead of underestimating the threat and playing catch up. Apparently many higher ups have felt for some time that there is adequate intelligence and adequate threat to at least have some sort of outline of strategy. Either we truly don't have one, or Obama wants to lay low with it for a while, or he's mis-communicating. I hope it's not the first of those. I can live with the other two. :)
I'm suspicious of anonymous intelligence people leaking to the press in general - it's often more their own agenda they're leaking than any actual assessment. (The dueling scenarios in the last few posts are a pretty good indication of that). My sense is that, basically, Obama understands how critical it is to get this 'right', insofar as such a thing is ever possible with this whole clusterfuck over there. As I said a page or two back, I don't think his outward messaging has been stellar, but his actions, so far, I approve. I'm hoping that'll continue.
 

William Haskins

poet
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
29,114
Reaction score
8,867
Age
58
Website
www.poisonpen.net
zizek(!) weighs in...

the world's sexiest marxist is on the case. it's got it all... nietzsche's last man, yeats and grotesque orgies...

love this guy...

ISIS Is a Disgrace to True Fundamentalism


http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/isis-is-a-disgrace-to-true-fundamentalism/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1&
 

Synonym

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
24,038
Reaction score
4,491
Location
Kansahoma
"Deep in themselves, terrorist fundamentalists also lack true conviction — their violent outbursts are a proof of it. How fragile the belief of a Muslim must be if he feels threatened by a stupid caricature in a low-circulation Danish newspaper. The fundamentalist Islamic terror is not grounded in the terrorists’ conviction of their superiority and in their desire to safeguard their cultural-religious identity from the onslaught of global consumerist civilization."

Zizek certainly has a different way of looking at this. Although I don't exactly grasp everything he's referring to, it clarifies a few ideas that I've been struggling with.

These fundamentalists seem more interested in seizing, destroying, and going out in a blaze of glory. There appears to be no thought beyond grabbing as much of whatever they can, however they can, and hiding behind religion to justify their action.

They are not nation building. They are akin to frustrated children tearing up another child's belongings, because they are sick with envy at not having those things. Except of course, they are adults, with grown-up strength, weapons, and sickly devious minds. I'm at a loss at how you deal with this sort of perversity, short of bombing them back into the stone age. At the very least, the other Muslim countries need to step up and figure out a way to show they aren't willing to allow this to continue unchecked.

Putin is a fine example of the opposite. He is nation building. He's hoping to be revered through the ages as the man that rebuilt his nation. Now, that I can understand and wrap my brain around. I don't approve, as now we're stumbling around trying to figure out how to uphold the treaty that we signed with Ukraine, in order to get them to disarm.

Nature abhors a vacuum. When the US starts hinting that they don't want to be the world's enforcer any longer, someone else is going to step in to take advantage of the vacancy. While this may not be an official stance, it's certainly been the tone for the last few years. Again, I get that too. People are tired of wasting money, time, and lives in the Middle East. Especially when it seems that picking who to back is like choosing the least poisonous snake, in a pit of vipers.

Instead of saying that we have no strategy, Obama probably should have blustered with the best of them. Political doublespeak about contingency plans, gathering intelligence, and upcoming meetings with the Joint Chiefs--lots of that kind of stuff. I'm convinced that half the war is won in diplomacy by bluster, the projection of conviction, and instilling that tiny doubt that we might just be crazy enough to do something.
 
Last edited:

c.e.lawson

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
3,640
Reaction score
1,286
Location
A beach town near Los Angeles
"Deep in themselves, terrorist fundamentalists also lack true conviction — their violent outbursts are a proof of it. How fragile the belief of a Muslim must be if he feels threatened by a stupid caricature in a low-circulation Danish newspaper. The fundamentalist Islamic terror is not grounded in the terrorists’ conviction of their superiority and in their desire to safeguard their cultural-religious identity from the onslaught of global consumerist civilization."

Zizek certainly has a different way of looking at this. Although I don't exactly grasp everything he's referring to, it clarifies a few ideas that I've been struggling with.

These fundamentalists seem more interested in seizing, destroying, and going out in a blaze of glory. There appears to be no thought beyond grabbing as much of whatever they can, however they can, and hiding behind religion to justify their action.

They are not nation building. They are akin to frustrated children tearing up another child's belongings, because they are sick with envy at not having those things. Except of course, they are adults, with grown-up strength, weapons, and sickly devious minds. I'm at a loss at how you deal with this sort of perversity, short of bombing them back into the stone age. At the very least, the other Muslim countries need to step up and figure out a way to show they aren't willing to allow this to continue unchecked.

Putin is a fine example of the opposite. He is nation building. He's hoping to be revered through the ages as the man that rebuilt his nation. Now, that I can understand and wrap my brain around. I don't approve, as now we're stumbling around trying to figure out how to uphold the treaty that we signed with Ukraine, in order to get them to disarm.

Nature abhors a vacuum. When the US starts hinting that they don't want to be the world's enforcer any longer, someone else is going to step in to take advantage of the vacancy. While this may not be an official stance, it's certainly been the tone for the last few years. Again, I get that too. People are tired of wasting money, time, and lives in the Middle East. Especially when it seems that picking who to back is like choosing the least poisonous snake, in a pit of vipers.

Instead of saying that we have no strategy, Obama probably should have blustered with the best of them. Political doublespeak about contingency plans, gathering intelligence, and upcoming meetings with the Joint Chiefs--lots of that kind of stuff. I'm convinced that half the war is won in diplomacy by bluster, the projection of conviction, and instilling that tiny doubt that we might just be crazy enough to do something.

Actually, they (ISIS) ARE nation-building. See this BBC article from way back on July 1.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28116846

The leader of jihadist militant group Isis has called on Muslims to travel to Iraq and Syria to help build an Islamic state, in an audio message.

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi called on Muslims to immigrate to the "Islamic State", saying it was a duty.

He made a "special call" for judges, doctors, engineers and people with military and administrative expertise.

Isis says it is forming an Islamic state, or caliphate, on the territories it controls in Iraq and Syria.
They are paying soldiers, they are running schools and hospitals and entrenching themselves in communities. See this article:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/entrenched-isis-syria/story?id=25180817

Haian Dukhan: The group is very well entrenched within local communities in Syria. They're running schools and hospitals in ways that are similar to a state. They're even paying salaries to the fighters, taking into consideration that a fighter might have kids to support. So a single fighter would get $400 per month, and then a fighter who's a father would get an additional $100 per child, which attracts more fighters to join – it gives them a way to provide for their families back home, and makes it ok for them to leave those families behind.

Again, that's why Obama's rhetoric scares me -- it still seems to underestimate this movement. They are more than a just bunch of violent crazies with an "empty vision".
 

Synonym

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
24,038
Reaction score
4,491
Location
Kansahoma
c.e., I suppose my definition of nation building is completely at odds with theirs. (Especially when it involves selective annihilation of the current residents.) I suspect, but this is only a guess, that the schools cater to supporters, as do the hospitals. If you're lucky enough to be of the 'right' branch of religion, this is probably a matter of the new boss isn't any better than the old one. If you're not, well, you're dead so you can't complain?

Certainly, they aren't the Junior Varsity. (That's probably something that he wishes he could take back.) They're out-fundamentalizing the fundamentalist extremists, for a fact.
 

mccardey

Self-Ban
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
19,308
Reaction score
16,021
Location
Australia.
Interesting article here On the lack of a concerted Muslim response
While their leaders have been eager to rummage around in the Syrian and Iraqi conflicts, backing different factions according to their beliefs, we're left to wonder if there's a bit of rat cunning at work in the difficulty they seem to have in getting up to the mark to confront Islamic State.
What's the leaders' line of logic? Let the West eliminate IS and suffer another wave of local opprobrium for interfering in the region – and at the same time keep the monarchs secure on their thrones, so that they might continue oppressing and harassing their people for years to come.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/why-are...atrocities-20140904-10cd6x.html#ixzz3CNvrtzWK
 

mccardey

Self-Ban
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
19,308
Reaction score
16,021
Location
Australia.
Waleed Aly this morning - always well worth reading
If we're going to get involved once more in a military campaign in Iraq, there is a question we simply must answer: what exactly will success look like? It's perhaps the single most catastrophically ignored question of the post-9/11 era. It's the question we never answered in defining the War on Terror. And it's the question we never answered (or even asked) before the disaster that was the 2003 invasion of Iraq, which is precisely why we had no workable plan for the post-Saddam nation. That's why we ended up with the ridiculous "Mission Accomplished" spectacle about eight years before American troops finally left.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/what-...-look-like-20140904-10c70b.html#ixzz3CO1gYK9z
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
QSIS is definitely more sophisticated than your average suicide bomber. They will prove harder to deal with precisely because their strategies have shown them to be damned smart, imho.

As far as Arab leaders, I don't know if it's fair to call fear of instability just trying to protect corrupt thrones. The choices of bedfellows on this one are probably toughest for leaders in the area. They are tough for the West, too, and that doesn't get said often enough in this debate, imho. In fighting QSIS, folks are 'allied' with Maliki, Iran, Assad, etc. That does wonders for the sectarian conflicts in the region :(

I do wish there could be more of a regional control of things in the ME, but the way the alliances run there are all kinds of screwed up. Leaders in the region have to be very careful of not causing a pan-anything sort of movement to blow up. At least the West won't have a coup on our hands if we make certain moves. Terrorist attacks, sure :( But that's probably true from the terrorist sort whether we get called in by the governments themselves or not. They aren't very nuanced, terrorists.
 

Synonym

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
24,038
Reaction score
4,491
Location
Kansahoma
I heard a short blurb on the radio about Egypt getting more involved through their airforce. I haven't had time to look into that any further.

Speaking of flying things...Reports of missing Libyan planes raise 9/11 terror fears.

While I think it's a bit short-sighted to be thinking that the US is the prime target, I would not be resting comfortably anywhere within range of those planes. Especially if my government wasn't sufficiently alarmed, or the national Air Force seriously deficient.
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
I should probably quote that bit I was referring to, and I do want to add that I support part of the idea of it:

What's the leaders' line of logic? Let the West eliminate IS and suffer another wave of local opprobrium for interfering in the region – and at the same time keep the monarchs secure on their thrones, so that they might continue oppressing and harassing their people for years to come.

It's not just the leaders in the region who are and have been doing that (ignoring the 'oppressing' part, which I said might not be fair). Everyone looks to the US to do the dirty work and take all the blame, frankly. That is not worded diplomatically enough, and there are some exceptions here and there, but it's basically true, imho.