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Is there such thing as too many beta-readers?

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Ian Nathaniel Cohen

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As of the time I'm writing this, I've had my manuscript for my one completed novel beta read by at least eight or nine people, all of whom provided helpful (if occasionally contradictory) feedback. Some of them were non-writer friends, others were writers on a different writer's board, but all of it was useful for one reason or another.

I'm getting recommendations (and offers) for beta-readers here on AW, and while I'm tempted, I'm worried about "too many cooks" syndrome. It's not that I'm against getting advice or accepting help (I'll take all the help anyone's willing to give), but how many beta-readers are too many? Is it even possible to reach this point?

Any seasoned writing vets have any perspectives on this?
 

Maryn

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At some point, you need to decide it's ready. There will always be new people who can beta and tweaks you can make based on their input. Getting more than a handful of beta reads from people you believe provide qualified feedback is probably an avoidance technique. You're nearly up to two handfuls.

Those who put off submitting for beta reads they don't really need are also delaying rejection, right? Pick a date in the near future and shift your focus to submitting it and starting the next one. Any beta feedback that comes in after that date is too late.

Maryn, who thinks five or six is about right
 

Netz

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Were those 8 or 9 people reading the same version? If so (& if you've done revisions based on their feedback), then it might be an idea to let fresh eyes see your latest version so you can check you've eliminated any problems your earlier beta readers picked up on.

ETA: Ah, so that's what Maryn looks like!
 

Maryn

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gettingby

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By this point you probably have a good idea of what works. Are you worried there are still problems? What do you hope more betas will find? I recently had a piece workshopped and was disappointed in the feedback. It wasn't because of any critical comments or anything like that. I just felt like maybe my readers weren't really into critiquing at the time they were reading or had only skimmed it. I had been waiting to get these comments before I sent the piece. But, really, I already believed in the work and had spent a lot of time on it. I don't really see much more I can do based on the comments. In my case, it just delayed the submission process.

Sometimes readers are helpful and sometimes they're not. I would ask yourself how ready you think your work is and if you are pleased with what's on the page, start submitting.
 

Ian Nathaniel Cohen

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Personally, I think it's ready, and have thought so for some time. That, combined with the excellent feedback I got on QLH got me sending out a bunch of queries, with no success. Most of the queries required a few sample pages (anywhere from five pages to the first three chapters).

The book is historical fiction, which I understand is a tough sell these days (especially since it's not YA and not a series - although I have a hazy idea for a sequel).

Basically, something's not working, and I'm at a point where I can't tell if the flaw is in the market, the agent, the pitch, or the manuscript itself.
 
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guttersquid

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Yeah get on with it. Maybe the last advice you'll need is from an editor interested in your book.

guttersquid, feeling happy that the aliens can't read Maryn's mind.
 

Thewitt

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You have to decide what you are interested in from your beta readers.

I had 30 for my book. Half a dozen gave me open, honest, critical feedback.

Another 3 or 4 found typos or other incorrectly used words that my spell check and grammar check software did not catch.

One told me to shorten it, it was too long. He's not into fantasy though and I knew that going in, so I discounted his opinion.

Two were professional authors who make really good livings writing in the genre.

You can probably decide who I listened to and for what purpose in the whole process.

How many beta readers has to tie to what you are looking for and the quality of feedback.

I can tell you if I had someone who simply harped on minutiae I would likely ignore them as well.

My book is written the way I write, not the way someone else writes. Yes there are things that could be better, but it's my story, told my way, and it's the way I will write Books II and III as well. Either my readers will like it or they will not. I cannot change my style to YOUR style, so your comments, though interesting, may not really be applied in the end.

That's how I look at beta readers. Good luck!
 

WriteMinded

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Eight or nine beta readers is a lot. Surely you've already gathered enough feedback. Beta reading takes a good deal of time and energy. Please don't take more than you need. Leave some for the rest of us. :D
 

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Yes- if all you do is keep changing things to meet their different approaches.
 

Jamesaritchie

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One beta is too many, unless that bet actually knows what makes something publishable. Chances are about a hundred to one he or she doesn't know.
 

Undercover

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Yeah, I think 8 to 9 is really high. Just a few is good enough. It sounds like your gut is telling you it's enough too, like it is too many cooks after this point. You can't please everyone. But what you should do is please yourself ultimately.

NOW, if you are getting a lot of rejections, then maybe revisit the beta thing. But if you're not even submitting and just endlessly revising with everyone, then that's a problem. The only way you'll get to the next level is if you put yourself there.
 

summontherats

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Personally, I think it's ready, and have thought so for some time. That, combined with the excellent feedback I got on QLH got me sending out a bunch of queries, with no success. Most of the queries required a few sample pages (anywhere from five pages to the first three chapters).

...

Basically, something's not working, and I'm at a point where I can't tell if the flaw is in the market, the agent, the pitch, or the manuscript itself.

I would definitely only focus on the query letter and first few chapters, then.

If you're getting requests for partials or fulls and agents are declining then, you can start worrying about the manuscript. But before then, just blame the query. It's usually the query's fault.
 

Maryn

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One beta is too many, unless that bet actually knows what makes something publishable. Chances are about a hundred to one he or she doesn't know.
James, I could not disagree more strongly.

I'm delighted you never need a beta reader, a critique, a writing group, assistance with research, or help of any kind. Yippee for you! But as a longtime member, you know perfectly well that what works for you as a writer is not necessarily going to work for others.

I don't see your remark here as adding to the discussion in any way. I welcome your actual input, of course, but this? Not so much.

Consider the value of a beta reader for a person whose native language is not English, though their English is quite good. Such a writer might get subtle nuances wrong, and a beta would catch those. There are, of course, writers with illness, injury, or condition which prevent them from learning or applying certain rules of writing mechanics. Betas can help them, too.

Maryn, suspecting you will not return to see this post
 

spikeman4444

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Of course they are going to offer contradicting advice. Of the 8 or 9, I'll bet you've had some people say the parts they liked the most are the parts someone else told you needed to be cut or improved on. I don't see how that could be helpful. Now what IS helpful, is if of the 8 or 9, 6 or 7 of them all pointed out something that they each disliked/thought needed to be improved. Because now it's a trend and it's not just one person's opinion.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, you can never have too many, provided you know how to sort through the suggestions that are just one person's opinion, and how to find the actual useful criticism that each of those readers can see that you might have been blind to. To me, the purpose of the Beta reader is just that, to find the glaring mistakes you made and would have never been able to find on your own. If you can accomplish this in one reader, great. If it takes a hundred, so be it.
 

DancingMaenid

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Consider the value of a beta reader for a person whose native language is not English, though their English is quite good. Such a writer might get subtle nuances wrong, and a beta would catch those. There are, of course, writers with illness, injury, or condition which prevent them from learning or applying certain rules of writing mechanics. Betas can help them, too.

Definitely. I've had a lot of friends who were either ESL writers or who had dyslexia, and beta reading was helpful for them.

Also, while people who publish through trade publishers will generally have professional editing included in their contract, people who self-publish won't have that unless they hire an editor. And there's potentially a lot of money down the drain if you don't do your best to self-edit and revise before seeking out professional services. Getting feedback from betas/critique partners can help with that.
 

skylark

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One beta is too many, unless that bet actually knows what makes something publishable. Chances are about a hundred to one he or she doesn't know.

I haven't a clue (beyond what I've picked up here) what makes things publishable. I still beta my husband's writing (in a scientific area I know very little about). I pick up the soundalike errors, the missed out "not"s, the sentences which aren't, the tense shifts...
 

Thomas Vail

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Going by his posts, James is a writing machine, needing no preventative maintenance or technician interference to keep on doing what he's doing. Truly the exception that proves the rule, 'no man is an island.'

Which also means, quite obviously, that what works for him is very unlikely to work as well for anybody else, and so what he says needs to be taken with a hefty grain of salt when you try and apply it to yourself.

When I look for beta readers, I generally have two or three, of various background and personalities so that I get a varied set of viewpoints on the work and how it worked for them. You want to get a good spread of opinion on it, but then again you also need to have few enough of them that you're not spending all your time dealing with different peoples input and feedback. There's a definite chance of information over-load if you have too many people weighing in.
 

SCUBABry

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Been reading the comments and thanks for the question posted Ian and the responses because this is a question I had, having never been through the process myself.

One additional question on this topic. Is there wisdom in sending a MS out to one group (say three Betas) then a second set of three (maybe with a different goal in mind) after the responses from the 1st set came back? I am just curious what people think about that.

After reading this post (beta reading was a big question mark) I feel way more solid on the topic now. My MS is in its first edit (from me) and I plan to give it two more edits before I beta it. I already have a handful of folks in mind for beta, I just need to find an accomplished author interested in reading a paranormal thriller. But...I am a few edits away from that point.
 
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