• Guest please check The Index before starting a thread.

Lillibridge Press

Momento Mori

Tired and Disillusioned
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
3,389
Reaction score
802
Location
Here and there
Lillibridge Press:
He stated that our contract is very fair.

Of course he did. He's your lawyer.

It's also disingenuous (again) for you to claim that your contract is fair because your lawyer told you so. You instruct your lawyer, your lawyer does not instruct you. Sure, your lawyer should be able to produce something in line with industry standards, but the fact that you can't name one publisher who uses the same concept may well lead someone to question your credibility.

The simple truth is that no commercial publisher is going to have a clause in their contract re ISBNs equivalent to what you have. It's not industry standard and it is not acceptable. I don't doubt that your lawyer may well have drafted it for vanity presses or self publishing companies, but I sincerely doubt he's done it for any publisher that pays author advances.

Lillibridge Press:
If we are not willing to restructure our agreement to your liking, we both walk away.

Does that mean that you are willing to negotiate out that ridiculous ISBN fee clause?

Lillibridge Press:
Unfortunately, he is bound by confidentiality and can't tell me what publisher has recoupable fees.

I understand client confidentiality because I'm a lawyer.

None of that should stop you from being able to identify another publisher who makes the same shoddy requirement.

Lillibridge Press:
I told him about the angst ridden words here concerning the copyright. His response: "You register the copyright in their name. If they don't want to pay you back, let them register it themselves."

Again, that may be standard for the vanity publishers or self publishing outfits that your attorney has worked for, but it's not par for the course for commercial publishers. It's disturbing rather than "angst ridden".

Lillibridge Press:
Our lawyer also advised me not to bother responding to this thread. He said, "Some writers are not going to like your contract."

Just to clarify - no writer who actually wants to make money from their book is going to like your contract.

By all means, flounce off under legal advisement. This thread will continue to show up on Google, thereby warning anyone who might be tempted to go with your amateurish operation.

MM
 
Last edited:

michael_b

So many ideas, never enough time.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
705
Reaction score
54
Location
Colorado, or Anime Tokyo, take your pick
Website
www.michaelbarnette.com
Michael, I'm unsure why you would have a vested interest in our policies. I batted scenarios around yesterday. Only few ideas surfaced.

Anyway, you're right. A block of ten ISBNs is 275.00. However, our lawyer didn't ask us how much ten ISBNs cost. He asked, how much does one cost? Please go here:http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/us/secureapp.asp Click on "Application for a Single ISBN."

Wow! One ISBN costs 125.00.

This is from the US Copyright website:

How do I register my copyright?
To register a work, submit a completed application form, a nonrefundable filing fee, which is $35 if you register online or $50 if you register using Form CO; and a nonreturnable copy or copies of the work to be registered. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Registration Procedures.”

At Lillibridge Press, the copyright is the authors. I hope this clears up questions about the cost of ISBNs and copyright fees.

I have a 'vested interest' in keeping authors from stepping into things uninformed. Being an author myself, I'd hate to think someone would let me step into a bad contract unawares.

I'm sure as a publisher you aren't buying ISBNs one at a time. The one at a time ISBN purchase is designed for people doing self-publishing, which it clearly states on the site in question. This issue has already been addressed succinctly by another poster, so I'll refrain from further comment beyond the remark that individual ISBNs are designed for self-publishing authors who don't have a pile of titles to publish.

It's a problem that you're charging the authors for their ISBNs. No publisher I know of does this and I've worked with quite a few over the years.

The publisher should be taking the cost of ISBNs from their own portion of each book's sale, not from the author's portion. It's the cost of doing business, as is cover art, editing, proofing, marketing etc, and all that should fall squarely on the publisher's shoulders, not the author's.

So you're saying you send in the snail mail form rather than go online and fill out an easy to do form?
 

Lillibridge Press

Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
Buffalo, New York
You spoke, we listened!

Absolute Writers,

Alright, I took our contract back to our lawyer! I also brought a copy of the EPIC contract with me. I told him to make our contract like the Epic version.

Now, our contract is more author friendly! It was always our goal to work with our authors. Thank you all for your input!

Sincerely,
Ronald E. Blakeslee
Publisher - Lillibridge Press
 

CloudyDay

Out of here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
85
Reaction score
16
Location
Earth
Absolute Writers,

Alright, I took our contract back to our lawyer! I also brought a copy of the EPIC contract with me. I told him to make our contract like the Epic version.

Now, our contract is more author friendly! It was always our goal to work with our authors. Thank you all for your input!

Sincerely,
Ronald E. Blakeslee
Publisher - Lillibridge Press

That's great to hear. Thank you for the update.
 

Giant Baby

Oh, the humanity.
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
988
Reaction score
271
Location
First-person omnicient
Absolute Writers,

Alright, I took our contract back to our lawyer! I also brought a copy of the EPIC contract with me. I told him to make our contract like the Epic version.

Now, our contract is more author friendly! It was always our goal to work with our authors. Thank you all for your input!

Sincerely,
Ronald E. Blakeslee
Publisher - Lillibridge Press

Yay, you!

I'm kinda an ignorant nut job, and I don't know what the Epic version is, but I'm sure many less ingnorantly nut jobbily folks here do. Pop that author-friendly contract up, and I'm sure the good folks here will be happy to look it over and give it their stamp of approval if it is, in fact, appropriately author friendly.

That sounds like snark, but I promise you it's not. The experts on AW *love* it when new pubs and agents work through their growing pains and emerge into something authors should feel confident and proud to be accepted by. There are scads of threads here attesting to that, but success stories become respectable, and thereby lack the salaciousness of the dubious entrenched. And so, they sink slowly to the bottom of the thread, only to bob back up again whenever some excited author announces a promising contract offered, or a hopeful dings it, looking for more detailed submission guidelines.

It's good to sink slowly, only to bob back up again.

If you don't want to put your contract up for public consumption, you could PM it to victoriastrauss at Writer Beware, or email it to her at [email protected]. She's freakishly discreet and fair minded, which I know from continuous report as well as personal experience. If it looks good, she'll report that here, and may even pull out an emoticon or two if so inspired (but don't get too hopeful on that one). If it's still glitchy, I'm sure she'll give you feedback privately if you're truly looking to make this work, and are hoping to attract educated, talented writers, and not just those who--for whatever reason--can be taken in by a shoddy pub with a shoddy contract.

The fact that you've started gives me a hopeful, tingly feeling inside. Of course, the sun is shining over New England for the first time in about three weeks, but I'd still like to think it's you.
 

CaoPaux

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
13,952
Reaction score
1,746
Location
Coastal Desert
I recently was offered a contract and I politely declined. They ask for life of the copyright, plus 70 years. I said no thanks!
It's logical and expected for a publisher to want the book "forever" in order to get as many sales from it as possible. What's important to the author is a reversion clause specifying that rights revert to the author if sales fall below X level. Is there such a clause?
 

xXFireSpiritXx

Killing my darlings...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
359
Reaction score
59
Location
Tampa, FL
Well, boy did I misread and confuse life of the copyright with signing over copyright. I'll add that to my list of dumb mistakes. There is no reversion of rights clause though.

Either way I still stand behind my decision. It doesn't seem they have much in the ways of distribution and online websites don't count. I could not find them listed with fictionwise.
 

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,933
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
With a small epublishers like this, limited term renewable contracts really are much more the norm. The only exception I know being Ellora's cave.
 

Nya RAyne

On the verge of greatness
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
901
Reaction score
85
Location
In a house on a corner, next to this old lady and
I was recently offered a contract with this company, and I'm a little wishy-washy about it because of the previous posts to this forum.

There were several things within the contract that I wanted to renegotiate and was able to with little to no problems. I also had questions about a particular section of the contract that talked about the publication of additional works and who I can and cannot submit it to. I spoke with Ron over the phone about my concerns and I actually found him very polite, down to earth, and very...very realistic and informed when it comes to the publishing world.

He answered my question and explained that the section I spoke of pertains to any prequels or sequels involving the contracted work. Basically, if I write anything else not dealing with the contracted characters and their world, it can be subbed all across the world without him every seeing it.

Fortunately, I have two offers on the table, so I don't necessarily have to go with Lillibridge, but I wanted to say, that if it weren't for the fact that they're a new company there wouldn't be any hesitation on my part.

Just wanted to share~
 

Stlight

ideas are floating where they will
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
1,069
Location
where you can put sugar sprinkles on lots of thing
From NyA RAyne: He answered my question and explained that the section I spoke of pertains to any prequels or sequels involving the contracted work. Basically, if I write anything else not dealing with the contracted characters and their world, it can be subbed all across the world without him every seeing it.


Perhaps it would better serve everyone if the fact that the contract referred to prequels and sequels was actually spelled out as such. That way there would be no confusion at signing or in the future.
 

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
19,528
Reaction score
22,757
Location
Aotearoa
My understanding is that if the contract doesn't *say* that the options clause is limited to sequels/prequels, then it's not. It doesn't matter what some guy says on the phone. The contract means precisely what it says.
 

priceless1

Banned
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,622
Reaction score
446
Location
Somewhere between sanity and barking mad
Website
www.behlerpublications.com
Lillibridge Press is not a vanity publisher. We never ask for any money from authors...

Lillibridge Press will front the expense... we recoup the expenditure. This is not a new idea. Large publishers also use recoupable fees, but hide them within layers of legal jargon.
This is an outright lie. Real publishers buy ISBNs in lots of hundreds or thousands and absorb those costs - just like they do with editing, cover design, marketing, promotion...This means that if the book tanks, they "recoup" nothing. They eat it, they don't charge back to their author.
 

brianm

Brian Boru
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
3,170
Reaction score
976
Location
The desert of S. California and the coast of N. Ir
My understanding is that if the contract doesn't *say* that the options clause is limited to sequels/prequels, then it's not. It doesn't matter what some guy says on the phone. The contract means precisely what it says.

This.

If it isn't written in the contract, it's not part of the contract.

~brianm~
 

Nya RAyne

On the verge of greatness
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
901
Reaction score
85
Location
In a house on a corner, next to this old lady and
From NyA RAyne: He answered my question and explained that the section I spoke of pertains to any prequels or sequels involving the contracted work. Basically, if I write anything else not dealing with the contracted characters and their world, it can be subbed all across the world without him every seeing it.


Perhaps it would better serve everyone if the fact that the contract referred to prequels and sequels was actually spelled out as such. That way there would be no confusion at signing or in the future.


I'm not in the habit of defending anyone but myself, but I will say that the contract does state, "..."next work" shall mean an unpublished work of fiction, regardless of length, which author shall desire to submit to a publisher for publication, limited to any prequel or sequel of the work..."
 

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
19,528
Reaction score
22,757
Location
Aotearoa
Nya, does Lillibridge option the *next work* or the *next works*? That is, does the ROFR clause cover only a single subsequent work, or all sequels/prequels?
 

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
19,528
Reaction score
22,757
Location
Aotearoa
Ah, that's okay then. A haiku will fulfil the author's obligation.
 

Donna Pudick

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
290
Reaction score
10
Location
Florida
In my experience working with small publishers, only one asked the author to copyright the manuscript herself. Every other expense was covered by that publisher. I've seen contracts from tiny little publishers, one or two books per year, where all costs are covered by them.

I've never seen one like this one.
 

Nya RAyne

On the verge of greatness
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
901
Reaction score
85
Location
In a house on a corner, next to this old lady and
Nya, does Lillibridge option the *next work* or the *next works*? That is, does the ROFR clause cover only a single subsequent work, or all sequels/prequels?

It is "Next Work". I guess if I were to write a sequel, that contract would option the "Next Work" and so on and so forth.

The longer I wait to execute this contract, the colder my feet are becoming...
 

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
6,704
Reaction score
1,314
Location
Far from the madding crowd
Website
www.victoriastrauss.com
I've recently seen a Lillibridge contract, and although it's improved from the one I saw last year, there are still problems. The main ones, for me:

- It's a life-of-copyright contract without any provision for return of rights to the author.

- There's no editing clause.

- The Competing Works clause binds authors from publishing any "similar work" or work featuring the same characters for a full five years following publication.

- The publisher can assign the contract and the rights granted in it at will.

- Victoria
 

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
6,704
Reaction score
1,314
Location
Far from the madding crowd
Website
www.victoriastrauss.com
My understanding is that if the contract doesn't *say* that the options clause is limited to sequels/prequels, then it's not. It doesn't matter what some guy says on the phone. The contract means precisely what it says.

Exactly. Never rely on verbal assurances, if they're not included in the contract.

- Victoria
 

Nya RAyne

On the verge of greatness
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
901
Reaction score
85
Location
In a house on a corner, next to this old lady and
Nya, if you have two offers on the table, how bad is the other guy?

Not nearly as bad as this particular forum is making Lillibridge out to be. As a matter of fact, I went back through and read the forum for the other one and authors have had nothing but good things to say about them.

*scratches head* And I thought getting an offer was difficult...