Learning more about Joseph Campbell's The Hero's Journey

Start online, on the web. The monomyth is huge and based in a lot of prior research in the social sciences (Jung, for example). Start simple. Campbell can be pretty dense at first.

http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero%27s_journey.htm

I would advise strongly against delving into super-academic, wordy stuff. You just want to explore this in regard to a plot/narrative template, correct?

Here's what George Lucas did with the monomyth for Star Wars: http://www.moongadget.com/origins/myth.html

The thing is, it's a model and it's open to interpretation. Anyone who tells you that these exact steps have to happen in this EXACT way are probably going to do more harm than good, imho. That said, many argue that they can fit any story into the monomythic format if made abstract enough.

Again, it's a model. I've used it many times to interpret literature and have a pretty strong background in it. But I don't write "to" it. I think the point of the monomyth is that we--as humans--are primed to expect certain things in a heroic arc. And in stories in general.

(Save the Cat's Beat Sheet for film writing, for example, gives us guidelines for creating a film with a template, but is less about the psyche and more about practical application.)

My issue with the monomyth is that when you begin writing to something so subjective and analytical, it's going to be a struggle. These story aspects suggest a map that leads to individuation, and that all stories have underlying subconscious motives and meaning. (Jung and the Monomyth.)

I've known writers to use the monomyth loosely to success. (There are books out there if you google monomyth and "creative writing" and such.)

Again, I do not write "to" the monomyth. I do notice monomythic themes that manifest upon completing a draft and if I feel enhancing those aspects will enrich the story, I might tinker.

I'm sure you'll hear a plethora of opinions, so take it all in. And good luck!

Bill Moyers did a series of interviews with Joseph Campbell which are wonderful. The Hero's Journey is the key theme throughout the interviews. I forget how many segments, but the series is available on DVDs. I watched it years ago with a small discussion group and it was revelatory for everyone attending. Very nicely done, and two more interesting "talkers" you couldn't hope to be listening to.

I loved that interview with Bill Moyers. I found a few options when I googled Bill Moyers Power of Myth interview. Vimeo has a few.

mypetduk said:

Can someone suggest which of his books best outlines his thoughts on the topic? Has another author written about Campbell's thoughts in such a way that a writer can glean inspiration and guidance?

Click to expand...

Try The Writer's Journey by Christopher Vogler. It's a very good distillation of the hero's journey and the character archetypes. It's not a formula, or even a template, but a lens through which to view the elements that most if not all stories have in common, though in varied form.

I've tried to read the original book but it was all like "did you know that Freud Freud Freud oedipian complex obsolete psychanalitic concepts anthropology of doubtful quality more Freud Freud Freud?"

So I quickly gave up.

Yeah, the book is dense. I had to read it for a course on the hero's journey (and Jung's writings as well as some alchemical works). But I have no idea what I would have gotten from it as a writer. That's just me, though. I look at it like theme. Many cannot start out by writing TO theme. It often comes organically and you begin to really uncover it upon revision. I feel like if it's delivered too deliberately, it will read deliberate. In a bad way.

I'm not a big Hero's Journey fan at all. It's too formulaic, and too strict in application. But I think every writer should read the book. Sure, it's "dense", but of all people, this shouldn't bother a writer. There's much good information in the book, and the other books based off the original do not contain most of it.

I just don't see it as pragmatic. If you want to look at the overview of the monomyth, you can see the steps and work it out. If you want to read it to supplement as you go, great. I highly recommend it for casual reading, but would never dump it into a writer's lap and say, "Read all of this before you continue." You can comprehend a layman's version quite easily. And most thinking people can interpret it well enough. To go deeper? Sure. I'm all for that.

And it's as strict as it needs to be. It's a model, not the word of the writing gods. It's open for abundant interpretation. Which is both a benefit and a flaw, imho.

Campbell's books are dense for casual reading. But there are authors who have distilled the important bits for the lay reader. Two books come to mind:
The Writer's Journey by Christopher Vogler
The Key: How to Write Damn Good Fiction Using the Power of Myth by James N. Frey
There's also Vogler's original memo, the precursor to the book, available on his website. It's free and very short. It should be enough to get you started.
I think the important thing to remember is that Cambell was drawing from a lot of different traditions, none of which matches his monomyth exactly. So, if you follow the Hero's journey to the letter, it might stifle your creativity and make your story seem contrived.

Jamesaritchie said:

I'm not a big Hero's Journey fan at all. It's too formulaic, and too strict in application.

Click to expand...

As explicated by Christopher Vogler (The Writer's Journey), it's neither one. Or so I found. It's more like a list of elements that can be mixed and blended to create endless diversity in storytelling, while at the same time retaining archetypes that resonate even when heavily disguised.

That said, I found it to be enlightening primarily after the writing, not before.

It might be dense reading in its original form, but it's a snazzy template and easily found broken down. I disagree that it's too formulaic -- a lot of it is thematic (spiritual death of the protag, for instance) and the whole thing can be chopped, changed and re-interpreted to suit the story. It's a good way to fix stalled stories or muddled drafts. While a lot of pro writers have a learned familiarity with a wide range of plots, these templates are really useful learning tools for a newer writer trying to understand structure.

The Wikipedia page on the Monomyth is a really nice simplification of a few variations on the template.

I read the original book. It is dense, but interesting.

However, I think people who use it as a template are misguided. (I know some writers have done this successfully, but it seems counter-productive to me.) I always saw the Hero's Journey as descriptive, not prescriptive. Campbell was describing what he thought were universal elements that emerge organically in human storytelling, not the "required pieces" that are supposed to be included in all stories.

I've seen too many writers try to follow the Monomyth and stumble over "Wait, where's my Atonement? Oh no, my story is incomplete!"

Good point, Amadan. And whenever anything seems to show up as universally so, it's always instructive to try to find counterexamples.

Amadan said:

However, I think people who use it as a template are misguided. (I know some writers have done this successfully, but it seems counter-productive to me.) I always saw the Hero's Journey as descriptive, not prescriptive. Campbell was describing what he thought were universal elements that emerge organically in human storytelling, not the "required pieces" that are supposed to be included in all stories.

Click to expand...

Yes, exactly.

If you want a more unorthodox and simplified look at the monomyth, there's an episode of the web series Here There Be Dragons that discusses the monomyth in the context of a review of the movie Willow. Most of the video is a comedic review of the film, but there's considerable focus on how it follows the monomyth.

(BTW, viewer discretion of this video is advised - the language is R-rated, so for people who care about this sort of thing, I don't recommend watching with young kids around.)

EMaree said:

It might be dense reading in its original form, but it's a snazzy template and easily found broken down. I disagree that it's too formulaic -- a lot of it is thematic (spiritual death of the protag, for instance) and the whole thing can be chopped, changed and re-interpreted to suit the story. It's a good way to fix stalled stories or muddled drafts. While a lot of pro writers have a learned familiarity with a wide range of plots, these templates are really useful learning tools for a newer writer trying to understand structure.

The Wikipedia page on the Monomyth is a really nice simplification of a few variations on the template.

Click to expand...

Yes, it can be chopped, changed, and reinterpreted, but this is not what most writers do. They try to follow it as an exact template, and the result is always pure formula.

EMaree said:

It might be dense reading in its original form, but it's a snazzy template and easily found broken down. I disagree that it's too formulaic -- a lot of it is thematic (spiritual death of the protag, for instance) and the whole thing can be chopped, changed and re-interpreted to suit the story. It's a good way to fix stalled stories or muddled drafts. While a lot of pro writers have a learned familiarity with a wide range of plots, these templates are really useful learning tools for a newer writer trying to understand structure.

The Wikipedia page on the Monomyth is a really nice simplification of a few variations on the template.

Click to expand...

Agree with much here.

Jamesaritchie said:

Yes, it can be chopped, changed, and reinterpreted, but this is not what most writers do. They try to follow it as an exact template, and the result is always pure formula.

Click to expand...

Agree with this as well. It has the potential to come across as canned narrative.

On another note, I second The Writer's Journey by Christopher Vogler.

In addition, as a counter-tonic to the Hero's Journey (and especially the misguided worship it receives in certain writerly circles), may I recommend FilmCriticHulk's excellent breakdown on the perils of relying on monomyth as a crutch:

https://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/...we-should-stop-it-with-the-hero-journey-shit/