Can a writer have a say over the cover art of her book?

Terie

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Thank you, everyone, for your advice. I guess, once I get an agent, I'll discuss it with them more, but at least I have the right idea for opening a dialogue now ^_^

But...but...but... it has nothing to do with agents. It's a conversation to have with a publisher once you have a contract. Agents don't have anything to do with cover design.
 

Cyia

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But...but...but... it has nothing to do with agents. It's a conversation to have with a publisher once you have a contract. Agents don't have anything to do with cover design.

Exactly. This is solely the domain of the publisher's marketing dept. You likely won't even talk to them unless it's through your editor in a "if you have an ideas, pass them along" sort of way (which is what my editor said with the title suggestions). There's no direct communication.
 

Anne Lyle

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...or unless you're with a publisher that's so small, your editor is also your cover designer (as is the case with my books).

(Note: not the cover artist. They commission the same artists as the big houses to do the actual pictures, but my editor was the one who came up with the design concept.)

As has been said, you may get some mention of "consultation" in your contract, and if you can come up with some sound commercial ideas at that point, your editor may be interested. But you need to be able to couch your ideas in terms of marketing, not personal preference.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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Thank you, everyone, for your advice. I guess, once I get an agent, I'll discuss it with them more

I don't mean to be rude, but it's like you didn't read anything anybody said.

Agents don't have any role in cover design. None. Zero. Talking with your agent about it is pointless.

The person to talk with about it is your editor once your book has been accepted for publication.
 

areteus

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A few years back, SFX magazine did an article on cover design and they said that some publishers will give a brief to several freelance artists and then pay the one whose work they like the most. As an experiment, they gave the same blurb for a fake book to 3 different artists and saw what they came up with - they ended up with some interesting results, three different covers and none of them really paid more than lip service to the blurb given.

There are some publishers who give the writer some input. Mine has a webform on the author log in locked part of their site which asks the author some questions about the cover they want - mainly questions about the protagonists and their appearance. No idea if they pay any attention to what is posted there yet (still waiting for edits never mind covers at the moment :) ) but it at least shows willing.

I suspect that larger publishers are more likely to pay attention to what their marketing department says a good cover should look like.
 

Anne Lyle

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There are some publishers who give the writer some input. Mine has a webform on the author log in locked part of their site which asks the author some questions about the cover they want - mainly questions about the protagonists and their appearance. No idea if they pay any attention to what is posted there yet (still waiting for edits never mind covers at the moment :) ) but it at least shows willing.

That's pretty much what happened with mine (but via email, not a web form). They wanted a description of the protagonist and a few other suggestions for visual details, then I believe my editor drew up a detailed brief for the artist. There was some leeway at that point - the artist added a flaming torch to give the image a bit more colour contrast than the original specs - but it was much more tightly controlled by the publisher than the SFX scenario outlined above.

I suspect that, depending on the publisher and editor, you may get anything from some kind of collaborative process to zero input (with the latter more likely) - but either way, as a debut author you will have no say beyond what the publishers choose to allow. None.
 

Terie

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What if you draw the cover picture yourself?

As we've said a bunch of times upstream, publishers control your cover. PERIOD. That's written into every contract. Even for picturebooks, where the illustrator of the inside typically does the cover art, the publisher still has final say on the cover. PERIOD.

If you're a professional illustrator, you might be able to suggest yourself for the cover, but most publishers will still say 'no'.

It might be a good idea to read through this entire thread, because the rationale for the publisher controlling the cover has been explained several times.
 
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SarahHobson

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I don't mean to be rude, but it's like you didn't read anything anybody said.

Agents don't have any role in cover design. None. Zero. Talking with your agent about it is pointless.

The person to talk with about it is your editor once your book has been accepted for publication.

Right, sorry for being so stupid as to be so inexperienced in this world. I mean to say "whomever it is I was told to speak to, which I thought was an agent, because I thought agents were the people who negotiated contracts with publishing companies for you." Obviously, I thought wrong. Please, feel free to correct me, as I'll never learn unless you do.
 

Terie

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Right, sorry for being so stupid as to be so inexperienced in this world. I mean to say "whomever it is I was told to speak to, which I thought was an agent, because I thought agents were the people who negotiated contracts with publishing companies for you." Obviously, I thought wrong. Please, feel free to correct me, as I'll never learn unless you do.

I'll ignore the snark (which doesn't suit you well, but I'll let the mods deal with that) and point out what you're missing.

If a publisher won't put a contract clause in that NYT bestselling authors will have approval over the cover, why on earth do you think they'd do so for you?

I would suggest that you loosen your hold on the idea, because there is virtually no chance at all that any agent on earth can get that kind of clause written into a contract for you.
 

SarahHobson

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I'll ignore the snark (which doesn't suit you well, but I'll let the mods deal with that) and point out what you're missing.

If a publisher won't put a contract clause in that NYT bestselling authors will have approval over the cover, why on earth do you think they'd do so for you?

I would suggest that you loosen your hold on the idea, because there is virtually no chance at all that any agent on earth can get that kind of clause written into a contract for you.

Okay, I get it. Thank you all for your advice! Is that better? It's all I was trying to say in the first place!
 

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Sarah, I can understand people getting a bit irritated with you, because reading back through this thread it does seem that you've misunderstood what's been said to you, or not listened.

However, I am looking at this from the "I already knew the answer to this one" corner, as are the people who have got irritated. Which means that of course it's obvious to us, and of course we're not at all confused by what's been said, and so on and so forth.

Everyone: I appreciate that several of us here know the answer and some of us don't, and that some of us might feel that we're being ignored, and others might feel that we're being treated unfairly. All these viewpoints are valid and understandable, but what's not acceptable is forgetting our One Rule: respect your fellow writer. Let's all of us dial back on the irritation, please, and remember that not everyone is blessed with as much knowledge as we have, and that AW is meant to be a nurturing, knowledgeable place and not a snarkfest. I thank you.
 

Bluestone

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Thank you, everyone, for your advice. I guess, once I get an agent, I'll discuss it with them more, but at least I have the right idea for opening a dialogue now ^_^
When I saw this, I really did take it as a general comment, coming from someone who doesn't yet have an agent and isn't sure how all this works, but could potentially have a general discussion with an agent once they secured one.

However, this would be more appropriate:
Once the book is accepted for publication and you're chummy with your new editor, you say something like:

"Oh, BTW, I was thinking about the cover design. I really like the design that [insert author name] had on [title of book and series]. But the colors are probably wrong for this book. The colors on [insert author name] on [title of book and series] would look great, though! Is there any chance of doing something like that?"

If you look at the two covers I used (post 33) as an example of what can change if you have a receptive editor, you can see it is possible. But the most likely scenario is that they'll come up with their own design, based on any number of perceived marketing factors and that will be that. Prepare yourself for having no input and be pleasantly surprised if you do.

At this stage, though, it's a bit cart before horse! Cross that bridge when you come to it! Meanwhile, focus on polishing your work (if it needs it) perfecting your query, and enjoy the journey as best you can. Good luck! :)
 

Toothpaste

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I'll just add a bit to the editor cover conversation. First of all, yes this is something you talk about with your editor, not your agent as your agent can support you in your endeavors but has no control over what the publisher will decide as far as covers go.

But I am quite obsessed with covers, and have a decent eye for cover design, and so I do like to have my two cents. That being said, I understand fully that at the end of the day the publisher gets the final say.

So with the above said. . . two stories:

The first is when my American publisher was going to put out the paperback of my book. They were going to change the cover and sent me what they planned on using. I really didn't like it. So instead of freaking out, I sent back an email detailing precisely why I didn't think it would work, and suggestions that could do something similar but not the same. It was professional and polite. They were very receptive and took my suggestions.

Second story.

I discovered an artist online that totally captured the spirit of what I thought my book was trying to as well. I sent a link to the artist's page to my editor. I didn't say I wanted him for my cover - because usually in YA books you get a photographic cover anyway - I just said that I thought he was amazing, that a particular work of his was just perfect for what I was trying to convey, and that was all. It was more so that she and I were on the same page as far as packaging the book. Less of a hard and fast suggestion. It was just a really cool thing I thought she'd like.

A couple months later I learn that she is actually pitching that artist to do the cover. And then marketing agreed to it. This is Penguin, btw, which is a pretty big house - I point this out because a lot of people say that you can't have any kind of influence unless it's a small publisher and that's not quite accurate.

My point, well, I knew that at the end of the day my publisher had the last word - and they still do. I've seen a sketch of the cover and offered some suggestions. They took some, but not all. And that's fine. But I don't think authors should be scared to share ideas with their editor. They just can't expect anything to come from sharing their ideas. Also the more general the better. So instead of saying, "I want a purple unicorn with a rainbow of black yellow and red behind him, and I want this font and my name to be on a slant and and . . ." find artwork that you think captures some kind of essence of what you're trying for with a cover. Comparable covers as well. Specifics can make people feel boxed in, but a general feeling, mood, tone, quality of art - poster art vs painting vs photograph - well that allows for the imagination to flourish.

So yeah. Them's my thoughts on the subject :) .
 

Cathy C

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I second Toothpaste. The cover for the first book of our latest series came much the same way. The character was based on an art photo that my co-author bought at an SF/F con. Once the book was completed (we sold it on proposal) we sent the editor the photo, more than anything so she would know what the character looked like. She not only loved the image, like Toothpaste, she wanted to use the artist for the covers! The artist in question wasn't actually a cover artist by trade. She was an amateur photographer who manipulated self-portraits. It took time to track her down & more time to convince her the offer from a publisher wasn't some sort of con/scam (LOL!). But she was our cover artist for the first three books and we couldn't have been more pleased. :)

The point is that I don't feel it's ever too early to start thinking about the success of your book on the shelf. It's not the cart before the horse at all. Cover design IS the horse. It's often what drives sales on a debut book. Just make sure you don't obsess over it to the exclusion of creating a great book BEHIND that awesome cover. :)
 

Hip-Hop-a-potamus

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THIS thread is one of the reasons I love AW. Thanks for all the good info, everyone!
 

Steve Collins

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Purely my own experience, I have no clue if it was written into the contract or not. I was published by Random House, I asked my editor what cover design they were going for and he aked if I had something in mind which I did. I then worked very closely with the art department did photoshoots (as I was on the jacket) and came up with the final product, they were extremely obliging. The first cover 'The Good Guys Wear Black' was the last photo taken on the day. When it came to the second book 'The Glory Boys' I wanted people to spark a memory of the first but with a Caribbean feel as a lot of it was set in the islands.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0099186829/?tag=absowrit-21

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1856865614/?tag=absowrit-21
 

IceCreamEmpress

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Steve, your covers look absolutely great! (And your books look fascinating.) But the involvement of authors of non-fiction works in cover design can be (and often is) much more hands-on than the involvement of authors of fiction, simply because the non-fiction author may have special access to the people interviewed for or depicted in the book.

With novels, the decision is driven by "What will sell?" far more than "Is this a realistic depiction of the characters in the book?", sometimes to ludicrous extremes. With books like yours, a realistic depiction of the book's subject is a strong selling point. :)
 

Steve Collins

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I didn't know that ICE but it makes sense, thanks for pointing it out, I'm a quarter way through a novel at the moment so I hopefully will get some first hand experience. ;-)
 

Bluestone

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Sarah, you've had so many opinions here, I didn't want you to be further confused by misinterpretation. When I said 'cart before horse', I didn't mean you shouldn't think about it. Of course we all think about our covers. Just as we fantasize about who we want to play the part of our MC in the movies. I just meant that you shouldn't have to worry about whether you'll get to do the art or have the final say until the time comes.

I had a similar experience to parts of Toothpaste's story, even though mine is non-fic. It went from industrial and awful to attractive and appealing, because I offered designs on what I had in mind. The final cover wasn't exactly the same as my suggestions, but fortunately the editor came up with something I really liked.
 

SarahHobson

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Sarah, you've had so many opinions here, I didn't want you to be further confused by misinterpretation. When I said 'cart before horse', I didn't mean you shouldn't think about it. Of course we all think about our covers. Just as we fantasize about who we want to play the part of our MC in the movies. I just meant that you shouldn't have to worry about whether you'll get to do the art or have the final say until the time comes.

Oh no, I understand you. I'm just trying not to put my foot in my mouth again.

And yes, we all know who we'd want to play our characters; my concern isn't that, it's that I'd rather the reader come up with what the MCs look like in their head rather than rely on a cover model image. Especially when the description for her is "size 8, smallish chest" and him is "swimmer's body" as opposed to the usual cover model couple being a stick-thin girl with huge tits hugging a man with a chest broader than the side of a barn. That's all I was saying before over worrying about the models looking like they should. I'd just rather not have any models on my cover and go with something more abstract, but if that's what sells, I'll have to accept that.
 

Anne Lyle

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I'd just rather not have any models on my cover and go with something more abstract, but if that's what sells, I'll have to accept that.

The worst thing is, some cover art isn't aimed at the reader but at the male bookstore staff who choose which books to stock - at least, I've heard this as an explanation of why overly sexy women are used on the covers of books marketed at girls.

If you want a laugh/cry, see this wonderful blog post:

http://genrereviews.livejournal.com/371367.html
 

SarahHobson

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If you want a laugh/cry, see this wonderful blog post:

http://genrereviews.livejournal.com/371367.html

That is awesome! It's so true, too! It's another reason why I worry... Then again, I stress over the details of anything I create, not just writing. I should remember that, while I'm not a chef by any means, I know I can make something really tasty; Even if the presentation is sub-par, I know whomever is consuming it will love the taste and (hopefully) ignore the fact that it may look like it came from a dog food can LOL.
 

VanessaNorth

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This is an interesting convo to be sure. I'm a professional photographer, and from that perspective, if I were shooting a book cover I would want to know what sort of look/feel the author was going for in the story before I requested or hired models, and for sure at the time that I lit the scene. But I'd also want to know the overall vibe the art department was going for--because how they would post/process or embellish the image would make a difference as far as how I would light and or shoot it.

Hair color and eye color are completely irrelevant in digital photography (I change both all the time in editorial (fashion) work) but it's really easy to get wrapped up in "but this is what I want!"

From an artist perspective, you want to please as many people as possible, but when it comes down to it, it's the publisher writing your check.

As an author, the only way in this world I would want to shoot my own cover is if I were self-pubbing. And I'd still rather have someone else do the final artwork. ;)