I Need a Cookie...

Deb Kinnard

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It's easy to get discouraged in this rat race, but if we don't believe in our work (and each other's), who will?

I see that cookie batch and raise you a batch of scratch-made chocolate cupcakes. Iced.

My sob story is that my publisher is no longer promoting my book released 6 months ago. It got rave reviews and NO distribution to speak of. Nor will there be the second book in the time-travel series that the publisher wanted so badly that I dropped other projects to work on it.

But there's hope. I'm morphing the second t.t. into a straight medieval. And no more (really, truly) small presses for me. If the biggies don't want my stuff, it goes into the bottom drawer.

You can hold me to that if I start to whine about how a small press wants XYZ title from me...

:cry:
 

brainstorm77

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It's easy to get discouraged in this rat race, but if we don't believe in our work (and each other's), who will?

I see that cookie batch and raise you a batch of scratch-made chocolate cupcakes. Iced.

My sob story is that my publisher is no longer promoting my book released 6 months ago. It got rave reviews and NO distribution to speak of. Nor will there be the second book in the time-travel series that the publisher wanted so badly that I dropped other projects to work on it.

But there's hope. I'm morphing the second t.t. into a straight medieval. And no more (really, truly) small presses for me. If the biggies don't want my stuff, it goes into the bottom drawer.

You can hold me to that if I start to whine about how a small press wants XYZ title from me...

:cry:

I bolded. What pisses me off is that this is becoming all to freakin common.
I could easily rant about this but I won't. I swear we could use a rant thread in the romance section...
 

Karen Junker

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I wouldn't avoid the small presses just yet -- some of my former crit partners started out with Ellora's Cave or Samhain or even lesser known epubs and they went on to the big NY houses. Many of us need to write a few books before we get to the point where we're writing material that NY will buy. I've heard it said we need to write a million words before we're really ready to sell...and why not get those words published, even if it is with a small press or epub?
 

Robin Bayne

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My sob story is that my publisher is no longer promoting my book released 6 months ago. It got rave reviews and NO distribution to speak of. Nor will there be the second book in the time-travel series that the publisher wanted so badly that I dropped other projects to work on it.

:cry:


Aww, sorry to hear that Deb! :Hug2:
 

Deb Kinnard

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I can think of one reason not to sell to small publishers, Karen -- that once you've done so, and pitch to a larger house, they ask how your sales numbers have been.

What do you tell them then? "Oh, they were great -- in the hundreds!" I can just imagine what the inner thought process is, in the acquisitions editor's mind.

"Small potatoes. Cannot effectively market her book. These aren't the projects you're looking for." (Insert Jedi hand gesture here). "Move along."

And they do ask. I pitched a separate project last month at the ACFW conference, to a big-house editor, and she asked exactly that question. Fortunately, at the time I had Sheaf House's assurance my sales were "quite good" and relayed that data.

Didn't know at the time that the assurance wasn't true. C'est la vie.
 

brainstorm77

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I can think of one reason not to sell to small publishers, Karen -- that once you've done so, and pitch to a larger house, they ask how your sales numbers have been.

What do you tell them then? "Oh, they were great -- in the hundreds!" I can just imagine what the inner thought process is, in the acquisitions editor's mind.

"Small potatoes. Cannot effectively market her book. These aren't the projects you're looking for." (Insert Jedi hand gesture here). "Move along."

And they do ask. I pitched a separate project last month at the ACFW conference, to a big-house editor, and she asked exactly that question. Fortunately, at the time I had Sheaf House's assurance my sales were "quite good" and relayed that data.

Didn't know at the time that the assurance wasn't true. C'est la vie.

In the end, it's writer beware. There are some e pubs and small presses that are excellent and they have the sales to prove it. But there are others and I won't mention any names, that are nothing more than flop houses.
 

brainstorm77

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I can think of one reason not to sell to small publishers, Karen -- that once you've done so, and pitch to a larger house, they ask how your sales numbers have been.

What do you tell them then? "Oh, they were great -- in the hundreds!" I can just imagine what the inner thought process is, in the acquisitions editor's mind.

"Small potatoes. Cannot effectively market her book. These aren't the projects you're looking for." (Insert Jedi hand gesture here). "Move along."

And they do ask. I pitched a separate project last month at the ACFW conference, to a big-house editor, and she asked exactly that question. Fortunately, at the time I had Sheaf House's assurance my sales were "quite good" and relayed that data.

Didn't know at the time that the assurance wasn't true. C'est la vie.

Deb how is the Christian market? Are there many publishers out there?
 

Deb Kinnard

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Fewer than you might think. In the Christian market like the general market, there has been contraction and not a few mergers and outright acquisitions over the past several years. For example, Multnomah merged with Waterbrook, to become a single possibility to pitch to, rather than two. Several other known publishers were bought by general fiction publishers.

Among the small presses, there are several, including Sheaf, Whitaker, DeWard, OakTara, and others. Many, if not all of them, seem to have difficulty placing books in stores (I've heard such stories from authors who write for Whitaker, Kregel, etc.).

Why this is, I don't know. I do realize that with the market's contraction, the appeal of a small press may be so tempting that an author in our market can't resist.

Well, I've decided to resist, from here on out.

(Munching chocolate chip cookie -- therapeutic in nature)
 

brainstorm77

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Fewer than you might think. In the Christian market like the general market, there has been contraction and not a few mergers and outright acquisitions over the past several years. For example, Multnomah merged with Waterbrook, to become a single possibility to pitch to, rather than two. Several other known publishers were bought by general fiction publishers.

Among the small presses, there are several, including Sheaf, Whitaker, DeWard, OakTara, and others. Many, if not all of them, seem to have difficulty placing books in stores (I've heard such stories from authors who write for Whitaker, Kregel, etc.).

Why this is, I don't know. I do realize that with the market's contraction, the appeal of a small press may be so tempting that an author in our market can't resist.

Well, I've decided to resist, from here on out.

(Munching chocolate chip cookie -- therapeutic in nature)


Given what you have experienced, I can't say that I blame you.
 

Lainey Bancroft

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Karen, that's too funny about mailing the card...won't/can't do it. I agree small press can be a learning experience and for some even a step toward the main destination--hell, I hoped it would be for me. Not so much. :cry:

And as Deb mentioned :)Hug2:for you Deb, been there...am there, not comfortable) if you write sweet or more mainstream heat with e-pubs/small press, chances are your sales aren't going to rock the house. If an acquiring editor I pitched looked at the reviews and wonderful personal emails I've received, I'd be golden. If they asked about sales?
 

brainstorm77

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I may not have cookies but I have a FABulous Halloween cake!!! :partyguy:
 

MartinD

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And no more (really, truly) small presses for me. If the biggies don't want my stuff, it goes into the bottom drawer.:cry:

But if it goes into a drawer, the manuscript disappears.

You don't build a fan base, you don't have the (astronomically-small) chance of an editor/publisher finding and liking it on-line...and it does, ever-so-rarely, happen...and no one reads what you wrote.

Your choice, of course. You absolutely deserve a cookie for what's happened to you.
 

brainstorm77

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But if it goes into a drawer, the manuscript disappears.

You don't build a fan base, you don't have the (astronomically-small) chance of an editor/publisher finding and liking it on-line...and it does, ever-so-rarely, happen...and no one reads what you wrote.

Your choice, of course. You absolutely deserve a cookie for what's happened to you.

Martin that's true of course. But it's also pointless to have something out there that isn't reaching readers. The sad thing is, this is becoming more and more commonplace.

Not all small presses or e presses are alike. Many do enjoy decent sales and they do have a readership. Look at Siren/Bookstrand and that's just one example.
 

Deb Kinnard

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It's not only pointless, it can be destructive. It's wrought havoc on my abilities to focus my creative attention on projects that might gain better footing. That's just now coming back to me after a year wasted on trying to promote this book and write Book #2 which will now never be.

Figure it this way: you've got a book "out there," yes, but given the demands for monies spent on promo, time spent on activities such as blog tours, finding your own book signings, arranging same, bookmarks, postcards (I was told to mail announcement postcards to 1,000 public libraries), postage and the like...

...it can get to the point where you cannot afford it anymore. It got to that point with this book. When you look at your income/expense spreadsheet and realize you've spent three times your royalties, it's time to rethink the small press relationships and the demands they must place on you.

Is my name more recognized in my market? Yes. Did I get a great cover? Definitely. Was the book the "breakout" I hoped it would be? No. Did the book make it? No.

I'm still assessing how big a loss I took on this experience. Brain is right, and so is Martin. There are upsides to small press publishing -- but if you're hoping to break out with a book, a small press can be disappointing when the distribution is not there.

My take alone.
 

K. Taylor

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I know some are having luck self-publishing their their niche-y books as e-books, but like with some small presses, marketing is on you. There are a lot of free (money-wise) options for publicity...they still take time.

A big hug and a full plate of cookies. I think readers will read a lot of things that aren't "NY style", but it's getting it in their hands that's the key. :/
 

brainstorm77

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We learn from our mistakes, even when the control isn't really in our hands. And in the spirit of the thread, have a cookie on me :)

Vingtage_Jack_O_Lantern_Halloween_Cookies_Button.jpg
 

Robin Bayne

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if you write sweet or more mainstream heat with e-pubs/small press, chances are your sales aren't going to rock the house. If an acquiring editor I pitched looked at the reviews and wonderful personal emails I've received, I'd be golden. If they asked about sales?

That's so true about sweet and inspy romances, they don't sell nearly as well as steamy and erotic romance.

It's also true about sales--at my first publisher I was considered the "top seller," which still meant next to nothing in sales.
 

brainstorm77

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I'll take a dozen freakin donuts... No comment on why!
 

brainstorm77

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Robin, they look so goooood!:D
 

ebennet68

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Had a pretty tough day at the day job. (I teach first grade. Six year olds. Enough said.) Anyway, wish I could stay home and write but the powers that be know where I live. Oh well, taking the chocolate chips now...
 

Deb Kinnard

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Chocolate chips are good for you. My Momma said so. She also said "dust is a wood preservative", and who am I to argue with Momma?

Robin, thanks for the cupcakes. I see the box is nearly empty now...
 

shameless

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Had a pretty tough day at the day job. (I teach first grade. Six year olds. Enough said.) Anyway, wish I could stay home and write but the powers that be know where I live. Oh well, taking the chocolate chips now...


I LOVE teaching, but I feel exactly like you some days. It's a very draining job, literally sucking the life out of you if you love your kids. Since I have lupus, I find that I have more and more problems every year, usually triggered by the stress from my job.

Hang in there! Tossing some chocolate your way! (And eating a chunk myself!) :Hug2: