The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Ken Schneider

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Jenna,
Beyond spelling and grammar, we talked about p.o.v., how the story- book was moving too fast, fleshing out the characters. We also cut around 5,000 words that didn't move the story along- weren't needed. Um... lets see. Show, don't tell. We also talked about building relationships between characters before throwing them into a scene that was unrealistic for their relationship. I'm sure there is more that we spoke of, I don't recall just now.
 

lindylou45

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JennaGlatzer said:
:Smack: Is it just me, or are a lot of people not reading past posts before responding to something?
So maybe we could move past that part? Thanks in advance. :Thumbs:


Is it just me, or does it seem that people are a bit snippy today? Sorry, I'll be sure to read everything before posting again.

And Ed,

Sorry to offend the porn star. :gone:
 

JennaGlatzer

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Lindy, it ain't just you... I've been getting frustrated for Ken because I feel like he's answered the same thing about five times already.

So, Ken, now that I know the whole scoop, anyone who asks you again, you just send 'em to me and I'll be your spokesperson. ;)
 

WhisperingBard

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JD,

Nice post.

I now have a wife who is more than willing to support me in every way possible during this endeavor and I am forever grateful that I was blessed to find a wonderful person to walk down this road with.
I am similarly blessed. I have a husband who supports my writing 100% and it makes all the difference in the world. Congrats again on your recent marriage.

Re: PA's new "partners." Is it possible they're adding on new ones in the hopes of spreading around the blame when the end finally comes? Or perhaps they're setting up the new partners so the Big Three can abscond before things get any hotter?

Just musing.
 

KellyS.

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While I don't think there were many grammatical or spelling errors in my PA book, I know that it would have greatly benefited from some content editing. Now, am I dead sure on the very few spelling and grammatical errors? Nope, just haven't heard too much feedback on it.

Feedback...hmmmm, what a word. You see when they accepted my book I thought I was getting feedback. I thought they were saying it was decent. Well hardy, har, har, the joke was on me. I'm still at square one.

The sad thing is I know there have to be many PA books that are really good. I feel bad for those who may ditch writing due to low sales figures. Sometimes there is a need to take emotion out of the equation, but it can be really hard to do. Pa callously plays on emotions.


Chang-from the blurb you posted, your book sounds interesting.

Kelly
 

Sher2

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WhisperingBard said:
Re: PA's new "partners." Is it possible they're adding on new ones in the hopes of spreading around the blame when the end finally comes? Or perhaps they're setting up the new partners so the Big Three can abscond before things get any hotter?

Just musing.
Bard, I think you may well have hit the nail on the head. I honestly don't see how things could get much hotter without their simply spontaneously combusting. It's got to be approaching critical mass. Something's got to give.
 

Gratian Gasparri

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The reason behind the new partners is obvious...

Sher2 said:
Bard, I think you may well have hit the nail on the head. I honestly don't see how things could get much hotter without their simply spontaneously combusting. It's got to be approaching critical mass. Something's got to give.

I think the reason they have added new partners was because they hope to give new meaning to the expression vanity publisher. Just think, "For a symbolic financial investment of $1, you too can be a publisher!"

They may even change their name to PartnerAmerica.
 
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Sher2

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Gratian Gasparri said:
I think the reason they have added new partners was because they hope to give new meaning to the expression vanity publisher. Just think, "For a symbolic financial investment of $1, you too can be a publisher!"

They may even change their name to PartnerAmerica.
Lord Almighty, there's a partnership made in hell. It's too unholy to even think about.
 

MartyKay

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On the topic of the "editing"/"non-editing" streams...

I noticed the comments earlier (much much earlier) about PA and how it hires new graduates to do the alleged editing work. Now, if PA is saying it will either edit the book and will take much longer to get out, or not edit the book and the author gets it "published" much earlier, I think I know why.

They want to sack a bunch of the editors. I don't think they have that many now, and from all the other commentary the ones they do have aren't professionals. Even so I've seen lots of comments on the PA boards about how long it takes for a book to come out, so these editors are probably flat out (running spell check in Word :) ).

If they offer the no-edit stream, they will be able to do two things at once -- cut costs by hiring fewer editors, and eliminate criticism of their lack of editing ability because I think they will push for the "no-edit" stream, maybe even offer some kind of bonus for using it. Then authors complaining about the lack of editing will be given the "don't take that tone, YOU edited it!" letter (still being written up).

(apologies if anyone else has already mentioned this possible rationale)

Why would they need to cut editorial staff, even though they don't HIRE professional editors and probably don't pay much more than minimum wage (if that)? Could they be having... money troubles???
 

Patricia

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MartyKay said:
They want to sack a bunch of the editors. I don't think they have that many now, and from all the other commentary the ones they do have aren't professionals. Even so I've seen lots of comments on the PA boards about how long it takes for a book to come out, so these editors are probably flat out (running spell check in Word :) ).

You make a good point. Another thought is that there have been many on the PA boards saying they were going to hire professional editors before submitting their next ms. I think PA is taking advantage of those people doing so to get out of any conflict that would reflect back on their poor editing/revision methods. In thinking about it, if PA authors hire professionals, it makes PA look good with no effort on their part and certainly no out of pocket money for them.

I think it's great. To the innocent eyes it makes them look more like what they are -- V-A-N-I-T-Y! They are so "stipid!"
 

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Here's another thought...

What happens if majority of authors ask for editing? And since they specifically ask for editing in exchange for longer wait, I think the authors would expect a real editing and be upset if they find out PA only ran spell/grammar check.

Wouldn't it be funny if their plan backfired??:tongue
 

MacAllister

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Porting over from new thread (now closed)

The New Yorker

PublishAnyone in breach of contract
I've heard people say they are trying to get out of PublishAmerica contracts.
Well, they just nixed mine and returned my rights to me on the basis of Par. 25 (supposed author hindrance).
I didn't hinder anything. I received the author copies with the letter encouraging me to send any suggestions for corrections within 10 days. So I did. I told them the quality and layout looked poor. Sent them a wish list of corrections I wanted implemented if possible, such as larger fonts, wider gutter, what have you. I also brought up the myth of brick-and-mortar bookstores, and the fact that it was beginning to feel to me like a do-it-yourself-publishing-co.
Well, I was a bit New York sarcastic, hell, I thought it was pretty funny.
Apparently PA does not have a sense of humor, because they sent me a 2-line letter telling me my contract is nixed and my rights have been returned to me. It was the notorious Janet Morissey - I've heard her name mentioned by other unhappy authors.
Perhaps I'm fortunate that they nixed me because the more I read about them the more they seemed like a really lousy place to publish with. It is obvious that what they did was illegal - there was no grounds to end the contract, and I could possibly sue. But either way - if anyone really wants out, it looks like I inadvertantly found a way.
NYC

#2
Ann
Originally Posted by The New Yorker
I've heard people say they are trying to get out of PublishAmerica contracts.
Well, they just nixed mine and returned my rights to me on the basis of Par. 25 (supposed author hindrance).
NYC
Way to go! You won't be sorry! You need to post this report on the "never-ending-PA thread." It would be a great encouragement to some over there.

Thanks for sharing. . .
__________________
Ann
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"Never give up. Never give up. Never, never, never give up."
Churchill

#3

MacAllister

Actually--since Victoria isn't here, and Jenna has asked that we don't start new PA threads--I'm going to just port this over to the NeverEnding thread. :)

cheers!

 
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Patricia

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Crunchy Frog said:
What happens if majority of authors ask for editing? And since they specifically ask for editing in exchange for longer wait, I think the authors would expect a real editing and be upset if they find out PA only ran spell/grammar check.

Wouldn't it be funny if their plan backfired??:tongue


Love that thought Crunchy -- hang on to it! :snoopy:
 

Diana Hignutt

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Success impossible with PA books

underthecity said:
Isn't it ironic? The success that their authors are working so hard to achieve will be forever squelched by their own publisher, who works against them at every turn. Their basic POD model prevents a bestseller. The lack of distribution and returns prevent boostores sales. Authors can never succeed. It's impossible. I think Diana Hignutt can testify that (with all due respect, of course).
underthecity

Hello, I'm here to testify that true publishing success is impossible under PublishAmerica. Certainly, it is possible, with great effort and perserverance, to get a few bookstores to stock your book, but despite the most energetic and stalwart attempts, little beyond that is possible. Take my PA book as an example. It was a fantasy novel written primarily for a mainstream audience, but with a strong niche audience built right in. The book was the story of a prince who must become a princess in order to defeat a sinister demon. I bought John Kremer's 1001 Ways to Market Your Book which PA recommended and tried many of the things there suggested. First, I sent about 25 review copies to the biggies: PW, NY Times, LA Times, Booklist, Science Fiction Chronicle, etc., plus my local papers. No luck on the biggies, obviously, but I managed to get stories on me and my book, and/or book reviews in: Philadelphia Inquirer, Courier Post, Gloucester County Times, Philadelphia Gay News, The Daily Journal, and a cover story in Philadelphia Weekly. I also worked hard to get interviews and reviews in the tg niche (though national or international) pubs: Transgender Tapestry, TG Community News, TG Forum. I got major coverage in the tg websites, as well. The Philly Inquirer helped me get some national tv coverage: The O'Reilly Factor, The Big Story with Rita Crosby, Real Life with Mary Amorosa. All this helped get my books stocked at a fair number of places: WindChimes Books, Borders (Philly), Barnes and Noble (Philly), Waldenbooks (Cherry Hill Mall), Barnes and Noble (Deptford), International Foundation for Gender Education Bookstore (Waltham, MA-they also took my book with them around the country to conventions, etc). There were a few other places, I just don't remember. I paid a lot of money and ran three ads in Radio-TV Interview Report which netted me interviews on hundreds of radio stations across North America. Eventually, my book was nominated for the 2004 Spectrum Award. I didn't have much of a chance there, though, due both to the editing problems with the book and the fact that PA ignored requests from the award people for copies of the book.

All of that, and I'm sure I've forgotten a lot, and I sold about 700 copies or so. Of course, it's possible that the book, just sucked, but most reviews were positive:

"XXXXXXXX is a thrilling adventure that explores gender through a protagonist who's at first horrified at his transformation, but eventually comes to accept herself as a woman, and even finds love with the woman he'd met before his change. XXXXXXX is a wonderful book."

-Erik Swallow, Lamda Rising


"Harry Potter for adults"
-Louie Free - AM1360, Cleveland


"The new novel XXXXXX is an action-packed saga of sorcery, secrets and surprises... a rollicking epic..."
-Kevin Riordan - The Courier Post

"one of America's next great rulers of the fantasy world"
-Kristan Ryan, editor, awomanswrite.com

The title of the novel was, of course, not XXXXXXX.

At great expense, and so much time and energy that I'm still tired from it--I acheived a great deal of "success" with that novel. Unless, you count success as book sales, of course. The only thing I really acheived was a reduction in my bank account and getting press that PublishAmerica used to gain more doe-eyed authors to use as grist for their mill. It will only be harder for PA authors to "enjoy" even that level of success, as the industry has learned so much more about PA since my book came out in 2002. The PA business plan (as underthecity pointed out, and as I tried to illustrate) does not allow for success of their authors.

The good news here. I got my book back. Look for it this fall at a bookstore near you, in a wholly revised (and re-edited) edition titled Moonspell, Book I of the Moonsword Trilogy (Behler).

Sure, a few PA authors with relatively strong books will find their way to get a bookstore or two to stock their books. Sure, they'll sell a few copies, but in the end their hard work will just be used by PA to suck more authors into their web of lies. Is that really literary success? It didn't feel like it to me.


diana
 
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cwgranny

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I suspect the editing/nonediting thing will work this way...

__ if you choose edting, they won't accept ANY corrections by the author (which often went the way of "hey, you screwed up the parts that were right! Put 'em back.") and will say "You agreed to accept our editing." I believe when they mention the authors who didn't want them to edit, they mean folks like Nancy Mehl who got angry when PA INTRODUCED errors instead of eliminating them and wanted the book to be AT LEAST as good as she sent it.

__ if you choose NO editing, they can avoid correcting all the formatting errors that occur when you feed a .doc file into Adobe. When folks complain, they will say, "Hey, you said you didn't want any editing -- this is exactly what you gave us, all we did was transform it into the right file type.

It smells like a "we're going to screw you and you're going to like it" tactic...one of PA's favorites. No matter which you choose, they get to do less work than they presently do.

gran
 
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Ed Williams

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If you think about it...

....if PA is hurting (and it sure looks like they are), they can do one of two things - reform, or get worse. It looks pretty obvious with their new "no editing" option and their recent contract offering that they're opting for the latter. I think we all sometimes lose sight of the fact that the people running PA are true shysters, crooks, and maybe even worse. Our better natures just want to think that they are simply misguided or something. Basically, they are evil people who have no intention of helping anyone other than themselves, their singular goal is to put as much money into their pockets as they can. Think about it - if you think about the history of PA and what they've done, no reasonable person could deduce anything other. Larry Clopper seems to be despised in his own hometown, I'm not even saying anything about Moe-randa (but y'all know what I'm thinking), and Curlem ran an out-and-out vanity press before PA. And, on top of all that, they're all failed writers with huge chips on their shoulders.

Folks, Dave expresses this far better than I do, but we gotta keep the pressure up. Good things are happening......

P.S. One other thing - I'm starting to think that maybe PA deliberately let our dearly departed Easter weekend author "buddy" twist in the wind so that he would leave them. Maybe they caught on to the fact that he was costing them more than what he was worth...
 
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robeiae

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Ed Williams said:
....if PA is hurting (and it sure looks like they are), they can do one of two things - reform, or get worse. It looks pretty obvious with their new "no editing" option and their recent contract offering that they're opting for the latter.
Hmmm...do you think they are actually convincing themselves that it's really the former?

And, on top of all that, they're all failed writers with huge chips on their shoulders.
C'mon Ed, what about all those great press releases...they're works of art!

P.S. One other thing - I'm starting to think that maybe PA deliberately let our dearly departed Easter weekend author "buddy" twist in the wind so that he would leave them. Maybe they caught on to the fact that he was costing them more than what he was worth...
What does this mean for your nespotism theory? Pretty cruel...

Rob
 

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Diana Hignutt said:
Hello, I'm here to testify that true publishing success is impossible under PublishAmerica. Certainly, it is possible, with great effort and perserverance, to get a few bookstores to stock your book, but despite the most energetic and stalwart attempts, little beyond that is possible. Take my PA book as an example. It was a fantasy novel written primarily for a mainstream audience, but with a strong niche audience built right in. The book was the story of a prince who must become a princess in order to defeat a sinister demon. I bought John Kremer's 1001 Ways to Market Your Book which PA recommended and tried many of the things there suggested. First, I sent about 25 review copies to the biggies: PW, NY Times, LA Times, Booklist, Science Fiction Chronicle, etc., plus my local papers. No luck on the biggies, obviously, but I managed to get stories on me and my book, and/or book reviews in: Philadelphia Inquirer, Courier Post, Gloucester County Times, Philadelphia Gay News, The Daily Journal, and a cover story in Philadelphia Weekly. I also worked hard to get interviews and reviews in the tg niche (though national or international) pubs: Transgender Tapestry, TG Community News, TG Forum. I got major coverage in the tg websites, as well. The Philly Inquirer helped me get some national tv coverage: The O'Reilly Factor, The Big Story with Rita Crosby, Real Life with Mary Amorosa. All this helped get my books stocked at a fair number of places: WindChimes Books, Borders (Philly), Barnes and Noble (Philly), Waldenbooks (Cherry Hill Mall), Barnes and Noble (Deptford), International Foundation for Gender Education Bookstore (Waltham, MA-they also took my book with them around the country to conventions, etc). There were a few other places, I just don't remember. I paid a lot of money and ran three ads in Radio-TV Interview Report which netted me interviews on hundreds of radio stations across North America. Eventually, my book was nominated for the 2004 Spectrum Award. I didn't have much of a chance there, though, due both to the editing problems with the book and the fact that PA ignored requests from the award people for copies of the book.

All of that, and I'm sure I've forgotten a lot, and I sold about 700 copies or so. Of course, it's possible that the book, just sucked, but most reviews were positive:



diana

Diana,

I ordered your book from PA when I first started browsing the PA thread after I got my acceptance letter. (The back cover snippet hooked me) Your book was, in one word, AMAZING. Your post is painful, because you put so much of your time and effort and MONEY into making XXXXXXXXXX a success and succeeded in only lining PA's pockets. As Bill Clinton would say "I feel your pain".

When one stops to think about it, PA's business model is absolutely brilliant in it's simplicity. Build a web site that will attract new writers. Print anything and everything, pay the autor a dollar, lock them in for seven years and let them promote themselves for 8% while we (PA) pocket 92%. We have a marketing staff of 11,000. Each staffer is assigned to one book and we know that they'll bust their butt to promote the book beacuse it's THEIRS !!! What a deal, an international marketing staff direct selliing to 50 - 100 family and friends and raiding local bookstores everywhere. ALL FOR A BUCK PLUS 8%. Damn !!! IT doesn't get any better than that for a profit center operation. HIre college kids as editors and then a Morton Downey wannabe (HB) for our public shill and defender. Have him post mindlessly raving about how Saintly and Godly we are to the PA faithful and trample over anyone who may have the nerve to dissent. If our boards get cluttered by probing questions.. make them go away... see "CHARLIE-X" from STAR TREK the original series.

I don't approve of what they're doing or how they're doing it. IT is truly EVIL. But one has to sit back and admire the blatant audacity of pulling such a scheme and actually succeeding with it.

If they cut and run tomorrow, the Unholy Trinity will still have made a heftly buck of the backs of 11,000 people (me included).

MY GOD, it's all so beautifully wicked!!
 

DaveKuzminski

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We haven't seen the last of him. I expect a resurrection. The only questions remaining are when and where.

As to the new general partners, I have several theories as to what's taking place there. One I've already mentioned is that they were allowed to buy into the partnership. If so, then that means that they were blinded by the riches that the stooges put on personal display and bought in believing that they'd soon be living the same life. If so, they're in for a disappointment as PA's sales have to be down at this point because of fewer weekly releases.

Another that's been mentioned is that PA needs someone to take the rap while the stooges go about insulating themselves from daily activities so that they can claim they didn't know what was going on, that the new policies were instituted by the new general partners.

Still another I have is that PA needed to give them an incentive to rigorously backup PA's policies. By giving them a partnership, which they've apparently accepted, PA can rely upon them to help monitor the PA forum and quell dissent along with monitoring other forums because there are now too many critics and dissenters for just three stooges to monitor. The stooges may have even convinced the new partners that they're in too deep to decline, an often used ploy by crooks. They might have even hinted at the use of force by reminding them of the thugs used to protect the previous PA convention.

There may be other more probably possibilities, but these are what come to mind for me first.
 

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Diana,

I'm amazed that with all you did to market your book (I remember it from the PA site and just read your synopsis), your sales were insignificant. I don't mean that like it sounds- you sold tons more than me, thanks to your determination. It sickens me that you got on talk shows yet really didn't make a dent in the kinds of sales that even a small but real traditional press could get for you. I wish you luck with your writing career.
 

Sher2

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Sparhawk said:
When one stops to think about it, PA's business model is absolutely brilliant in it's simplicity. Build a web site that will attract new writers. Print anything and everything, pay the autor a dollar, lock them in for seven years and let them promote themselves for 8% while we (PA) pocket 92%. We have a marketing staff of 11,000. Each staffer is assigned to one book and we know that they'll bust their butt to promote the book beacuse it's THEIRS !!! What a deal, an international marketing staff direct selliing to 50 - 100 family and friends and raiding local bookstores everywhere. ALL FOR A BUCK PLUS 8%. Damn !!! IT doesn't get any better than that for a profit center operation. HIre college kids as editors and then a Morton Downey wannabe (HB) for our public shill and defender. Have him post mindlessly raving about how Saintly and Godly we are to the PA faithful and trample over anyone who may have the nerve to dissent. If our boards get cluttered by probing questions.. make them go away... see "CHARLIE-X" from STAR TREK the original series.
"Evil genius" pretty well describes it. If only they'd put their efforts into something honest, the Unholy Trinity coulda been a star. :mad:
 
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