Mixed race MC's...do it?

L.David said:

I have a YA/coming of age novel and I originally made my MC Filipino because I am Filipino and wanted some of his stories to relate to the Filipino/asian youth.

I decided to change his ethnicity to half canadian/filipino because one of the core themes in my book is about cultural/individual identity, so I thought a mixed race MC would be perfect.

I had his love interest originally be a caucasian girl with an unknown, exotic background (like perhaps Russian/meditt) but now I'm thinking of making her at least half arabic to make her even more exotic, and to identify with the MC.

What do you guys think? Should I keep them bi-racial? I wish I had the guts to go all the way...make the MC Filipino and the LI full arabic, but I have the same hesitations about diversity in my books everyone does.

Click to expand...

what hesitations?

L.David said:

Same stuff I've read in other posts...not being able to sell as well, etc.

Since it's my first book, I want to be able to relate to a broader range of people, and just feel I'm limiting myself by sticking with one minority race. I know it's stupid, and I disagree with the reasons behind it, but I'm also realistic.

Click to expand...

interesting... as you can guess from my first post, i have no idea how this would affect a book's performance. good luck!

You might find this thread interesting: Let's face it: pretty white girls sell

Personally, I hate being called "exotic." It makes me sound "other," not like everyone else, and I don't much like it. So your third paragraph sort of bugged me.

And personally, if I wanted a mixed race MC, I would have a mixed race MC. If I wanted a Filipino MC, I would have a Filipino MC. Screw whatever other people think. We need more PoC characters. However. I realize not everyone thinks like that.

I am biracial. Often I have seen biracial MC's--at least the white/something else ones, which is pretty much every biracial character anyway--described in reviews as a cop-out, and sometimes I feel a little insulted when it's just stated like that and not explained. But to be fair, sometimes biracial MC's do feel like a cop-out. Like, let's make him different, but not too different so he's essentially white! And then completely ignore any racial issues, identity issues, etc. Not that I need all books with PoC characters to be about race, but these biracial characters often read as an exotic-looking (uggh) white people to me.

So...just don't do that. Don't have a mixed race character instead of a completely Filipino character or whatever so you can ignore the Filipino side and still say, Look! Diversity! I don't get the sense you're going to do that with your MC, as you are saying your book is partly about cultural identity . But your description of the LI made me rather uncomfortable...

So yeah, I would say yes to mixed race characters as long as you are not completely stupid about it.


Oh, and when you say Canadian, do you mean...white?

L.David said:

I have a YA/coming of age novel and I originally made my MC Filipino because I am Filipino and wanted some of his stories to relate to the Filipino/asian youth.

I decided to change his ethnicity to half canadian/filipino because one of the core themes in my book is about cultural/individual identity, so I thought a mixed race MC would be perfect.

I had his love interest originally be a caucasian girl with an unknown, exotic background (like perhaps Russian/meditt) but now I'm thinking of making her at least half arabic to make her even more exotic, and to identify with the MC.

What do you guys think? Should I keep them bi-racial? I wish I had the guts to go all the way...make the MC Filipino and the LI full arabic, but I have the same hesitations about diversity in my books everyone does.

Click to expand...

L.David said:

Since it's my first book, I want to be able to relate to a broader range of people, and just feel I'm limiting myself by sticking with one minority race. I know it's stupid, and I disagree with the reasons behind it, but I'm also realistic.

Click to expand...

Well, there undoubtedly are successful novels featuring very little to no white people (assuming that's what you mean by wanting to reach a "broader range of people"). The Kite Runner comes to mind.

If you want to create cultural diversity without making your MCs multi-racial you could also have them grow up outside the region of their ethnic heritage. It instills diversity and deeper understandings of race and ethnicity, even if the person has no ties to the region.

For example: I'm 75% European, 25% Lebanese/Syrian, American, and grew up in Saudi Arabia.

As with LJD, I cringed at the term 'exotic'.

In one WIP, I do have a 'mixed' MC - her mum is Anglo Indian (white person from India) and her dad is an American, but his parents are from the same neighbourhood as the mum, and he's fully Goan (Indian).

However, in one of the first few pages, I basically do a quick send-up of the whole 'exotic' thing. Since it's Fantasy, there isn't that much in the story itself that's central to her being 'mixed race' or part Indian beyond what I've put for comic effect here and there...

I've no qualms at all with your reasons for having your MC as from a mixed background, but I also don't see the point of putting in characters of 'x' background into a novel simply for the sake of 'diversity' either. IMO, it should feel organic, rather than 'tacked on'. Like maybe a different race/ethnic background for the LI, but the same religion, etc.

L.David said:

I have a YA/coming of age novel and I originally made my MC Filipino because I am Filipino and wanted some of his stories to relate to the Filipino/asian youth.

I decided to change his ethnicity to half canadian/filipino because one of the core themes in my book is about cultural/individual identity, so I thought a mixed race MC would be perfect.

I had his love interest originally be a caucasian girl with an unknown, exotic background (like perhaps Russian/meditt) but now I'm thinking of making her at least half arabic to make her even more exotic, and to identify with the MC.

What do you guys think? Should I keep them bi-racial? I wish I had the guts to go all the way...make the MC Filipino and the LI full arabic, but I have the same hesitations about diversity in my books everyone does.

Click to expand...

I would strongly encourage you not to describe someone with mixed background as "exotic." Like, I'm white so admitted I haven't been personally affected by this, but a lot of my friends are mixed and it is really uncomfortable when they are referred to as exotic--it leads to fetishizing and stuff like that, which has been a huge problem for those communities.

The thing about writing mixed race people (which I think is a very good idea) is you have to research multiple cultural backgrounds, how those might blend, what environment the MC was raised in, how that impacts their identity, how their parents viewed their identity, etc. It is definitely something you have to do carefully.

The main character in my current project is mixed--his mom is Mexican and his dad Egyptian--and so I've been talking to people about their experiences to try and get stuff right. DiversityCrossCheck over on tumblr is a very good resource for this.

Why are you worried about making your MC full Filipino, though?

Wilde_at_heart said:

As with LJD, I cringed at the term 'exotic'.

In one WIP, I do have a 'mixed' MC - her mum is Anglo Indian (white person from India) and her dad is an American, but his parents are from the same neighbourhood as the mum, and he's fully Goan (Indian).

However, in one of the first few pages, I basically do a quick send-up of the whole 'exotic' thing. Since it's Fantasy, there isn't that much in the story itself that's central to her being 'mixed race' or part Indian beyond what I've put for comic effect here and there...

I've no qualms at all with your reasons for having your MC as from a mixed background, but I also don't see the point of putting in characters of 'x' background into a novel simply for the sake of 'diversity' either. IMO, it should feel organic, rather than 'tacked on'. Like maybe a different race/ethnic background for the LI, but the same religion, etc.

Click to expand...

Doesn't Anglo-Indian also apply to the people who's ancestors are of mixed Indian and European heritage? I think I recall hearing that somewhere.

Lillith1991 said:

Doesn't Anglo-Indian also apply to the people who's ancestors are of mixed Indian and European heritage? I think I recall hearing that somewhere.

Click to expand...

I should have been more clear - 'Anglo' itself usually pertains to just English or from the UK but, much like in Quebec, can apply to any white, English-speaking person. According to some, it applies to people of mixed English/Indian heritage (still within India, though; not so much in NA or Europe) while others apply it just to Indian-born 'Brits'. My fully Indian spouse's uncle is married to the latter.

Someone half-Portuguese and half-Indian would be called mixed, but not Anglo.

L.David said:

Why are people so offended by the word exotic? That's not the wording I'm using in my story btw, that's just for the sake of this message board. I assure you I know how to write without using bland generic terms like exotic.

I'm sorry if I offended you by the term. As a person of color myself though, I don't mind if people refer to me as such. I guess its all about how you see yourself. I'm proud of the fact I look different, but when I was growing up it confused and frustrated me. That's where my characters are coming from.

Click to expand...

Exotic: very different, strange, or unusual

It's not really anything more than what I said above: It focuses on how I'm "other" and not like everyone else. It feels like my otherness is being fetishized. The term doesn't offend me so much as it makes me roll my eyes.

I'm fine with how I look. I have no problem with who I am. But being called exotic is similar to how I get annoyed when people ask me, "What are you?" before they even know my name--people seem incapable of having a conversation with me without slotting me into a box. It focuses on my otherness first and foremost. Rather than the fact that I'm, you know, a person.

L.David said:

I don't think those two things are similar. If someone wants to refer to your ethnic origin, what should they say? Some people get offended by asian, hispanic, minority, etc...

Personally I think we are too PC in this country. Unless its a derogatory term, I don't think people should have the need to feel defensive by what people call them.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I really just wanted to know the pros/cons of having a full minority MC opposed to a bi-racial MC

Click to expand...

The problem with "exotic" is that when you use it on people, what you're saying is that they're alien/mysterious/unusual/abnormal/strange. It says that someone isn't normal. I mean, think about it. If something is "exotic" that means something else is "normal." If non-white peoples and cultures are what is exotic, then white culture becomes the baseline, the norm, which is offensive. No culture or people are the default.

I'm not very good at articulating myself but here's an article.

It's okay if you yourself are POC and aren't offended by it. You don't have to be, and I'm not telling you to be. I'm just trying to explain why other people are bothered by it and why it's probably not the best term to describe people by.

I definitely wouldn't call someone not your race "exotic," and that extends to your Arab character--it will probably really irritate a lot of Arab people, especially because the whole "exotic Middle Eastern girl" is a pretty big stereotype they get stuck with.

L.David said:

Full Definition of EXOTIC

1
: introduced from another country : not native to the place where found <exotic plants>
2
archaic : foreign, alien
3
: strikingly, excitingly, or mysteriously different or unusual <exotic flavors>

These don't sound like negative things to me.

Click to expand...

Those sound like negative things to me.

Personally I think we are too PC in this country. Unless its a derogatory term, I don't think people should have the need to feel defensive by what people call them.

Click to expand...

Personally, I think people should be able to feel what they feel without someone else coming in to tell them they are "too PC" or that they don't have the "need to feel defensive by what people call them".

If you don't mind being called "exotic," that's fine. No one call tell you how to feel. But please don't try to tell other people how they should feel. Thanks.

I'd go with more eye-rollingly cheesy than offensive, but that's just me.

It also puts a person up on a very wobbly pedestal.

Sort of like, ooh, you're from India! how cool! See my Shiva tat? What do you think?

Oh, so you're Catholic, not Hindu... and you were born in Cleveland... kthanksbuhbye!

L.David said:

I'm not trying to tell someone how to feel, I'm simply suggesting that it's not offensive unless you take it that way. I could be offended by all sorts of things people call me, but I choose not to,

Click to expand...

By this logic, no one should ever be offended unless the choose to be. There's a whole string of racial slurs I can throw in right now and just say "it's only offensive if you take it that way."

Sorry, being "offended" is not a choice. You are or you aren't.

And yes, you are trying to tell people how to feel:

Personally I think we are too PC in this country. Unless its a derogatory term, I don't think people should have the need to feel defensive by what people call them.

Click to expand...

L.David said:

because I encourage people to talk about race. People are afraid to talk about racial issues for fear of offending and I think that's why we have the problems we do.

Click to expand...

I think we should talk about race too. Let's start with not blaming the people who are offended for "taking it that way."

L.David said:

I guess I still don't understand why having an unusual look or being foreign is offensive. You can pretend we look just as normal as everyone else in this country, but we don't, and we don't get treated as such.

Click to expand...

Because I'm *not* unusual. I'm *not* foreign. I *am* normal.

We should talk about why we are not being treated as normal. Why are we still perceived as being foreign? Why are we still considered unusual?

L.David said:

White is still the predominant race in America, and I actually find it offensive to pretend its anything different.

Click to expand...

Predominate =/= normal. And I actually find it offensive to pretend that it is.

L.David said:

Myself, as well as my characters, are minorities, people from foreign places, ie: not USA, so that's going to drive their motivations and values in mixing into the American culture. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, especially as I speak from direct experience.

Click to expand...

Minority =/= not from the US.

Many minorities are from the US. Many of them for several generations already. To say that these people are unusual, not normal, and still considered foreign is offensive. IMO.

L.David said:

I guess I still don't understand why having an unusual look or being foreign is offensive. You can pretend we look just as normal as everyone else in this country, but we don't, and we don't get treated as such.

Click to expand...

You're talking about two different things though. No, racial minorities don't look white, and they do experience discrimination for it, that's true. But just because they're not white doesn't mean they don't look "normal," you know?

L.David said:

White is still the predominant race in America, and I actually find it offensive to pretend its anything different.

Click to expand...

No one's pretending white people aren't the majority, we're just saying that referring to non-white people as "exotic" simply because there are less of them than white people is kind of annoying.

L.David said:

Myself, as well as my characters, are minorities, people from foreign places, ie: not USA, so that's going to drive their motivations and values in mixing into the American culture. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, especially as I speak from direct experience.

Click to expand...

I didn't say there was anything wrong with you writing minorities or their experiences, so I'm not sure where you're getting that.

But racial minority is not the same as foreign. My family is foreign-born but we are white. Most black people have had family in the States for generations, as is true for a lot of Hispanic and East Asian people as well.

It's fine if your character is both a racial minority and foreign, but that's not the same thing. Conflating the two contributes to a lot of other stereotypes, such as my Asian friends getting asked "Where are you from? No, but where are you really from?" when they were born in Charlotte NC, and then people telling me that my parents couldn't possibly be immigrants because "you're white!" as if white people sprouted up from the dirt or something.

Idk, just try not to get those confused, I guess?

L.David said:

...

To Little Ming-actually if you go back to the top of this thread, you'll see this conversation started when people, mostly of caucasian descent, felt the need to call me out for using the term exotic in a negative way, even though I obviously had no intention of doing so. I didn't start the discussion by saying these are terms people have to get used to, I'm simply defending my right to say it.

I just find it funny that I "can't" use a term to describe something that I am.

Click to expand...

I find it funny you think anyone said or even implied you "can't" use the term.

No one said you "can't" use it. And no one said you have to "defend [your] right to say it."

You can say whatever you want (within board rules).

But freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences, and the "consequences" here is there are people who are offended by the term. We don't have to defend our right to say that either.