Relationship with editor, is this normal?

Iidoni

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Hi there folks. Apologies for coming in all fresh and new and then starting a question thread so quickly after joining, but I've got an ongoing situation and I'm losing sleep over it.

Also, this is such a long post... I promise that reading it will make you a richer human being and more attractive to the gender and orientation of your choice.

So, I have a contracted publishing deal with a small press publisher. My editor is also an author with the press and the owner of the company.

He gave me some notes on my first draft, which I went through (probably not perfectly) and was told that he wanted to go straight to work on the final manuscript. His plan was that we'd have a meeting over skype once a week and we would simultaneously edit the manuscript into its final form AND typeset it at once. This seemed a bit strange, but the idea of having written a perfect novel stoked my vanity and so I went with it.

The arrangement lasted for four sessions, at which point we reached a part of the book that makes me think he might not have actually read the manuscript beyond chapter three. There's a big twist early on where the protagonist finds out that what he thought was a missing persons case is actually his family's history catching up with him. It's the 'first disturbance', and it involves the character he's been paid to find turning out to be fictitious, and the person who hired the protagonist turning up dead. He's alone and in trouble, and so the actual book can begin.

My editor had no idea about this, and it hit him like a ton of bricks. Called a two week break and I didn't see him again for three months.

I saw him again by accident when I was working at a conference. He wanted to resume out sessions, but I'd started work on publishing something with a friend and I said I'd go back to it the following April, if he was interested. He wasn't happy, but he agreed.

I got back in touch, I said that I wanted to work with him, but not in that way: that I thought it would be better to do a more normal system of sending drafts back and forth before we did any typesetting. I also offered to do the typesetting and basic design on the interiors if would help (I have experience of typesetting for print and that sort of thing), and he agreed.

I wrote a new draft. This one was much simpler with no twist (which was probably a good thing) and fewer characters. He'd found the original plot too confusing so I paired it right back to 'guy stumbles into his buddy's problems, now he's on the run,' which was also probably a good thing.

I sent it, he said it was late, and so he'd have to get to it when he was back from a book tour, which was fine. It probably was late. I asked if he'd mind helping me to cut it down to the world limit. It wasn't badly over, but I'd already cut a lot out and I was at the point where I just couldn't see what needed to go anymore. He said he'd get to it when he got back from his book tour.

Three months later my wife, who was the cover designer, had to drop out. I told him and offered to pay part of the cost of hiring a new cover designer. He agreed. During the conversation he asked if I'd ever finished the manuscript. I re-sent it and asked him to send me his specs for what he wanted on the cover. I have no particular opinion about that sort of thing, I'm not a very visual person, but if I was going to be handling getting the cover sorted out I wanted to get the damn thing as close to being right first time as possible, since every change was going to cost us money. He never answered.

Five months later I did some spring cleaning on Linked In: I added my new book deal (another small publisher, this time a history book) and my new column on a website (it's quite high-traffic for it's niche, so I thought it was worth putting on) and suddenly this guy is emailing me again.

He's either completely ignored or forgotten my last email, and he's forgotten how long the book is (he now thinks it's 20,000 words over, it was about 7,000 words over). He wants yet another copy of the manuscript, and wants to know what's going on with the cover (nothing, because I'm not spending any money until we have some kind of plan,) and seems to think that we agreed at some point that I was going to typeset the interiors of the book already, which would be a mad thing to do since it doesn't look like he's read the bloody manuscript.

On top of that his main reason for not getting back to me is that he keeps getting invited on foreign book tours... but I have friends who run small publishing companies, I've run a bookshop, and I've got friends who are themselves published authors. I know how big you have to be to get continual foreign book tours, and I've not been able to find any evidence that either he or his company are that big.

Is this normal? Am I just not understanding the industry? If so, all good: I'll get on with things. If not, what should I do?
 

shadowwalker

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Just from what you've said, it sounds like a self-publisher who decided to set up shop and act like he knew how to publish others. If it were me, I'd be seeing about cancelling the contract and getting your rights back.
 

T Robinson

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Run!

"The Shadow knows the hearts of men." Cut your losses.

Reading what you wrote, one thing came to the fore. I hope there is no money flowing to the other person, because it sure sounds like a con to me.

I'll go one step further, listen to Shadowwalker. Please.

If there is no contract..........ask for advice.

I re-read, you do have a contract...check it close.
 
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cornflake

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So, I have a contracted publishing deal with a small press publisher. My editor is also an author with the press and the owner of the company.

No. No. No. Run away very fast.

He gave me some notes on my first draft, which I went through (probably not perfectly) and was told that he wanted to go straight to work on the final manuscript.

No.
His plan was that we'd have a meeting over skype once a week and we would simultaneously edit the manuscript into its final form AND typeset it at once. This seemed a bit strange, but the idea of having written a perfect novel stoked my vanity and so I went with it.

Oh my god, no.

My editor had no idea about this, and it hit him like a ton of bricks. Called a two week break and I didn't see him again for three months.

Run.

I saw him again by accident when I was working at a conference. He wanted to resume out sessions, but I'd started work on publishing something with a friend and I said I'd go back to it the following April, if he was interested. He wasn't happy, but he agreed.

I got back in touch, I said that I wanted to work with him, but not in that way: that I thought it would be better to do a more normal system of sending drafts back and forth before we did any typesetting. I also offered to do the typesetting and basic design on the interiors if would help (I have experience of typesetting for print and that sort of thing), and he agreed.

I wrote a new draft. This one was much simpler with no twist (which was probably a good thing) and fewer characters. He'd found the original plot too confusing so I paired it right back to 'guy stumbles into his buddy's problems, now he's on the run,' which was also probably a good thing.

I sent it, he said it was late, and so he'd have to get to it when he was back from a book tour, which was fine. It probably was late. I asked if he'd mind helping me to cut it down to the world limit. It wasn't badly over, but I'd already cut a lot out and I was at the point where I just couldn't see what needed to go anymore. He said he'd get to it when he got back from his book tour.

Three months later my wife, who was the cover designer, had to drop out. I told him and offered to pay part of the cost of hiring a new cover designer. He agreed. During the conversation he asked if I'd ever finished the manuscript. I re-sent it and asked him to send me his specs for what he wanted on the cover. I have no particular opinion about that sort of thing, I'm not a very visual person, but if I was going to be handling getting the cover sorted out I wanted to get the damn thing as close to being right first time as possible, since every change was going to cost us money. He never answered.

Five months later I did some spring cleaning on Linked In: I added my new book deal (another small publisher, this time a history book) and my new column on a website (it's quite high-traffic for it's niche, so I thought it was worth putting on) and suddenly this guy is emailing me again.

He's either completely ignored or forgotten my last email, and he's forgotten how long the book is (he now thinks it's 20,000 words over, it was about 7,000 words over). He wants yet another copy of the manuscript, and wants to know what's going on with the cover (nothing, because I'm not spending any money until we have some kind of plan,) and seems to think that we agreed at some point that I was going to typeset the interiors of the book already, which would be a mad thing to do since it doesn't look like he's read the bloody manuscript.

On top of that his main reason for not getting back to me is that he keeps getting invited on foreign book tours... but I have friends who run small publishing companies, I've run a bookshop, and I've got friends who are themselves published authors. I know how big you have to be to get continual foreign book tours, and I've not been able to find any evidence that either he or his company are that big.

Is this normal? Am I just not understanding the industry? If so, all good: I'll get on with things. If not, what should I do?

You should read anything you signed to cancel any doings with him and get your ms. and rights in hand.
 

Marian Perera

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Is this normal? Am I just not understanding the industry?

Well, I'm also published with a small press. I'm not sure how your editor planned to get your manuscript into its final form. But maybe that's just me because my manuscripts undergo up to three rounds with my editor (no skype, though) and then another round or two with a final line editor before I get the final copy to read.

I've never typeset a manuscript, though, and wouldn't offer to do it if I could - that's my publisher's responsibility. If you were typesetting and your wife was providing cover design (or you were paying for that), it sounds to me like you could do just fine on your own with a freelance editor.

And sometimes even the best editors miss small details, but being stunned by a twist in the manuscript and going incommunicado for three months is, um, unusual.

He wanted to resume out sessions, but I'd started work on publishing something with a friend and I said I'd go back to it the following April, if he was interested.

I find this odd as well. Was there no deadline in the contract about when the book had to be released? I also need good communication in an editor, so being ignored for five months would have me searching for a different publisher.

Basically, no, nothing about your experience sounds normal, unless by that you mean normal for a publisher who doesn't know what the hell they're doing.
 

Old Hack

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Nothing about this sounds good to me.

Get out of your contract. Do it as soon as you can.

ETA: Who is this publisher? Can you tell us?
 

Iidoni

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Hi there guys, thanks for this. I absolutely hate killing off a project like this because a huge part of me screams that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, but even if it was true I've got another project going on that's more central to my career (and my other editor doesn't do this sh*t, which is one of the things that rings alarm bells.)

ETA: Who is this publisher? Can you tell us?

I'm very tempted to, but I won't. The fact is that they do get some books out, and some authors have two and three books in print with them. I think the worst thing you can say about this publisher is that, as one poster said right at the start of the thread, it's a self-publishing author who's decided to set up a publishing house.

I think I'll send him an email back plainly stating the situation and move on. He's welcome to spend thousands of pounds suing me, but I've got plenty of evidence that he's breached the contract. I've worked for a solicitor and organised cases, I'm quite happy to give him his day in court if he wants it.

Thanks again everyone.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Legitimate small presses operated by knowledgeable editors who love books can be wonderful, but nothing about this situation sounds good. or normal.

My advice? Trust your writing. Believe in your writing. Give it a chance to fly at a better, more established and trustworthy publisher, whatever the size.

It does sound like you may have learned a few things from this experience, such as how to tighten the manuscript, and how to do some rewriting. Use this knowledge, and then submit to a real publisher who knows and loves both books and publishing.
 

Debbie V

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Two in the bush are great to have, if they aren't already rotting. Glad you are running.
 

Zenning

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Sorry for what you are going through, but thanks for posting this. As a newbie, I learned. I wonder what does it take to pull out of the contract? $$$? And… the editor is also an author. Is this not a good indication? I have also queried an agent who is an author… hmmm...
 

veinglory

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Wow. Even if you had not struck issues why make editing so %^*$#@ complicated? This editor did not, it seems, take the time to read the book before acquiring, but he will invested hours across weeks with endless Skyping?

I agree with the other posts. Just because he didn't know what book he had acquired does not meant you should try and back engineer your book into what he wanted.
 

lauralam

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I'd be unlikely to work with a publisher where they publish their own stuff as well. It's a conflict of interest, IMO.

Glad you're running.
 

Emmet Cameron

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Zenning, there are plenty of great agent/author and editor/author combos out there. My agent is an author, and I think it makes her particularly excellent at certain aspects of agenting, like understanding what the submission process feels like on my end.

BUT, it's important to be aware that there are also a lot of dodgy small presses out there, and one red flag to watch out for is if the press seems to have been established to publish the editor's own work. A helpful post.

In terms of author/agents, I'd watch out for the same stuff you should watch out for in all agents. Experience in the industry. Sales track record. Being with an established agency (or having successful previous experience with an established agency before starting their own).
 

gingerwoman

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Hi there guys, thanks for this. I absolutely hate killing off a project like this because a huge part of me screams that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, but even if it was true I've got another project going on that's more central to my career (and my other editor doesn't do this sh*t, which is one of the things that rings alarm bells.)



I'm very tempted to, but I won't. The fact is that they do get some books out, and some authors have two and three books in print with them. I think the worst thing you can say about this publisher is that, as one poster said right at the start of the thread, it's a self-publishing author who's decided to set up a publishing house.

I think I'll send him an email back plainly stating the situation and move on. He's welcome to spend thousands of pounds suing me, but I've got plenty of evidence that he's breached the contract. I've worked for a solicitor and organised cases, I'm quite happy to give him his day in court if he wants it.

Thanks again everyone.
I was about to say "I bet if you look at your contract he's already breached it with all the messing around", but it looks like you figured that out. Sorry this happened to you.