The Firearms Thread (Questions and Discussions)

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Drachen Jager

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Found this for another thread. (resized to 1/3, if it's still too big, someone let me know)

Complete-Rifle-Ammunition-Guide-Comparison_sm.jpg

mQ8JrdRb4W3EoI0C5+ftAHEKpuZDVXrOs6wi0tF2Aatz0j1ghLu2MQYWBIfXZcGUhv8D9oFCwtUdcwgAAAAASUVORK5CYII=
 
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MichaelZWilliamson

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"Complete"?

Pish. I don't see .43 Egyptian, 8mm Kropatchek, 11.25X60R Mauser, 7.5mm Swedish Nagant, 7.5mm Swiss revolver, or 10.4mm Italian.

Nor .32 Rimfire, .38 Rimfire or .41 Rimfire.

I don't see .56 Spencer.

But they do have 8mm Lebel revolver at least. Do they have any in stock?
 

MichaelZWilliamson

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They do have quite a few oddballs on there, and it's a great comparison for what's there, which does include a lot of obsolete stuff.

I just wish I could find grips for my Italian Bodeo. 10.4mm I can get custom loaded.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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So for Christmas, I got a non-firing replica of a Colt 1873 Revolver to play with and get a feel for it, so I can write with a little more familiarity on it. Surprised at how heavy it is.

But now, after handling it for a few weeks, I want a REAL handgun. Last time I handled any weapon was 1979 in the Navy when we got to fire a military Colt 1911A1 .45 and an M-14 rifle. I really did enjoy the feel of the Colt 1911A1. So now I'm researching firearms in what is probably an exercise in futility because my wife said the only way I could ever get a gun was if I joined the Police force.

However, I did find a gun shop with an indoor range that rents guns, so maybe I'll just go there once in a while. Shooting off various guns will probably help me decide what feels best in my hand.
 

badwolf.usmc

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However, I did find a gun shop with an indoor range that rents guns, so maybe I'll just go there once in a while. Shooting off various guns will probably help me decide what feels best in my hand.

Sounds like a good idea. Everyone should become familiar with firearms before they have them in the home, and while you've had some training it has been awhile. Many ranges have courses you can take which will get you up to speed.

The conversation with the wife about firearms, on the other hand, is something I'm not going to touch with a ten foot pole.
 

Lauram6123

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Let me preface this question by admitting that I know nothing about guns.

Would it be possible if you owned a Smith and Wesson 9mm and someone wrestled it away and pointed it at you, for you to tell if the safety had been engaged? (Let's say they were no more than 3 feet away from you.)
 

MichaelZWilliamson

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The 1873 is a fairly bulky piece by modern standards. My favorite revolver is the 1858 pattern Remington black powder. I have both originals and reproductions.

As to the other, I had an extensive collection before I met my wife, and she's Army Reserve, so there's no problem having the extensive collection.

We started training the kids in use about age 4. Safety starts as soon as they can crawl, with "No!" just as it does for instruments, computers, kitchen knives and anything else.
 

MichaelZWilliamson

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Let me preface this question by admitting that I know nothing about guns.

Would it be possible if you owned a Smith and Wesson 9mm and someone wrestled it away and pointed it at you, for you to tell if the safety had been engaged? (Let's say they were no more than 3 feet away from you.)


This question isn't as simple as it seems. Yes, if you can see the left side of the weapon, you can tell if the safety is engaged. But you should be more concerned with making sure it's not pointed at your mortal coil.

Nor should anyone be able to wrestle it from you. If you have presented a weapon, it should be because you perceived a threat. If they then attack your weapon hand, you should be shooting, unless there are bystanders you're afraid of hitting.

Ideally, you also don't let someone get close enough to wrestle your firearm. That's the whole point of a firearm--avoiding grappling.

It happens occasionally, but it happens a lot more on TV than in real life. At close range, I'd have my off hand up as a block, and the moment they attempted to grapple, I'd shoot and keep shooting until they stopped.
 

Amadan

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Let me preface this question by admitting that I know nothing about guns.

Would it be possible if you owned a Smith and Wesson 9mm and someone wrestled it away and pointed it at you, for you to tell if the safety had been engaged? (Let's say they were no more than 3 feet away from you.)


Possible, yes, though I doubt most people would be able to in such an adrenalized situation. Also, I would hate to bet my life on the safety in that situation (they are pretty reliable, but not 100%).

(Also, what model of S&W 9mm? There are different kinds of safeties - some are not a switch or a lever, but just a sensor in the trigger and grip - meaning, if someone is holding the gun and pointing it at you, the safety is disengaged...)
 

Lauram6123

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Possible, yes, though I doubt most people would be able to in such an adrenalized situation. Also, I would hate to bet my life on the safety in that situation (they are pretty reliable, but not 100%).

(Also, what model of S&W 9mm? There are different kinds of safeties - some are not a switch or a lever, but just a sensor in the trigger and grip - meaning, if someone is holding the gun and pointing it at you, the safety is disengaged...)

Thanks for the quick response. Which type of safety would be most obvious? Would an engaged thumb safety be visible?

Again, I know nothing on this topic, so I apologize for my ignorance.
 

Lauram6123

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This question isn't as simple as it seems. Yes, if you can see the left side of the weapon, you can tell if the safety is engaged. But you should be more concerned with making sure it's not pointed at your mortal coil.

Nor should anyone be able to wrestle it from you. If you have presented a weapon, it should be because you perceived a threat. If they then attack your weapon hand, you should be shooting, unless there are bystanders you're afraid of hitting.

Ideally, you also don't let someone get close enough to wrestle your firearm. That's the whole point of a firearm--avoiding grappling.

It happens occasionally, but it happens a lot more on TV than in real life. At close range, I'd have my off hand up as a block, and the moment they attempted to grapple, I'd shoot and keep shooting until they stopped.

Thank you so much! That is very helpful.

Don't worry, this info is for a fictional scene, so my mortal coil is in good shape! :D
 

Amadan

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Thanks for the quick response. Which type of safety would be most obvious? Would an engaged thumb safety be visible?


It's visible, but it's just a little stud or switch or lever against the gun. Especially if you are looking at it with the business end of the gun pointing at you, it's going to be really hard to pick it out and make a snap decision about whether it's on or off. Even if you are intimately familiar with that particular model of gun.
 

Noah Body

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That actually depends on the firearm--on a Smith and Wesson M&P .45, which I own, the safety is simply gigantic. On a M&P Shield 9mm, which I also own, it's almost invisible. The M&P 9mm comes in a similar configuration to the .45, and both models are also available without a safety.

Not that a spend a hell of a lot of time examining my firearms from the barrel end...at least when they're assembled and loaded.
 
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badwolf.usmc

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Let me preface this question by admitting that I know nothing about guns.

Would it be possible if you owned a Smith and Wesson 9mm and someone wrestled it away and pointed it at you, for you to tell if the safety had been engaged? (Let's say they were no more than 3 feet away from you.)

I'm going to say no for the simple reason that for most firearms that i know of, you can't see the safety when the weapon is pointed at you. If you do see one, it is usually from the side or maybe behind.
 

alleycat

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I own a S&W 9mm Model 39

Adding to the other comments, it's not going to matter much if someone can tell or not (and they probably can't in the confusion and movement during such a scene)--the safety is quickly flipped on or off with the thumb on my model. It's a very natural movement to flip it off when you're ready to fire it.
 
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ironmikezero

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On the other hand, you could make the pistol in question a P35 Browning Hi-Power (9mm, single action). During the grapple/struggle have the magazine become dislodged/ejected; if memory serves, the Hi-Power will not fire unless the magazine is fully inserted/latched - even with a live round in the chamber (magazine disconnect safety). Your MC would know this but the assailant might not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power
 

Noah Body

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Even better, have the action happen in California...I think all pistols there have to be compliant to fire only if the mag is in the weapon.
 

Summonere

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Simple question about flintlock muzzle-loaders: if you aim them downward, isn't there a risk the ball and powder will fall out?

Nope.

The ball is actually a tiny bit bigger than the hole in the barrel, so when you poke one down the barrel, you have to use a fair amount of force to push it in, and you generally use a starting tool (smaller than the ramrod) and use a greased patch to aid this process. The ramrod mounted under the barrel is used to push the projectile fully into the barrel, properly seating it lest you leave a cavity and thereby create a destructively explosive situation.

Here is a YouTube video showing the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT47W-C4F8Q
 

Trebor1415

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There are real life cases where a bad guy has gotten a cop's gun away from him and tried to shoot the cop with his own gun, only to fail, because the bad guy didn't realize the safety was on or didn't know how to disengage the safety.

The older S&W metal framed semi-autos had safety's mounted on the slide that went down for "SAFE" and up for "FIRE." These guns are now out of production, but there are still a bunch around.

The newer S&W plastic framed semi-autos (the M&P Series) can come with or without a manual thumb safety. On the variant that uses a manual thumb safety, the safety is mounted on the frame and goes down for "FIRE" and up for "SAFE."

Either way, if it's his gun, and he always uses the safety, when the bad guy gets it away from him, it's entirely plausible for the bad guy to not realize the safety is on or not know how to operate the safety. As far as the gun's owner being able to tell the safety is still on, yeah, at a few feet or so, I can buy that. (Especially since it's his gun and it was just taken away from him)

If you really want to make it obvious, have the bad guy pull the trigger and be surprised when nothing happens. (Not even a "click" btw, just nothing). If this happens the good guy will instantly know the safety is engaged and have a chance to react while the bad guy tries to figure out how to make the gun work.
 
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MichaelZWilliamson

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Even better, have the action happen in California...I think all pistols there have to be compliant to fire only if the mag is in the weapon.


Unless it's a pistol that predates that law. Or a revolver.

From my collection, that's Smith & Wesson 2nd Model serial number 157

SmithLeft.jpg


It still works, I still shoot it, you can still buy ammo for it. Made in 1882.

None of these worry about that law either:

eac24a99-18f3-48ca-9715-5cffb158fe51_zps4a948011.jpg


1859-present.
 

MichaelZWilliamson

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Simple question about flintlock muzzle-loaders: if you aim them downward, isn't there a risk the ball and powder will fall out?

As said already, usually no. The ball is either oversized, or wrapped in a tight fabric, paper or leather patch so it has to be forced in. This increases the pressure of the combustion and improves velocity.

BUT, if you are firing in formation, it's typical to pour powder, bump the butt on the ground to settle it, drop or spit a ball down the bore, shoulder and fire. You lose some accuracy and energy, but you gain rate of fire, and you're with a hundred or more other shooters. In that case, you can't depress the weapon's elevation or it will roll right out.

The first shot will usually be rammed. If you have time you will ram. But in advance or drill shooting only, no.
 
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