Writing with a side of depression

Jamesaritchie · Sep 5, 2014

Shadow_Ferret said:
So were you diagnosed as having depression? By a real licensed professional?

I'm wondering because real depression goes way beyond feeling sad ir down, its an actual mental disorder, one that I doubt very much people can overcome with yoga or just thinking happy thoughts.

Real depression comes in many shapes and forms, and who said anything about happy thoughts? I most certainly was diagnosed by a real, actual, honest to God professional who dealt with depression on a daily basis.

Now, it may be that REAL depression, as opposed to fake depression, I guess, is a mental disorder, but people got over REAL depression for hundreds of years before medications were available. Each did so in his or her own way, but it happened. It still happens.

And, you know, almost everyone I've met who was diagnosed with REAL depression had incredibly good reasons to be depressed. Is this a coincidence? Most of these people were diagniosed with clinical depression, handed a fistful of medications, pulled into week session with a qualified profession, and most responded to treatment. Trouble is, they still had all sorts of things they should have been depressed about, were still living lives that would depress a saint. For me, that was not a treatment I wanted.

For me, just for me, i decided I was in charge of how I felt, and whether I has happy or depressed. I was in charge, and I was in control of what I felt.

Okay, I admit to thinking one happy thought, and it helped a great deal because I believed it completely. Happiness is not getting what you want, it's wanting what you get.

This may be a tired old cliche to some, but, for me, it's the path to true happiness. I go after what I want with everything I have, but if I don't get it, I have lost nothing at all.

Back then, a hangnail would put me in a tailspin that could last for weeks. Now two heart attacks, being in a coma twice, losing an eye, and being hand a prognosis that does not deal favorably with longevity just goes down as a life lived, and my happiness level hasn't dropped a hair. It's a life being lived. Everything is a life being lived, and LIFE is good.

It's most certainly infinitely better than what all those who die very young managed.

For me, just for me, there is nothing abnormal about my brain. Each part functions. So does my mind, and my mind controls how I feel about everything and everyone. It controls whether I'm happy, whether I'm depressed, whether I'm frightened, and even whether I'm in love.

There are bazillions of things out there that I can't control, but there's nothing I can't control inside my own head.

Mr Flibble · Sep 5, 2014

Jamesaritchie said:
Most of these people were diagniosed with clinical depression, handed a fistful of medications, pulled into week session with a qualified profession, and most responded to treatment. Trouble is, they still had all sorts of things they should have been depressed about, were still living lives that would depress a saint.

Before you diagnose yourself with depression, first make sure you are not surrounded by assholes - William Gibson

Many people have reasons to be depressed, and do not change the reasons while in treatment. This just means more treatment to hep cope with the crap they have in their life (which may or may not be avoidable)

However, some people get depressed even when they should be euphoric

When I am bad, a change is very often as good as a rest -- it takes you out of yourself, the usual reasons (if you have RL reasons) go away...

But that's not always practical. I would recommend taking a good hard look at life though, and jettisoning things/people who are not helping/suck the everloving life out of you.

LIFE is good

As I get older, and the creaks set in, I find it helpful to think, well, it's better than the alternative...

Liosse de Velishaf · Sep 5, 2014

Shadow_Ferret said:
So were you diagnosed as having depression? By a real licensed professional?

I'm wondering because real depression goes way beyond feeling sad ir down, its an actual mental disorder, one that I doubt very much people can overcome with yoga or just thinking happy thoughts.

Jamesaritchie said:
Real depression comes in many shapes and forms, and who said anything about happy thoughts? I most certainly was diagnosed by a real, actual, honest to God professional who dealt with depression on a daily basis.

Now, it may be that REAL depression, as opposed to fake depression, I guess, is a mental disorder, but people got over REAL depression for hundreds of years before medications were available. Each did so in his or her own way, but it happened. It still happens.

And, you know, almost everyone I've met who was diagnosed with REAL depression had incredibly good reasons to be depressed. Is this a coincidence? Most of these people were diagniosed with clinical depression, handed a fistful of medications, pulled into week session with a qualified profession, and most responded to treatment. Trouble is, they still had all sorts of things they should have been depressed about, were still living lives that would depress a saint. For me, that was not a treatment I wanted.

For me, just for me, i decided I was in charge of how I felt, and whether I has happy or depressed. I was in charge, and I was in control of what I felt.

Okay, I admit to thinking one happy thought, and it helped a great deal because I believed it completely. Happiness is not getting what you want, it's wanting what you get.

This may be a tired old cliche to some, but, for me, it's the path to true happiness. I go after what I want with everything I have, but if I don't get it, I have lost nothing at all.

Back then, a hangnail would put me in a tailspin that could last for weeks. Now two heart attacks, being in a coma twice, losing an eye, and being hand a prognosis that does not deal favorably with longevity just goes down as a life lived, and my happiness level hasn't dropped a hair. It's a life being lived. Everything is a life being lived, and LIFE is good.

It's most certainly infinitely better than what all those who die very young managed.

For me, just for me, there is nothing abnormal about my brain. Each part functions. So does my mind, and my mind controls how I feel about everything and everyone. It controls whether I'm happy, whether I'm depressed, whether I'm frightened, and even whether I'm in love.

There are bazillions of things out there that I can't control, but there's nothing I can't control inside my own head.

While there are various levels of similarity, everyone's depression is different. Yoga might work for some people and it might not for others, but I think RYFW suggests that we not start accusing people of not having a "real" mental disorder.

Some people are able to make a large mental effort to overcome the effects of their condition. Certainly many people with depression have experienced short-term results from making a conscious decision to move past their depression on the level of a single day. As long as no one is playing the "just get over it" card directly aimed at other people, we're probably okay.

James was very clear that they were only talking about their personal experience and not projecting it onto the other members of the thread, and I think the same could be said of Siri.

Liosse de Velishaf · Sep 5, 2014

Mr Flibble said:
Before you diagnose yourself with depression, first make sure you are not surrounded by assholes - William Gibson

Many people have reasons to be depressed, and do not change the reasons while in treatment. This just means more treatment to hep cope with the crap they have in their life (which may or may not be avoidable)

However, some people get depressed even when they should be euphoric

When I am bad, a change is very often as good as a rest -- it takes you out of yourself, the usual reasons (if you have RL reasons) go away...

But that's not always practical. I would recommend taking a good hard look at life though, and jettisoning things/people who are not helping/suck the everloving life out of you.

As I get older, and the creaks set in, I find it helpful to think, well, it's better than the alternative...

One of the most insidious parts of depression is that it can ingrain negative feedback loops into your thinking that even redressing the chemical imbalances cannot entirely fix, which is why CBT and similar methods can be so effective.

But even with a combination of those there are still forms of depressing or extenuating (intenuating?) circumstances that can mean a person's mind resists all treatment to various extents.

Mr Flibble · Sep 5, 2014

Liosse de Velishaf said:
But even with a combination of those there are still forms of depressing or extenuating (intenuating?) circumstances that can mean a person's mind resists all treatment to various extents.

Oh yes, absolutely -- I didn't mean to infer otherwise.

Liosse de Velishaf · Sep 5, 2014

Mr Flibble said:
Oh yes, absolutely -- I didn't mean to infer otherwise.

I know you didn't. I didn't mean to imply you were inferring such a thing.

But with stuff like depression, it's important to keep perspective on the fact that you can do all the right things and still not meet your goals, and it isn't the fault of the person, and they shouldn't add that to the list of things that feeds their condition.

ETA: I had no idea so many people I respected on AW were dealing with depression and similar conditions, and this thread has been incredibly positive so far, and I want it to stay that way. That's the main focus of most of my posts here and I don't want anyone to feel like I am criticizing them personally.

Mr Flibble · Sep 5, 2014

Liosse de Velishaf said:
I know you didn't. I didn't mean to imply you were inferring such a thing.

Between you implying and me inferring...

This is, in fact, part of my problem -- I am hovering on the cusp of One Of My Moments. And when that happens sometimes I say/type stuff I don;t mean. or don't realise the significance of.

Ofc without the CBT (much of which is not thinking happy thoughts but avoiding the sinkhole cycle of bad ones) I've had I would not know I am on the cuso and would have just sailed on ahead blithely...

I'd rather second guess myself than say something I shouldn't and not worry about it, you know? And this is how I know I haven't fallen over the cusp.

ETA: I had no idea so many people I respected on AW were dealing with depression and similar conditions, and this thread has been incredibly positive so far, and I want it to stay that way. That's the main focus of most of my posts here and I don't want anyone to feel like I am criticizing them personally.

I knew there were a fair few of us. When I was diagnosed with bipolar (quite late in life -- made sense of some really weird shit that I've gone through) it was the friends I made here that helped me more than anything.

Buffysquirrel · Sep 5, 2014

Shadow_Ferret said:
I'm wondering because real depression goes way beyond feeling sad ir down, its an actual mental disorder, one that I doubt very much people can overcome with yoga or just thinking happy thoughts.

Not just thinking happy thoughts, no. But stopping thinking negative, self-destructive thoughts, yes. In fact that's a major part of CBT.

Karen Junker · Sep 5, 2014

I have a friend who has treatment-resistant depression. He's tried everything (under doc's supervision). A few years ago, I was the person designated to pick him up from electroshock treatments (they still do this and it's working for some people) and it affected his memory so much, he didn't recognize me and still doesn't, or remember that he ever knew me.

I think it is awesome when people find ways to cope, short or long term. I wish I were one of them.

Oprah used to always say, "All pain is the same." I disagree. Some people, for whatever reasons, experience their pain more deeply and for longer than other people, even if their experiences in life have been similar.

I find it so comforting that so many of my friends in here are willing to share their most vulnerable selves. Even if I don't thank you personally, you are appreciated so much!

Buffysquirrel · Sep 5, 2014

They're now trying ketamine for treatment-resistant depression. With luck it won't have the same side-effects as both my parents suffered with ECT.

Jack Asher · Sep 5, 2014

holy_shiitake said:
I'm now trying to figure out in my head whether or not I should play Anti-Depressant Roulette or if I should just stick with some CBT therapy.

If you've actually been diagnosed you should talk it over with your doctor, before you make any decisions. But the two aren't mutually exclusive. There's no reason you can't get on the right meds and still do therapy.

I realize that for most people medication is a big scary word, and most people have horror stories about themselves or someone they know. The truth is that you aren't going to find the right med on the first try, and that it will probably take several weeks before you find out what you like and don't like about it.

But sticking with it and finding something that can help is an incredibly rewarding mission, and will have a huge effect not just on when and how you write but the quality and the direction as well.

Mr Flibble · Sep 5, 2014

Jack Asher said:
If you've actually been diagnosed you should talk it over with your doctor, before you make any decisions. But the two aren't mutually exclusive. There's no reason you can't get on the right meds and still do therapy.

What he said

Definitely talk with your doc first. Meds take time to get right (and the wrong ones can..be a trial. The right ones however can transform your life) but everyone is different so everyone's treatment that works best for them is different, Chat with your doc, see what they say.

Personally I'd suggest going with the milder/non med/therapy stuff first (because why medicate when you don't need to?) but obviously this is a) only my opinion and I am not a doctor and do not know your symptoms/their severity. and b) It worked for me so I am biased. I am not you so....

Your doctor is who you need to talk to here, so that you can together make a game plan

Ken · Sep 5, 2014

The important thing is to get better. Writing is secondary. So take the necessary measures. And when you're up to it then you can return to it.

Shadow_Ferret · Sep 5, 2014

Jamesaritchie said:
For me, just for me, there is nothing abnormal about my brain. Each part functions. So does my mind, and my mind controls how I feel about everything and everyone. It controls whether I'm happy, whether I'm depressed, whether I'm frightened, and even whether I'm in love.

Real was an unfortunate choice of words. By real I meant abnormal brain function. Something wrong with the wiring, the synapses. A neurological disorder. Something you can't control. Something that will only respond to medication.

I have ADHD. I can't just think it away. Changing diets did nothing. I had been in this unfocused fog for over 50 years and nothing worked until I finally went on medication, then it was like a veil had been lifted.

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

shadowwalker · Sep 5, 2014

I think it's important to remember that not everyone with depression will live with it, at some level, forever. Some folks - the very lucky ones - will have one bout and it goes away. Now, that bout may last a few years, but that will be the last time it strikes. (This is not to be confused with situational depression, either.) I just want it mentioned so people remember that even clinical depression has many faces.

As far as people 'getting over it on their own for decades', I wonder if they really got over it, if they just learned to hide it (depressives are incredible actors - just ask the families and friends of those who "suddenly" commit suicide), or if there was a sudden and tragic "accident" (since for those same decades suicide was a shameful act and reflected badly on the families).

Jack Asher · Sep 5, 2014

Jamesaritchie said:
Now, it may be that REAL depression, as opposed to fake depression, I guess, is a mental disorder, but people got over REAL depression for hundreds of years before medications were available. Each did so in his or her own way, but it happened. It still happens.

And, you know, almost everyone I've met who was diagnosed with REAL depression had incredibly good reasons to be depressed. Is this a coincidence? Most of these people were diagniosed with clinical depression, handed a fistful of medications, pulled into week session with a qualified profession, and most responded to treatment. Trouble is, they still had all sorts of things they should have been depressed about, were still living lives that would depress a saint. For me, that was not a treatment I wanted.
.

Ah, this is a common misconception. You are equating clinical depression with "feeling a little sad sometimes".

In the case of "real" depression a persons neuroreceptors don't process information at the same rate, or in the same way as a "normal" person. It has nothing to do with their circumstances or their living situation.

And while people dealt with depression for thousands of years, they also did their dentistry with sharpened rocks, without painkillers. I expect a better standard of living from an age when I can press a button and talk to anyone in the world. Though as you might expect, when you are in a situation that would depress a saint, it helps if your brain functions well enough to keep you getting out of bed in the morning.

holy_shiitake · Sep 5, 2014

Some more clarifying things: I'm not currently in therapy or seeing a medical professional. I've been diagnosed with PTSD by a licensed professional, but not depression (or anything on the depressive spectrum beyond, "wow, some real shit has happened in this lady's life"). Due to current financial constraints, seeing such a person would probably be really awful for my bank account (those pesky student loan repayments eat up so much of my monthly income!). And until I meet my quite high deductible, my health insurance won't pay for anything. So unfortunately I'm just going to have to slog through until I get promoted and acquire a raise. (Geez, what great motivation to acquire a raise!)

Has anyone had any experience with self-directed CBT? I've been recommended MoodGym, which is a CBT-based website similar to a workbook, and I'm going to take full advantage of that, but I'd also appreciate any other suggestions anyone has to give! (Beyond the obvious things that I'm already trying to do, like eat right and get enough sleep and get enough exercise.)

Quickbread · Sep 5, 2014

Shadow_Ferret said:
So were you diagnosed as having depression? By a real licensed professional?

I'm wondering because real depression goes way beyond feeling sad ir down, its an actual mental disorder, one that I doubt very much people can overcome with yoga or just thinking happy thoughts.

Yes, actually, yoga and meditation do have that power. They helped me out of depression, too, when I was also working with mental health professionals. Yoga and meditation are not at all about thinking happy thoughts. They are powerful practices that reprogram your brain patterns and undo negative patterns stuck in the body and mind. You have to be committed and go deep with a practice (preferably with guidance), but it's for sure possible.

ShaunHorton · Sep 5, 2014

I've been wrestling with depression for the last couple years. I tried medication and counseling, but neither of those did much for me. (The counselor I was talking to literally interrupted me at the last session and just told me to stop being so negative.) It's still something I struggle with every day, and only those closest to me really have any idea how bad it's been sometimes. Sadly, that doesn't include any of my family, but that's just one more drop in the lake.

My writing is something that helps, and my word processor is always open, but like a few others have said, getting started on anything on any given day is near impossible. Another thing that helps is volunteering with a local animal rescue group, it gives me something to do so I'm not dwelling on the problems, and it's hard not to smile when you've got kittens crawling all over you.

Buffysquirrel · Sep 6, 2014

Kittens are a balm to the soul.

Liosse de Velishaf · Sep 7, 2014

Buffysquirrel said:
Kittens are a balm to the soul.

Seconded.

buz · Sep 7, 2014

A lot seems to be being said about what is or is not depression or sadness and whether there is a reason for it or not and diagnosing or undiagnosing people and how it can or cannot be treated...

The things is that a) depression comes in MANY forms and b) can respond or not respond to a whole lot of things, including anti-depressant drugs and therapy, but also light, weather, meditation, exercise, religion, lack of religion, change in environment, dogs, withholding sleep, drugs that aren't meant for depression, etc, and most importantly c) there's a whole lot that even the most sciencey of scientists and psychological of psychologists do not know about depression, and therefore many things outside of an individual's experience with what depression is are possible.

ssbittner · Sep 7, 2014

Buffysquirrel said:
Kittens are a balm to the soul.

Thirded on the kittens.

When I get really depressed, I can't motivate myself enough to go to yoga or similar things. Just having to attend a practice can itself be additional stress. And often when I am depressed I am more apathetic than sad, so sunrises and pretty things don't help much.

akaria · Sep 7, 2014

holy_shiitake said:
So for years I've been saying, "I have depressive symptoms but not actual Depression." Turns out you can only have depressive symptoms for so long before you Actually Have Depression!

This was me for a looooong time. After a couple of years of talk therapy I still wasn't better and it was hard to admit I needed more help. Fast forward and a year on meds has made a huge difference.

I have a very loose routine. Write for at least an hour twice a week. And try not to beat myself up if the goal isn't met. That's the part where the meds help the most. They stop the merry go round of negativity that prevents anything but the bare basics from getting done. It's still a battle, but I feel hopeful.

Good luck with your search for a writing buddy!

holy_shiitake · Sep 7, 2014

Buffysquirrel said:
Kittens are a balm to the soul.

I have an ancient crotchety boy cat and he resembles that remark.

Writing with a side of depression

Jamesaritchie

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Liosse de Velishaf

Liosse de Velishaf

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Liosse de Velishaf

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Buffysquirrel

Karen Junker

Live a little. Write a lot.

Buffysquirrel

Jack Asher

Differently rational

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Ken

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

shadowwalker

empty-nester!

Jack Asher

Differently rational

holy_shiitake

KB1VWJ

Quickbread

ShaunHorton

AW's resident Velociraptor

Buffysquirrel

Liosse de Velishaf

buz

edits all posts at least four times

ssbittner

scientist, artist, writer

akaria

holy_shiitake

KB1VWJ