Deep POV with more than 1 significant characters

I think it would be better to focus on the main character. Too much head jumping can bore the reader out. However, you can change the POV when you go to the next chapter. I also don't understand what deep POV is.

I write multiple third a lot of the time and I write deep pov all the time. I can't see why it should be a problem. One thing I do find, though, is that if I shift too much or too quickly in deep pov it can be a little jarring, so I mostly try to stay in one pov per chapter.

Sentosa said:

A point on which I would very much appreciate advice/comments:
Do you feel that using deep POV with the other important characters might be too much?

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If by deep POV, you mean making each character's scenes as vivid and immersive as possible, with internal as well as external conflicts...well, why wouldn't you? Otherwise you risk making the non-protag characters seem flat and uninteresting compared to the protagonist, and the reader will not be happy whenever you switch to their scenes.

The trick to writing a multi-POV novel that keeps the reader engaged throughout is to make each POV as unique and compelling as you can.

So, yes, write them all deep.

I doubt anyone deliberately chooses to write in a shallow POV and to deprive the reader of the best experience, so therefore deep POV leaves me cold as a definition. Suggesting anyone write in a deeper POV seems to me to be simply another way of saying the writer hasn't appeared to have yet mastered the craft of writing in an effective POV.

Sentosa said:

I really have no interest in your opinions.

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Um, so why come on a forum and post a question? You're inviting opinions when you do so...

Ignoring the rather rude response of the OP, this is quite an interesting discussion. I kinda agree with you Bufty that "deep" as a descriptor is a terrible word. Why wouldn't you write deep? Why wouldn't you write immersive?

I think a better way of phrasing it might be "close" and "distant". Obviously, first person is always "close", but third can change. You can have the narration coming firmly from within the MC, or you can have it coming from a floating, individual narrator who just happens to know everything. Both can be immersive, and both can be "deep", but it's just different styles, isn't it?

And what I've realised is I've just spelled out 3rd-omni vs 3rd-limited. Ah well.

As to the original question: I think three, 3rd-limited POVs is fine, though only as long as you make sure there's large chunks and the switching isn't frequent. I know you've said you mainly stick to chapter breaks, but might do scene switches; I'd discourage you from doing that. If the story develops enough that it warrants a different POV, in my opinion it warrants a new chapter, and that allows the reader a much easier switch from POV to POV than when it's done through scene breaks IMO.

I am querying a ms written with 3 deep POVs. An agent who requested a full gave me a rejection saying that she didn't know who to root for. It may be that I didn't balance them out correctly, even though I took real care with the language in each section.

BTW, although I changed POV at the chapter as suggested above, there was an extremely tense scene that involved 2 of the main characters as their friend/lover was dying. I passed the POV back and forth there. My beta readers approved, so I left it in.

Sentosa said:

1. contemporary adventure
2. 3rd person, leaning towards multiple viewpoints as indicated next.
3. significant characters: protagonist, antagonist, and a sidekick for the MC. All pretty standard stuff.

...

The sidekick is male (who'd have guessed that?) and will most likely develop as the romantic interest. I am toying with the possibility of having the sidekick female with the further possibility of a female-female relationship. Much more thinking to do here.

...

Do you feel that using deep POV with the other important characters might be too much?

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Sentosa said:

I really have no interest in your opinions.

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Oh, well, all right then. In that case, let me tell you what I really think.

I agree that "deep" POV or any attempt to define levels of 3rd person POV is just busy work. The depth or level of 3rd person POV can shift, even within a scene and is simply a tool the writer has to heighten or lessen tension throughout their story.

Having different POV characters in a single story is fine. As a matter of fact, keeping the POV to the main characters (including the antagonist as a "main character") is natural and done all the time. Going to secondary characters is where the technique becomes intrusive.

A 15-year-old main character, so I'm assuming this is a young adult story. Even if it's a female and male team, why force a romance into the story? If it happens naturally as you write, so be it. The moment you mentioned doing it female-female raised a red flag. Not because you intend, like so many other writers, of investigating that rarest of phemomena, but that you are planning to force a romance into the story.

Let the romance happen when it happens if it happens. One or the other may simply want to keep the teamwork platonic. Can the other handle the rejection and keep the team effective? Now THERE is an interesting twist to the character interaction.

lacygnette said:

I am querying a ms written with 3 deep POVs.

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I am just finishing a (sold) series with three deep/close/limited/gherkin POVS. Four in book 2. Of 12 books I've sold, only one series (in my sig) has not had multiple POVs. All equally as close/whatever

If I was reading your book and one POV was really immersive/close/deep/gherkin and the others were not-- I'd feel short changed, and probably skim the less deep ones.

Ofc this may depend on genre -- some are more forgiving, or even demand, multiple POVS.

I think it depends on the book and what role those major characters play in the overall story. I have a novel that is on the backburner written from 3 different POVS, all of them main characters. They are all intertwined characters but each has their story that has to do with the overarching storyline and themes. Ironically, I'm actually looking at reducing that novel to a novella and cutting out one of the POVs and just engaging the other 2, who have more of a direct relevance to the story.

I also have a novel that I'm hoping to revise very soon that tells the story from the two main character's POVs. They both are involved heavily in the story, so it made sense for me to do it that way.

One of the challenges that I found with the second novel is trying to control the narrative so that I don't have a lot of "head hopping" going on but that it's clear when each character is telling the narrative and there are specific parts where one tells the narrative while the other does not. I didn't have this problem so much with the first novel, as I alternated chapters with each character's narrative, so it was clear who was speaking and why (since, as I mentioned, the narratives are really telling 3 different but intertwined stories). But with this second novel, the two characters are involved in the same story rather than different ones, so I'm planning on making sure it's clear and also logical why one character has to tell the story from their POV and not the other in each given scene.

Djuna

It's hard to say, but it seems to me that if the other two characters have important and interesting enough arcs to include as povs, you should have them be deeper pov as well. Of course, the voice and feel of each can, and probably should, differ.

Not sure why people are talking about head hopping here. There's no more danger of head hopping in deeper third pov than in limited third with a greater narrative distance. Actually, head hopping would be harder in a deeper/closer third person, since you're more deeply entrenched in your character's pov and would likely notice it more if you accidentally drift without switching scenes. In any case, the rules of pov shifts in limited third apply in both cases: switch povs at scene or chapter breaks. You don't want to limit head hopping or keep yourself from doing it "too often," you want to eliminate it completely.

This might be a matter of just starting to write and seeing how your character arcs, narrative style, and character voices play out.

Deep, deeper, close, distant, shallow...

Whatever happened to subjective/objective? Are those terms out of style now? Maybe it was too hard remembering which was which.

jcwriter said:

Deep, deeper, close, distant, shallow...

Whatever happened to subjective/objective? Are those terms out of style now? Maybe it was too hard remembering which was which.

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If everyone used the same terminology, then we'd actually understand one another when we tried to communicate about writing.

And then we wouldn't be able to tell each other that we're wrong for trying to do what we do with words or that our favorite styles or approaches to prose don't really exist