saintnepal said:
Okay, I'm growling a bit here and feel the need to respond. I don't mean to slam Mundania (nor you, Dan.) I think Mundania is easily the best POD publisher out there, but some of the spin you guys put on things is, well, to be frank, misleading to me. Here's some of the things I find out of whack:
1) I'm a little troubled by the quote above. Here's something else Piers said about Mundania:
"No, I'm not running it, but have a financial interest in it."
If he invested capital in Mundania to publish his prior novels (Pornucopia in particular), then he's not an unbiased opinion and as such, really shouldn't be alluded to as unbiased as in bold above. He clearly states on his web site he has a financial interest in Mundania Press. And not only that, but look at his bibliography:
http://www.hipiers.com/bibliography.html That leads me to point 2.
2) The bestselling authors you list didn't get that way through Mundania, and while it's great your reviving some of their old works and even new ones (like Piers), I think a new writer needs to know that going through Mundania, which is POD to my understanding, means no bookstores (unless author can talk a few into it) and no big reviews by Publisher's Weekly, Booklist, etc. Mr. Anthony's best numbers are from Tor, not Mundania, and that's how he became a best seller. Yes, Mundania's only been around since 2002, but it still gives an impression they've got bestselling books (as adjudged by NY Times bestseller list), and I don't see any.
3) Mundania' website says they're a "traditional publisher", but every time they say it, they have quotation marks. It's contrary to prior prior statements. In one interview in August, 2004, Mr. Sanders says "Mundania Press is working with Lightning Source to remove this negative press (the neg. press was on POD in general, not Mundania of course). We achieve excellent results using POD processes."
http://www.gottawritenetwork.com/mundania.html
I'm sorry, but I have to say it. POD is POD. Right or wrong, both stores and well-known reviewers avoid POD outright. Even if the author has a great book, it's going to have very little shelf life as a POD. That's probably hurting Mundania more than anything. If you did just small print runs and then marketed them to the stores, you could probably change the rep as being a POD publisher, because let's face it, I don't think anybody's going to change the rep of POD in general, at least not any time soon, and it's probably not only hurting sales, but you're also missing out on books because writers are steering away from POD. That's my opinion, but seems self-evident, though I acknowledge I don't know the costs involved in an initial print run and they may be such to preclude such action and maintain an "in the black" status end of year. Bottom line, though, people hear POD and steer clear.
Again, I'm not slamming Mundania. If an author is unable to land a traditional contract with a larger house, POD still can give it some life and Mundania is a good publisher, but just be aware of what your getting into. Don't expect bookstores to jump at either stocking or hosting a book signing for a print on demand book. Most just won't be interested. And when you hear hype, look into it. I know Mundania works hard to keep their good name, but sometimes I think they leave the waters a little muddled. I didn't think Piers' quote was appropriate, nor do I think putting traditional into quotations somehow makes "traditional" take on a different meaning than traditional. If a book is published upon each individual book order, that's POD, and shouldn't be confused with traditional.
And P.S. - The Magic Fart? I know it's comedic and from a best-selling author, but good grief.
OK, let me take your message point-by-point after I make another point. Many people, such as you, use POD as a negative term. Publishers using that technology--and it is ONLY a printing technology--are given what is attempted to be a derogatory term "POD Publisher." Print-on-demand is a printing technology as is offset press. Print-on-demand is a new(er) method using computer technology which can literally print books as needed, thereby cutting down on the waste (since almost half of a print run is wasted) and cutting down on inventory--which is especially important for a small publisher who does not have the extra funds and the extra room for storing thousands of copies of books waiting for them to sell. You might be surprised to know that many larger publishing houses, such as Random House, use print-on-demand technology for some of their backlist books. In fact, there was a recent article in Publishers Weekly that stated that most of the larger publishing houses were considering print-on-demand for their backlist, as it will keep those books in print much longer than an initial print run. And this is particularly true because of the loss of the recent lawsuit. That will open the doors for print-on-demand technology to be used to print books without worrying about lawsuits. As it is now, when a print run is done, unless it sells out, the book is never printed again. Returned copies are destroyed (as only the covers are returned in the case of mass-market paperbacks). Because of vast improvements in technology, a good quality (good cover with lamination, fine paper, etc.) trade paperback produced by print-on-demand is virtually indistinguishable from an offset printed version. I know because we do both.
Yes, you heard correctly. We use both print-on-demand and offset press to print our books. Many of our books are done with print-on-demand, while more and more are being moved to offset press. The reason for this is multifold. a) Offset is certainly cheaper than print-on-demand. b) We are now using two distributors (also referred to as master distributor) to market, sell, and distribute some of our books. c) Bookstores like Barnes & Noble usually distain print-on-demand, mostly because early versions were poor quality and non-returnable. However, many bookstores are also changing their minds for print-on-demand that are returnable (and of good quality). A case in point is our erotic imprint, Phaze, has been accepted by Borders and now sits on Borders shelves--and they are printed using print-on-demand.
It is important that you truly understand all the facts before you make statements about us "putting a spin" on things and "misleading" people, including yourself. While we are not going to reveal confidential and proprietary information on this list, we have never attempted to mislead or put any spin on anything. All we have done is to attempt to explain the misunderstandings about print-on-demand that many people, including you, have about the printing method.
For a small publisher, as I have mentioned above, using print-on-demand technology makes a lot of sense. I've already gone over those reasons above (low inventory, low output of initial funds). Using print-on-demand allows a publisher to accept and publish more books and to put more money into artwork, editing, ads, etc.
Lightning Source is a print-on-demand printer (and oh, by the way, at BEA Lightning Source is introducing their offset printer program too--so you will no longer be able to "identify" what the printing technology is simply by knowing that Lightning Source printed the book).
Lightning Source does a VERY good job on all their books. We have received tons of praise about all our books and have never received one complaint or comment about their quality.
Lightning Source, being owned by Ingram's, gives a small publisher the "in" it needs to be distributed/wholesaled by Ingram's, something that most small publishers would NOT be able to do on their own if they used offset printing and tried to open an Ingram's account on their own. Why? Because Ingram's demands 55% discount, plus the publisher pays for shipping, plus the publisher pays for returns shipping, plus the publisher must maintain OVER $15,000 in wholesale sales PER TITLE or be dropped by Ingram's (or continue with a much larger discount (60-75%). Most small publishers don't sell $35,000 per book per month, which is what is needed to maintain the $15,000 (55%) wholesale requirements.
I hate to say it, but many authors have no clue as to all the stuff that publishers need to put up with when dealing with booksellers, printers, and distributors. Most feel the publishers sit back and rake in tons of cash while doling out tidbits to the authors. Taking into account our startup costs on a general book, on most books the authors actually make more "profit." I won't go into financial details, but trust me, this is generally true, especially when the publisher does print. That's why many small publishers will only do eBooks as the costs are much lower and the profits are higher.
Well enough on the soapbox. Let me address your points:
1) We are not responsible for the way Piers Anthony words his comments. Yes, he does have a financial interest in our company, just the same as every other author does. That's because we pay him a high amount of royalties every quarter. We have a few other authors that do earn as much as he does, but the majority of our authors do not. The ones that do are out hustling and selling.
Quoting you: "If he invested capital in Mundania to publish his prior novels"
Who said that? Piers didn't. Mundania Press was founded by me and Bob Sanders, and we each put in the money to start the company. Bob and I own Mundania Press, lock, stock, and bookshelf. No one else owns any piece of the company at all. Bob and I continue to own 100% of Mundania, Phaze, and New Classics Press.
2) Quoting you: The bestselling authors you list didn't get that way through Mundania, and while it's great your reviving some of their old works and even new ones (like Piers), I think a new writer needs to know that going through Mundania, which is POD to my understanding, means no bookstores (unless author can talk a few into it) and no big reviews by Publisher's Weekly, Booklist, etc. Mr. Anthony's best numbers are from Tor, not Mundania, and that's how he became a best seller. Yes, Mundania's only been around since 2002, but it still gives an impression they've got bestselling books (as adjudged by NY Times bestseller list), and I don't see any.
Again you are misquoting and taking things out of context and drawing invalid conclusions. We have NEVER stated that any books we have are currently on the New York Times bestseller list. We stated, and it is true, that we now have authors that HAVE been on the New York Times bestseller list. That is something we are proud of, because frankly, most other small publishers DO NOT have best selling authors. Yes, we ARE re-publishing the bestselling authors' bestselling books. We've never denied that. The point here is that these authors TRUST Mundania enough to sign contracts with us. That alone speaks volumes for us. Wildside Press and Meisha Merlin are the other small publishers that come to mind that have acquired bestselling authors and are putting their books back into print.
Another point that you are missing though is that many of these authors are also contracting with us for NEWLY written books. Don Callander has given us his 'Mancer series (Pyromancer, Aquamancer, Geomancer, Aeromancer, and Marbleheart), his Companion series (Dragon Companion, Dragon Hunt, Dragon Tempest), and his Warlock's Bar & Grill that he self-published at Xlibris (which IS partially owned by Piers Anthony AND Random House). All of the above, with the exception of Warlock, was on the New York Times bestseller list. For your information, Don is writing a fourth book in the Companion series, a sixth book in the 'Mancer series, a sequel to Warlock, and two brand new novels--all of which Mundania will be publishing. And yes, we hope they will make it to the bestseller list.
Piers Anthony has given us reprint rights to Pornucopia, Macroscope, Omnivore, Orn, OX, and along with Robert Margroff, reprint rights to the Kelvin series (Dragon's Gold, Serpent's Silver, Chimaera's Copper, Orc's Opal, and Mouvar's Magic). Piers has also given us brand new books, Key to Havoc, Key to Chroma, Key to Destiny, Key to Liberty, The Magic Fart, and Tortoise Reform. Piers has NOT paid us to print his books. The money is coming out of my pocket, regardless of the way Piers has phrased it on his website. (By the way, I asked him about that--I've spent time with him in his home a few times--and he just shrugged and said it's true as we pay him money.) He simply meant that other authors may not make as much as he does, or may not make much money at all, and that is true too. His name draws a lot of sales alone. Also his comment was made when we were brand new and had never published any book yet.
Anne Logston has given us her 11 novels to reprint, all of which were on the New York Times bestseller list. She is working on ideas for new books as well.
Louise Cooper has given us 12 of her novels to reprint, and several of these have been rewritten by Louise. She has also written some new short stories for us.
We have all of Robert Adams' novels. His Coming of the Horseclans sold 3 million copies when it was released. Unfortunately, Robert passed away in 1990, so there won't be any new ones coming from him. Since he co-authored with Andre Norton, we were in talks with Andre and her agent about reprint rights when Andre passed away suddenly. So for now the talks are on hold.
My point here is that, yes, these authors well already bestsellers when they came to Mundania. We did not make them bestsellers. But your message twists what we have said to make it SOUND as if we made them bestsellers. We've never said that and for you to imply it is simply wrong. Our "message" is that these (already) bestseller authors have contacted and contracted with Mundania Press because they believe in what we are doing. They know we're an honest, hardworking small publisher and they feel they have a good chance of making money on their old books as well as their new ones. THAT's what we are saying. Will any new author that comes with us become a bestseller? The odds are against them, but if they do enough promotion, enough hustling, and build a big enough fan base, then anything can happen. Look at Christopher Paolini's Eragon. His dad started a small publisher just to publish that book and he was "discovered" after that. A bit of trivia that is related, when Christopher was offered a contract (with a $50K advance), he corresponded with Piers Antony, who told him to get an agent--who should be able to get a better offer. Christopher did and his agent got him a $250,000 advance and a guarantee for additional books--and now Eragon is being made into a movie.
It is unfair of you to single out small publishers in general, and us specifically, to warn authors away. We do have non-bestselling authors that make good money from us, and some of them do have books on shelves nationwide.
3) Quoting you: Mundania' website says they're a "traditional publisher"
We use the quotes because we want people to try to understand what this means. We ARE a traditional publisher. We are not a subsidy or vanity publisher. We review manuscripts (we receive between 350-400 a month now), and we accept only the best to be published. As a traditional publisher, the author never pays anything to be published. We pay everything--even for Piers Anthony. We do not normally pay advances, although we do pay advances to some of our authors. We do pay above average (when compared to the New York houses) for royalties. And what technology we use to print our books HAS NOTHING to do with who we are or how we do business. POD does not define a publisher--that's a popular misconception that you share with a lot of people. All we are trying to do is to educate people/authors to understand that print-on-demand is a technology to print books, not a way of life or a way to conduct business.
As I mentioned earlier, we do use print-on-demand for many of our books, as well as now using offset for select books that are going through distributors (not Ingram's or Baker & Taylor). We are using two different distributors, one for Mundania and one for New Classics Press. New Classics has one book, The Saints Bones, which was a print run, and is stocked in Barnes and Noble and Borders. I also mentioned that all of our Phaze print titles are now on Borders shelves, even though they are currently printed via print-on-demand. We're using another distributor for some new Mundania titles coming out that are also done in print runs using offset.
Quoting you: I'm sorry, but I have to say it. POD is POD. Right or wrong, both stores and well-known reviewers avoid POD outright.
Wow, you could not be more wrong. Again you are simply making assumptions on rumors that you've heard. Our books are reviewed in Romantic Times, Locus, and several other magazines, as well as having "well-known" reviewers reviewing them. Reviewers don't give a rat's behind how a book is printed. In fact, I'll be willing to bet you that I could place two books, one print-on-demand and one offset printed into a reviewer's hands and they would be hard pressed to guess which is which. And stores are also stocking print-on-demand, as long as they are returnable--and all of Mundania's titles are fully returnable, always have been.
We've had new authors reach success. Not the New York Times bestseller list of course, as we already said, but one of our authors is consistently rated around 8,000 on Amazon, and his book has been accepted reading by a half-dozen schools around the US, and that list is growing. We went back and reissued his book in hardcover because we had so much demand from libraries for it. How is this done? His book is good. The quality is good. And he hustles with booksignings and promotions for his book. Any author can do that if they are willing to roll up their sleeves and promote their book. Your job isn't done when your book is done.
Quoting you: And P.S. - The Magic Fart? I know it's comedic and from a best-selling author, but good grief.
We don't name the books. The authors name them. That's the name Piers Anthony wanted for it, so that's the one that was used.
Quoting you: Again, I'm not slamming Mundania.
Sorry, but it sure looks that way. You attempt to define our company and discredit us by labeling us "POD" and knowingly announcing that our authors are paying us to publish our books because your "research" on us has given you sound bytes and quotes that you are able to twist to fit your hypothesis and pre-conceived notion of our company. Mundania Press is a traditional publisher in every sense of the word and we meet every criterion to be called traditional. You should do a LOT more research on POD to understand that it is a printing technology, not a business methodology.
Quoting you: Don't expect bookstores to jump at either stocking or hosting a book signing for a print-on-demand book. Most just won't be interested. And when you hear hype, look into it. I know Mundania works hard to keep their good name, but sometimes I think they leave the waters a little muddled. I didn't think Piers' quote was appropriate, nor do I think putting traditional into quotations somehow makes "traditional" take on a different meaning than traditional. If a book is published upon each individual book order, that's POD, and shouldn't be confused with traditional.
Again you are simply wrong. I just don't understand your confusion over this. Where do you get your information? We ship books to Barnes & Noble and Borders, along with independent bookstores ALL THE TIME for author book signings. You are once again simply making blanket statements based on your own prejudice with no facts to back you up other than your ability to twist posted sound bites. Whether we use quotes on our website or not, or whether you attempt to interpret what someone else has said in an offhand comment does not provide you with the proof you need to make wild guesses about how we operate.
Quoting you: Bottom line, though, people hear POD and steer clear.
And that is because of people like you, who post these same incorrect “warnings” over and over again, going along with the flow regardless of how you are wrong. You perpetuate the myth and misunderstandings, and make sure that POD keeps its evil connotation. When something is repeated often enough, even though it is wrong, people will believe it. All you are really doing is a disservice to authors by getting them to join the "POD is bad" party line. You should really spend some of your time reading articles from Publishers Weekly to find out more about print-on-demand technology and how all the big publishers are now eyeing it, especially since the lawsuit was dismissed. You might find in the very near future that those very same publishers that you are recommending will be using print-on-demand to keep their backlist alive and available--something that will greatly benefit every author. If an author’s book never goes out of print, it could literally sell forever.
Mundania has always gone out of its way to set the record straight and to try to educate our authors, and all authors about the reality in the publishing business. We've answered every question honestly and to the best of our ability. According to you, we’ve attempted to put a spin on certain things--which is exactly what you are guilty of doing too. You may feel your spin is more legitimate than ours, and that’s okay. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, regardless of how wrong it is.
My advice to all authors reading this list is to do your homework and don't listen to innuendoes and suppositions based on someone's pre-conceived notions about the publishing business when they don't have the true facts, nor understand what they are talking about. Research the publishing industry. Find the facts, not the myths. If you find a publisher that you want to submit your manuscript, then research them. What is their Preditors & Editors rating (we placed as the # 6 publisher this past year and are rated as RECOMMENDED). Is the publisher a good fit for your novel? What does the publisher currently sell? Maybe buy one of their books to see for yourself the quality they produce (quality inside and out). Choose the publisher that best fits with what your novel is all about. You’ll have a better chance of being publisher that way.
If anyone, ever, has any questions, please feel free to contact me directly at
[email protected]. We’ll answer your questions swiftly and honestly. We do that because we want to stay in this business and the only way that can happen is to deal honestly and fairly with our authors.
Dan