"And" connects two parts of sentence, creates confusion?

pellshek · Sep 23, 2014

Hi all,

The sentence in quote tags below is bugging me.

Hero is woken up when the phone rings. He answers it, still half asleep, and I have a short para describing his senses slowly coming round. That para starts:

He rubbed his eyes and the world – his bedroom – started emerging from the gloom.

It's the first part of the sentence that's at issue. Does it read as:

a) "He rubbed his eyes and he rubbed the world..."

or

b) "He rubbed his eyes and as a result the world started emerging..."

Obviously I'm trying to say b) but I have a feeling it might read as a).

This is one of those problems where the sentence has been in my MS for so long that I'm struggling to see what it actually says as opposed to seeing what I think it says, or what I mean it to say.

Many thanks.

cornflake · Sep 23, 2014

You need a comma before the 'and;' you've got two independent clauses.

You could alternately eliminate your confusion by killing the 'and,' and sticking in a semicolon.

Osulagh · Sep 23, 2014

What Cornflake said. A comma before "and" creates greater separation. You can also use a different conjunction that relates sequence of events, like "then" or even " , and then". "and as a result" is a bit too obvious for me, and a semi-colon--even though I love them--feels too jarring for me.

King Neptune · Sep 23, 2014

Yes, Cornflake is right.

Chase · Sep 23, 2014

pellshek said:
He rubbed his eyes[,] and the world – his bedroom – started emerging from the gloom.

Here's the comma rule Cornflake referred to (as edited above and with examples below):

Comma Rule Number 1: A comma is necessary to separate a compound structure, two or more main clauses joined by one of the seven coordinating conjunctions: and, or, nor, but, for, yet, so.

The woman drank black coffee, and she ate a croissant.
You can conduct yourself in a pleasant manner, or you can be horrible.
Evan loves Suzanne, but he cannot forget Elena.

If a writer chooses to make those constructions into simple sentences, then the comma is not used:

The woman drank black coffee and ate a croissant.
You can conduct yourself in a pleasant manner or be horrible.
Evan loves Suzanne but cannot forget Elena.

Your sentence obviously requires compound construction. As Cornflake also suggested, a compound method without a comma and coordinating conjunction employs a semicolon:

He rubbed his eyes; the world – his bedroom – emerged from the gloom.

Roxxsmom · Sep 23, 2014

Yep, you need a comma before and. This is a pretty good illustration of why these rules exist. As cornflake said, you can also change it to a sentence with a semicolon, or even just turn it into two short sentences.

You couldn't use a then there (without an and), because "then" cannot function as a coordinating conjunction by itself. Some people dislike "and then" constructs, but they're not technically incorrect.

blacbird · Sep 23, 2014

Roxxsmom said:
Yep, you need a comma before and. This is a pretty good illustration of why these rules exist.

Exactly, and it is a most excellent example. So excellent, in fact, that I'm going to use it in my English comp class tomorrow. I collect stuff like this for class purposes.

The major point I intend to emphasize, by using this, is that punctuation does matter. Punctuation rules didn't get to be there because some influential academic said they should be. They got to be there because they facilitate written communication.

As to the specific example, my personal preference would be to eliminate the conjunction, and use a semicolon. I know there are people who DETEST semicolons, including one of our more prominent commenters on grammar and style issues here at AW, but they exist because they also serve a communicative purpose. The sentence in the OP is a perfect example of where one could be used appropriately.

Other than the punctuational glitch, that sentence is quite a good one, by the way.

caw

Roxxsmom · Sep 23, 2014

blacbird said:
Exactly, and it is a most excellent example. So excellent, in fact, that I'm going to use it in my English comp class tomorrow. I collect stuff like this for class purposes.

The major point I intend to emphasize, by using this, is that punctuation does matter. Punctuation rules didn't get to be there because some influential academic said they should be. They got to be there because they facilitate written communication.

As to the specific example, my personal preference would be to eliminate the conjunction, and use a semicolon. I know there are people who [ib]DETEST[/b] semicolons, including one of our more prominent commenters on grammar and style issues here at AW, but they exist because they also serve a communicative purpose. The sentence in the OP is a perfect example of where one could be used appropriately.

Other than the punctuational glitch, that sentence is quite a good one, by the way.

caw

I don't care for semicolons as a rule (I tend to default to two short sentences myself). But I think this is an example of a place where one works, because the second clause happens as a direct consequence of the first one, and a semicolon makes that clear.

And anyone who says they're never used in modern fiction is wrong, because I've noticed their occasional use in the past three novels I've read, and each of these has been published within the past couple years.

The thing is, you can take the same information and craft a dozen or more correctly punctuated sentences that get it across. None will necessarily be better than the others.

blacbird · Sep 24, 2014

Roxxsmom said:
And anyone who says they're never used in modern fiction is wrong, because I've noticed their occasional use in the past three novels I've read, and each of these has been published within the past couple years.

Anyone who says semicolons aren't used anymore isn't reading enough. They are commonly used in current fiction and nonfiction.

caw

pellshek · Sep 24, 2014

Many thanks to everyone for help, esp. Chase for digging out that rule for me. Appreciated.

blacbird said:
Exactly, and it is a most excellent example. So excellent, in fact, that I'm going to use it in my English comp class tomorrow. I collect stuff like this for class purposes.

Delighted to hear that.

blacbird said:
Other than the punctuational glitch, that sentence is quite a good one, by the way.

Nice to hear. I like the slight hint of mock heroism to it. We go from world > bedroom in the blink, or rub, of an eye. This is appropriate for the character in question.

guttersquid · Sep 24, 2014

I love semicolons. My half-assed writing couldn't exist without them.

"And" connects two parts of sentence, creates confusion?

pellshek

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Osulagh

Independent fluffy puppy.

King Neptune

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

blacbird

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

blacbird

pellshek

guttersquid

I agree with Roxxsmom.