Problem with Neighbors' dogs

BMajor

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Oh no Heza.. Sorry to hear this!

You guys sound happy in your home apart from the pet problems on the other side of the fence :(

I have a Border Collie mix who is VERY easily distracted, so I can only imagine Maddie being constantly pulled to that side of your fence. Our little guy also has aggression issues himself, and trying to get him out of situations is SO STRESSFUL OH MY GOD. It completely breaks my heart to hear that your neighbors aren't being good pet parents.. really.. some people should just not have pets.

Some info: I'm an admin for Animal Control for the city I live in, and we get reports of dog barks/nuisance reports nearly every day. In order for one of our ACOs to come out and investigate a regular barking call, two residents from different households have to sign an affidavit, which means their names would be public record. Then the ACO will act accordingly, but they have us tell residents that "dogs bark, it's what they do."

Sometimes, that's all it is - barking. But more often than not, around here, it's more than that. I hardly ever agree when I have to tell someone all this info. I know what it's like to be woken up at 3 am by a dog being beaten (a few houses down from us one summer night) and I know what it's like to listen to another neighbor's dog basically plead-bark to be let in because there is freezing rain/sleet. It's horrific to listen to and definitely cruelty. :/

That new boxer does sound a bit aggressive. And the doberman doesn't sound too friendly either. Them not being exercised/trained/loved/etc. regularly is probably contributing to that. I can bet that them not being altered is another attributing factor to their behavior (Two intact males together? Not always a good combo) I'm also worried about where that blue heeler went that you mentioned.. ugh. I hope it's in a better place.. wherever that may be.

*Sigh* But I'm just repeating what everyone else has already suggested. Try and contact the right authorities about neglect (which this most definitely is) and while I was also going to say that them being in shelters would probably be better, we have pretty high rate kill shelters around here too. If you called for animal cruelty, however, any Animal Control or ASPCA officer would should come out and investigate. If you guys don't have an organization or department in your county devoted to animal welfare, you can contact your local police authority to investigate animal abuse/neglect.

Best of luck!

PS: Maddie is adorable ^-^
 

heza

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I wouldn't put plants directly on a wooden fence, it probably would rot the fence faster. I was thinking more of it to cover the 'backup' wire fence.

Oohhhh... yeah, that makes more sense. :e2smack:

Brightdreamer said:
Just as a caution about wisteria, if you're intending to plant it near a fence or any structure - it's been known to shift houses off their foundations. Also, the ASPCA site lists wisteria it as potentially toxic (if non-fatal) to dogs. Link Here

Right. Lots to consider, then. I'll do some more research. (It's not near a foundation, btw.) But thanks of the toxicity info. She does sometimes gnaw on stuff.
 

heza

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Our little guy also has aggression issues himself, and trying to get him out of situations is SO STRESSFUL OH MY GOD.

Soooo stressful. If she were any bigger, I wouldn't be able to pull her away from that kind of thing.

...Then the ACO will act accordingly, but they have us tell residents that "dogs bark, it's what they do."
Yeah... little reluctant to have my name attached to anything the neighbors might see. And... I really don't mind the barking. I mean, it's annoying, but I know dogs bark, so if that's all they were doing, it'd be okay and I'd learn to live with it. Other dogs in the neighbor hood bark plenty. It's the fighting through the fence and the body checking... Would I report that the same way I would nuisance barking?

I know what it's like to be woken up at 3 am by a dog being beaten (a few houses down from us one summer night) and I know what it's like to listen to another neighbor's dog basically plead-bark to be let in because there is freezing rain/sleet. It's horrific to listen to and definitely cruelty. :/
Yeah, that part is less annoying and more... "OMG, I have to save that dog!"

That new boxer does sound a bit aggressive. And the doberman doesn't sound too friendly either. Them not being exercised/trained/loved/etc. regularly is probably contributing to that. I can bet that them not being altered is another attributing factor to their behavior (Two intact males together? Not always a good combo)
I'm hoping when I ask them about it, they'll say Oh that was a friend's dog we were babysitting... *crosses fingers* So the whole issue was happening a lot last night, and I spent some time over by the fence (which seems to make things worse). They have put some kind of large chair or sling bed or something that sits up high against that fence for the dogs to get up on. While the chaos was going on down a ways, I could see the boxer sitting on the thing ignoring it all. So maybe it is the doberman and it just coincidentally started at the same time the boxer arrived. *shrug*

They do also get into fights over there amongst themselves, and Maddie really does not like that.

PS: Maddie is adorable ^-^
:D
 

Katrina S. Forest

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I have to turn the tv up during the day to drown it out, but I can't wear ear plugs at night because I won't hear the alarm in the morning. :(

I can't help much in the realm of dog advice, but as someone who wears ear plugs every night, I can say they don't cut out as much sound as you think. They lower the volume, is all. If you've got a good loud alarm near your pillow, you may very well be able to wake up to it even with earplugs in. I will still wake up to an alarm, a crash, or either of my kids calling for me every time.

I'm also a very light sleeper, though, so keep that in mind. :)
 
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Brightdreamer

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Right. Lots to consider, then. I'll do some more research. (It's not near a foundation, btw.) But thanks of the toxicity info. She does sometimes gnaw on stuff.

If wisteria's strong enough to shift a house, a fence would be like toothpicks.

Would planters be a more affordable option? Large pots or barrel-sized planters would help create a buffer zone between the fence and the yard, and wouldn't take as long to be useful as shrubs.
 

heza

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If wisteria's strong enough to shift a house, a fence would be like toothpicks.

Would planters be a more affordable option? Large pots or barrel-sized planters would help create a buffer zone between the fence and the yard, and wouldn't take as long to be useful as shrubs.

The biggest trouble with any barrier is going to be the expense. It's a really long fence, and anything like planters or pots or raised beds be cost prohibitive and take forever to buy/position/plant. So some kind of cheap wire fencing seems like the most practical solution. Intermittent plants and a vine, though, would pretty it up.

veinglory said:
Something like flax or jasmine has shallow fibrous roots that don't disturb structures.

Oh, I do love jasmine, and they sell it at the local nurseries, so I think it will grow here. Thanks.
 

elinor

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Heartbreaking to read this. Our GSD is our baby boy (who is currently taking a nap in his dad's chair) and I shudder to fathom the parts of the soul that must be missing in the people mentioned, who neglect their dogs so terribly. I would rather see a dog in a kill shelter than scream/begging in the sleet to be let inside. Horrible. Need to go cuddle our 80lb 'baby' now.
 

Canotila

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Everybody made really great suggestions. Just a couple of things:

1. If the neighbors agree to introduce the dogs, don't just stand around with everyone on leashes and let them sniff each other. These dogs already have an antagonistic relationship.

Instead, see if their owners will take one of the dogs for a walk around the block with you walking Maggie alongside. Maybe they'd be comfortable with your husband taking one of theirs and you taking Maggie. The great thing about walks is the dogs are burning off adrenaline and relieving stress at the same time, so it's a positive experience for them to have and associate with the other dog.

2. For keeping them away from the fence, there's a couple of things.

The visual barrier is a great idea. I'd almost want to put something fast growing and prickly there, as both a visual and a physical barrier in case they do bust down the fence at some point. Rugosa roses are my barrier of choice around here. They're very fast growing, pretty, dense, make nice hedges, and they're edible.

If you want to be mean, you could get a motion activated sprinkler and set it up so that the neighbor dogs trigger it when they're up against the back fence. The drawback is that they will like your dog even less.
 

juniper

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Agreed. Sometimes if the dogs can't *see* each other (or you), they'll kinda back off.

Ha, last spring we were the neighbors with the noisy dog. Our dog Smidge, whom we got from a shelter, was very barky at first. She'd run up and down the yard barking and then would stand around peeking through the fence and barking at what she saw. We have the wooden fencing that's every other plank, so there's diagonal space in between.

Her barking became rather high pitched after a few minutes and I agree it was annoying. We went out and got her each time we heard it.

And - we got a note on our door from the neighbor behind us, and then a bit later we got an official notice from the county - $100 fine - we contested it, talked to the "noise cop" who, it turns out, most likely hadn't done the 30 minute survey she was required to do, and when we said yes we'd take it to court, the other parties backed off.

We put up a visual barrier - I thought about adding planks into the empty spots, but that would be really expensive. Plus it's really windy where we are and the every-other-plank fencing allows the wind to go through, rather than pushing down the fence.

So we went to the hardware store and bought a bunch of tarps on sale and then stapled them to the bottom area of the fence. Not really attractive but most of our fence line has arbor vitae and other bushes lining them. The only open spot was by the compost row, and that's not very attractive anyway.

We got tarps that are camouflage colored - at least they blend into the fence and bushes better than the bright blue ones would. Something like this.

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-ft-11-inch-x-5-ft-6-inch-camouflage-tarp-46410.html

That helped a lot, when she couldn't see what was going on in the other yards. The other dogs. Plus it helped keep the neighbor's cats from coming into our yard - our dog had been barking at the cats too.

We were able to wrap the most critical parts for about $100. I think the half-barrel planters would be a lot more attractive, but also more expensive. You might do the tarps as a temporary measure.

The noise cop said since the noise had abated some she'd dismiss the fine if we pleaded guilty, and I said no, and then she said she'd just give us a warning (no fine) and I said ok.

Our dog got over the barking after she acclimated to her new home. She still goes out and barks occasionally, but it's just a minute or two then she trots back inside.

BUT - our dog wasn't barking because she was being abused. She was just a young pup who had a new home and was eager to go out and play.

If you think the dogs are being abused, then I encourage you to contact someone - too bad your shelters are high kill - are there any doberman rescue places nearby? (google is your friend) That might be willing to ask your neighbors if they'd like to "donate" their dog.

So sorry - I know you were really excited about getting the new house - it's always a risk with neighbors. I hope this gets worked out quickly. :Hug2:
 

heza

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Thanks, Juniper!

The tarp is an idea--I'll mention it to the husband and see what he thinks about it. We'd need to put it pretty high up on the fence, though. The doberman, standing, is about four feet tall. It still might be cheaper than the wire, though... We've got 100-ft length of fence we have to contend with.

We trying to sit out with Maddie on the porch more and keep her off the fence with discipline. She's so put upon. Lol. I feel bad. The husband went to fetch her while they were all barking, and brought her to the porch and made her lie down. And every time the doberman started carrying on again, she'd pop up and we'd have to put her in a sit/stay or down position again.

And then he started digging.

And she kept trying to get up and we kept putting her back down, and she kept looking back at me, like, "But, but, but! He's digging! In the ground!" Obviously, the dog needed barking at, and she could not fathom why we weren't letting her.
 

heza

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Oh, and I forgot to mention--now the last week or so, we've been seeing a State Trooper vehicle parked in the driveway.

I'm not sure what bearing that has on anything...
 

Maryn

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Could be your neighbor is a state trooper.

Or has riled one.

Or is friends with one, or is ill or elderly and a relative who's a trooper stops by to help out or check up, whatever. This seems a hopeful sign to me. Most law enforcement people I've known try hard to do what's right, both professionally and personally.

Maryn, wanting this to work out properly
 

heza

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Could be your neighbor is a state trooper.

Or has riled one.

Or is friends with one, or is ill or elderly and a relative who's a trooper stops by to help out or check up, whatever. This seems a hopeful sign to me. Most law enforcement people I've known try hard to do what's right, both professionally and personally.

Maryn, wanting this to work out properly

It bolsters me. I think it's probably a good thing.

I'm also a little more confident because I met our other neighbor--the one who shares the street with us. He commented about the same things I'm upset with and didn't blame me and my dog for the noise. So if another household can tell that it's them starting things and are also upset about the dogs being left outside during the freeze, then I feel more like I'm not just being neurotic about it.
 

cornflake

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Thanks, Juniper!

The tarp is an idea--I'll mention it to the husband and see what he thinks about it. We'd need to put it pretty high up on the fence, though. The doberman, standing, is about four feet tall. It still might be cheaper than the wire, though... We've got 100-ft length of fence we have to contend with.

We trying to sit out with Maddie on the porch more and keep her off the fence with discipline. She's so put upon. Lol. I feel bad. The husband went to fetch her while they were all barking, and brought her to the porch and made her lie down. And every time the doberman started carrying on again, she'd pop up and we'd have to put her in a sit/stay or down position again.

And then he started digging.

And she kept trying to get up and we kept putting her back down, and she kept looking back at me, like, "But, but, but! He's digging! In the ground!" Obviously, the dog needed barking at, and she could not fathom why we weren't letting her.

Heh, poor pup. At that point I think even though the intention was to sit in the yard I'd have maybe tried a walk 'round the block or something, to distract her/engage her in something else. Inside I'd think it'd just be worse - 'he's out there, digging!

Good the other neighbours notice too - do they happen to have a dog? Perhaps if chat them up again you could ask if someone else on the block does and you guys and Maggie could go introduce yourselves and see if there's a new yard to sit and chat in. ;) Can't hurt to make friends, and if the nice neighbours recommended someone...
 

GingerGunlock

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That poor Doberman just sounds like he's bored out of his mind and isolated from his people :( Dogs, any dogs, shouldn't be in that situation. Why have dogs if you don't want them with you? They need to be mentally occupied, and they need affection and guidance.
 

heza

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Updates:

So it froze here again, and I'm happier to report that I looked and looked for those dogs but they weren't in their yard. So the neighbors did do something with them rather than leave them outside in it.

We let Maddie out in the morning, and she was very disappointed that no one came to the fence to be dog-screamed at.... whined a lot, which reinforces the idea that she's lonely.

We've talked a bit more about getting a second dog, but we're having a disagreement about whether to get a dog from a breeder (his choice) or a shelter (mine).

Anyway, hybridizing a few of the ideas mentioned here, we've started trying to block the fence. We went to the hardware store and looked at their fencing stuff. The least expensive solution at the time seemed to be covering the fence with something rather than try to build an inner fence. We ended up buying this landscape fabric and this reed privacy screen.

The plan was to cover the fence with the black fabric and then cover the fabric with the prettier reed screen. But we're having some issues.

1) The black fabric isn't wide enough (4-ft) to easily attach to the fence if we secure it at one end of the fence and unroll it along the bottom to the other end. We have a good neighbor fence. The staples we need to attach the fabric with are too long for the cross boards at the bottom, and the fabric width doesn't reach the higher cross board that would accommodate the staples.

2) If the black fabric isn't there, Maddie can still see through the fence to the other dogs because the reed screen has space between the reeds.

3) The fabric is pretty widely woven and you can see through a single layer of it, as well.

So my current plan is to unroll the fabric and cut it in longer sections that I will attach to the top cross board and let hang down to almost ground level, and I will attach it in a double layer. Then I'm going to attach the reed screen over it, as planned.

I have to take all the staples out of the reed fence first, though, and that seems tough. The reeds aren't extremely substantial and in a lot of places, the husband stapled through them. I'm not sure what the best tool would be that would take out the staples but cause the least damage to the reeds.

I know I'm putting a lot of work into something that seems like it's the sub-optimal solution, but we've already bought at least $100 of supplies, and the reed screen looks immediately nicer than some of the other solutions we thought to implement. So I'd like to try whatever I can to make it work before throwing it all away and spending more money on a different method.

Any suggestions?
 

GingerGunlock

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Why not split the difference - is there a purebred rescue group near you?

This was my thought!

There are many reputable purebred rescues who work to keep dogs out of kill shelters. They frequently have no kennel facilities, but rather rely on trusted volunteers to foster the dogs in a home environment, which is a total win all around, because you have a much clearer picture of a dog's "real" behavior, vs. kennel behavior (especially how a dog is with other dogs! Or kids. Or cats. Etc). Additionally, a rescue will have taken care of shots, a vet check, and a dog's spay or neuter, and adoption fees (both for rescues and for shelters) tend to be very reasonable.
 

heza

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Hi Brightdreamer and GingerGunlock! Thanks for the suggestion. I brought it up, and it turns out he's more concerned with money right now... so that's really what's holding us up.

He said if I started saving up, we could get a puppy when we had the money for it. So, I guess I'm going to start cutting coupons... or something. But... adoption fees aren't all that much, and we've got extra dishes and such so... I'm wondering if he's still planning for a purebred dog. Are there any tactics to sway someone? One, I don't want to spend that much on just acquiring a dog (I have no problem justifying vet bills and food and toys and stuff). And two, I get so many posts on Facebook from my friends who volunteer at rescue shelters that I just can't...
 

Brightdreamer

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Hi Brightdreamer and GingerGunlock! Thanks for the suggestion. I brought it up, and it turns out he's more concerned with money right now... so that's really what's holding us up.

He said if I started saving up, we could get a puppy when we had the money for it. So, I guess I'm going to start cutting coupons... or something. But... adoption fees aren't all that much, and we've got extra dishes and such so... I'm wondering if he's still planning for a purebred dog. Are there any tactics to sway someone? One, I don't want to spend that much on just acquiring a dog (I have no problem justifying vet bills and food and toys and stuff). And two, I get so many posts on Facebook from my friends who volunteer at rescue shelters that I just can't...

For the record, I'm on your side. There are some cat breeds I'd love to own, but every pet I've had has been secondhand or a stray; I just can't justify the price when I know there are so many out there that need homes. (There are also serious health issues with many purebred animals these days, especially dogs; cosmetics and money take precedence over stability and longevity in too many breeders' minds, and sorting the wheat from the chaff takes a lot of hard work and research. Mixes seem a little more stable, in my experience.)

As for changing someone's mind... I don't know if it's possible, unless you get him out around some mutts and show him what great dogs they can be.

The money issue, though, is a serious consideration, even for a "free" pet. It would be nice if love were enough, but it's not.

(If you're dog's lonely, though... I don't suppose doggy day-care is an option?)
 

Maryn

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There are tools which can remove long-shank staples. http://www.mscdirect.com/product/89..._sJXegN7a0_PLA__15557577904_c_S&026=-99&025=c and http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail...=71303785042&gclid=CIGmhsCPjb0CFUNqOgodDlgAfQ are two which look okay.

Lay the reed screen flat on a level surface and hold it both above and below the staple being removed, to keep it from giving (and breaking) instead of the staple. Depending on where the staples are, you may be able to do this alone using one hand and one knee.

Maryn, veteran staple and nail puller
 

heza

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(If you're dog's lonely, though... I don't suppose doggy day-care is an option?)

Not if money is an issue, already. The ones I've looked at would be $20-30 a day. And I don't think (with our hour commute) the husband would entertain the idea of adding fifteen minutes to drop her off. Dog park on the weekend can be done, but it's too far away to manage on work days.


Maryn said:
Lay the reed screen flat on a level surface and hold it both above and below the staple being removed, to keep it from giving (and breaking) instead of the staple. Depending on where the staples are, you may be able to do this alone using one hand and one knee.

Unfortunately, the reed is stapled directly to the fence, so it might be harder than I'm anticipating. Thanks for the links! I will check them out.
 

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I know this is late in the discussion, and probably almost irrelevant at this point, but everything that's been said about the destructive tendencies of wisteria is correct. It can readily pull fences down, particularly if they're not too solid to begin with.

(Just as a note for reference.)