Is this conflict too weak?

Persei

Let it go
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
530
Reaction score
44
Location
Brazil
I'm outlining a steampunk novel (as you can see by my sig), but I don't know if the conflict I have for it is strong enough.

Namely, while it is steampunk, it's set on a fictional island with an alternative scientific timeline, and by this I mean that while there's a ton of technology regarding physics, mathematics and engineering, medicine is still stuck on its Dark Age. They don't know a thing about infectious diseases, and this comes from the history of the island.

In the first centuries of its occupation, there was an epidemy that wiped out nearly everybody. It just didn't because the priests of the island came up with a set of dogmas about the epidemy and "sin". According to them, the epidemy would attack sinful people. From then on, sick people were isolated (because they had to pay for their "sins" in the means of fasting and exile) and everyone's corpses were burned because it's a "sin" to simply bury them or to open dead (or live, depending on the case) bodies.

In an epidemic scenario, these dogmas were fairly useful as you can guess, and actually they kept most people healthy for a very long while. But medicine was stuck because there was no need or desire to study infecctious diseases (since the dogmas were enough to keep most people healthy), and they couldn't open dead bodies to study anatomy either. Abdominal surgery was out of option and surgery itself only served to amputate members or to fix small things on the limbs, because since they had no idea of germs, most people who went through surgery there would die.

So my story is about an epidemy that happens in that island again. For the readers, it would be a fairly dumb conflict since we all know how diseases are spread, and I thought of making the story more ambiguous by adding fantastic elements and keeping the source of the epidemy a secret for a long while. But still...

Would it be enough to make the epidemy look as if though it comes from a magical curse set upon the island until the MC -- and therefore the readers -- finds out it comes from germs?
 

Osulagh

Independent fluffy puppy.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
1,488
Reaction score
222
Location
My dog house.
The problem I see is that you don't have conflict, as much as a destructive force. Conflict occurs when two forces act against one another. As far as you've told us, you have this epidemic that's acting against everyone until the MC learns it's "germs", but what do they do in order to act against this epidemic? In that, you find the conflict and from there you can expand on that conflict.
 

Persei

Let it go
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
530
Reaction score
44
Location
Brazil
He'll try to discover how to fight back and this is the conflict itself. I thought this was implicit on the post, actually, but now I'm making it clear. And I think this is a very dumb conflict because the readers already know the answer, partially...

So eh... The setting is so interesting and so are the characters, I don't want to waste them in a story with a weak conflict.
 

Osulagh

Independent fluffy puppy.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
1,488
Reaction score
222
Location
My dog house.
So why don't you make the epidemic fantastical?
 

Dennis E. Taylor

Get it off! It burns!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
2,602
Reaction score
365
Location
Beautiful downtown Mordor
waitaminit, wouldn't the priesthood or whatever be really really against the MC figuring things out? People in that position have an amazing ability to be totally confident that they're right while simultaneously knowing that they need to stop the heretic. Should provide some chase scenes if nothing else.
 

Dave.C.Robinson

... with the High Command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
2,130
Reaction score
186
Location
At the computer
Website
www.daverobinsonwrites.com
I'd approach it slightly differently:

Keep everything you've got, but make the real conflict between the MC and people who have a vested interest in the current belief system. The MC not only has to resolve the problem, but also convince the population of the error in their dogmas.

This gives you a human antagonist as well as the destructive force.

No priesthood will take an attack on their dogmas lying down.
 

Persei

Let it go
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
530
Reaction score
44
Location
Brazil
So why don't you make the epidemic fantastical?

I really can't... The setting itself is devoid of magic although there are, for example, beasts we would consider fantastic.

But yes, thank you guys, I completely forgot about the priests. It would actually make the story tons more interesting considering that homosexuality is also a sin in my setting and the protagonist happens to be a gay man. He's married with a woman and has a daughter, but he also has a male lover on the side so a lot could go wrong.

Now that's what I would call a good conflict, thank you for the suggestions :D
 

magicalwhatever

Forgive me, Calypso.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Messages
154
Reaction score
30
Location
Disney World probably
It sounds like you have the skeleton of your conflict there! You have your big looming issue, but your missing a more specific trail for your MC to follow. Yes, he'll try to prevent these germs from completely destroying the island, but why? Who is your MC fighting for? Himself? His kids? Is someone, like these priests, actually spreading illness for population control? Is there a cult involved? Will this germ actually produce some strange development in technology or farming or something? And etc etc. There doesn't sound like there's a big opposing force besides germs and a reason why that opposing force wants the development of medicine to be stopped. I think the others have some good ideas, but it's ultimately up to you! I think you may just need to do more development on subplots maybe to make your conflict stronger. :)
 
Last edited:

Dennis E. Taylor

Get it off! It burns!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
2,602
Reaction score
365
Location
Beautiful downtown Mordor
Totally winging it here, because I don't know any details of what you've already done. But the guy may have completely innocently noticed something or performed some action that a logical mind would interpret as germ theory. He blabs about it, the priests find out, next thing you know there's a midnight visit to his domicile, which he barely gets away from. Now he's dodging through the city trying to stay one step ahead of the priesthood while accumulating enough evidence to prove his case. Etcetera.
 

Blinkk

Searching for dragons
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
4,528
Reaction score
591
Location
CA
I really can't... The setting itself is devoid of magic although there are, for example, beasts we would consider fantastic.

But yes, thank you guys, I completely forgot about the priests. It would actually make the story tons more interesting considering that homosexuality is also a sin in my setting and the protagonist happens to be a gay man. He's married with a woman and has a daughter, but he also has a male lover on the side so a lot could go wrong.

Now that's what I would call a good conflict, thank you for the suggestions :D

Ohh, I think this is a great idea. Very much on the right track! Me personally, I'm always drawn to human conflict. So even though there's an epidemic going on, I'd be much more interested in one man (or woman's) struggle going through this epidemic, than the actual epidemic itself. Did I explain that well?
 

Once!

Still confused by shoelaces
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
2,965
Reaction score
433
Location
Godalming, England
Website
www.will-once.com
Sounds like there is lots of potential for conflict here without having to make the epidemic magical. Human history is full of examples of religion refusing to accept scientific advances - think Galileo and the Inquisition.

You don't need to make it so clear-cut as a plague that the hero understands but no-one else does. People start getting sick. The priests think it is due to sin - they refuse to operate or give medicines but they do try to crack down on sinfulness. Cue Salem type witch trials.

Our hero doesn't know what is causing the deaths, but he is certain it isn't just sin. Maybe someone who he knows to be free of sin is an early victim? Someone close to him?

Other theories start to be banded around. Maybe it's a case of poisoning? Perhaps we are under attack from the outsiders? Perhaps the people on the island are forbidden to speak to the outsiders?

Our hero then has to defy the priests and leave the island in order to find out what is happening. At this stage, no-one knows what is causing the disease. It could be some form of plague or it could be contaminated food/ water, a genetic disorder, poison, radiation poisoning. That should be enough to keep the readers guessing.

Plenty of potential conflict I would say! Good luck writing it.
 

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
OP -- Better if you make the epidemic from a fantasy source rather than germs. The reader will expect germs.

The conflict could come from all the different ways that people and factions choose to deal with the problem.
 

Persei

Let it go
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
530
Reaction score
44
Location
Brazil
Sounds like there is lots of potential for conflict here without having to make the epidemic magical. Human history is full of examples of religion refusing to accept scientific advances - think Galileo and the Inquisition.

You don't need to make it so clear-cut as a plague that the hero understands but no-one else does. People start getting sick. The priests think it is due to sin - they refuse to operate or give medicines but they do try to crack down on sinfulness. Cue Salem type witch trials.

Our hero doesn't know what is causing the deaths, but he is certain it isn't just sin. Maybe someone who he knows to be free of sin is an early victim? Someone close to him?

Bingo. One of the first victims of the plague happens to be his daughter. Of course he doesn't enjoy the fact that he has to be married, but that didn't stop him from loving her and being a great father.

And then she dies and then a lot of people start to die and then dogmas don't work anymore and then chaos and...

OP -- Better if you make the epidemic from a fantasy source rather than germs. The reader will expect germs.

The conflict could come from all the different ways that people and factions choose to deal with the problem.

If the epidemic itself is a weak conflict, I'd rather remove it all together or put something else to make the plague only a subplot. Having a magical force such as a curse would dismantle my whole setting, so I'd rather make the story about anything else if it can't be about an actual plague.

Like I've stated, I'll try to make it seem ambiguous at first and see if it works. If it doesn't, I'm afraid I'll have to scratch it. Or use it in another setting where there can be magic, but then it wouldn't be this novel I'm trying to put together.

One of the greatest stories I've read was about a germ-caused plague though, and it was pretty clear from the start what it was; it was so horrific and the lack of an answer on where it came from and how to stop it made a pretty good conflict IMO.

Ohh, I think this is a great idea. Very much on the right track! Me personally, I'm always drawn to human conflict. So even though there's an epidemic going on, I'd be much more interested in one man (or woman's) struggle going through this epidemic, than the actual epidemic itself. Did I explain that well?

Yes. Most people would be more interested in the characters reacting to the plague than the plague itself, I think. I would be the exception but I really really enjoy scientific reading. :D

Totally winging it here, because I don't know any details of what you've already done. But the guy may have completely innocently noticed something or performed some action that a logical mind would interpret as germ theory. He blabs about it, the priests find out, next thing you know there's a midnight visit to his domicile, which he barely gets away from. Now he's dodging through the city trying to stay one step ahead of the priesthood while accumulating enough evidence to prove his case. Etcetera.

I'm planning to do something of the sorts, indeed. I've been reading a book about the world's greatest secret agencies so I have a lot of inspiration on that department now :D
 

LOTLOF

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
559
Reaction score
56
Location
In the imagination
Namely, while it is steampunk, it's set on a fictional island with an alternative scientific timeline, and by this I mean that while there's a ton of technology regarding physics, mathematics and engineering, medicine is still stuck on its Dark Age. They don't know a thing about infectious diseases, and this comes from the history of the island.

If the island has steam engines, printing presses, iron working, and other technologies then they should have some concept of the scientific method. Maybe the MC belongs to a small "cult" that feels these principles should be applied to medicine? This will naturally bring them into conflict with the local religious leaders. The priests won't see themselves as being in the wrong. Both sides will honestly believe that they know best and that the other is dangerously ignorant.
 

Skabr

Inspire.Motivate. If nothing, drag!
Registered
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Hey Persei,

Yours is a smart idea (given that you've made a concept out of something no one would have noticed!).

Just so you know, the conflict (or tension) keeps changing as the novel progresses. There is tension whenever the character cannot do what they want to do (doing research as in your novel), or what they want to say, or what they want to think.

You MC will face different kind of conflicts as he moves on. That's how all the novels move on with their plot. For instance, later, you MC might feel torn between the desire to give the cure to the ill people and to earn money (just a guess). You see, there is conflict every time someone can't get/do/act on something.

Goodluck,
Skabr

P.S. Don't worry too much and keep writing.
 

Persei

Let it go
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
530
Reaction score
44
Location
Brazil
If the island has steam engines, printing presses, iron working, and other technologies then they should have some concept of the scientific method. Maybe the MC belongs to a small "cult" that feels these principles should be applied to medicine? This will naturally bring them into conflict with the local religious leaders. The priests won't see themselves as being in the wrong. Both sides will honestly believe that they know best and that the other is dangerously ignorant.

Yep, I am trying to pull something like this off. I don't know how I will go on about it -- since apparently I can't plan anything until well after 5 failed drafts -- but that's my objective now.

Hey Persei,

Yours is a smart idea (given that you've made a concept out of something no one would have noticed!).

Just so you know, the conflict (or tension) keeps changing as the novel progresses. There is tension whenever the character cannot do what they want to do (doing research as in your novel), or what they want to say, or what they want to think.

You MC will face different kind of conflicts as he moves on. That's how all the novels move on with their plot. For instance, later, you MC might feel torn between the desire to give the cure to the ill people and to earn money (just a guess). You see, there is conflict every time someone can't get/do/act on something.

Goodluck,
Skabr

P.S. Don't worry too much and keep writing.


Thank you for the advice! I should just really try and do it one step at a time instead of focusing too much on the major conflict, that is roughly drafted out by now anyways, thanks to people who helped me out :D
 

Skabr

Inspire.Motivate. If nothing, drag!
Registered
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Yep, I am trying to pull something like this off. I don't know how I will go on about it -- since apparently I can't plan anything until well after 5 failed drafts -- but that's my objective now.

Thank you for the advice! I should just really try and do it one step at a time instead of focusing too much on the major conflict, that is roughly drafted out by now anyways, thanks to people who helped me out :D

It's good to know that you've received help. I'm glad. I must appreciate your courage (which every novelist must have) that you've done 5 drafts (no I won't call them failed!) and yet you are still ready to go on with it. You seem committed to me. And just so you know, in novel writing commitment is the most important thing, because you're always going to have to write and rewrite and then rewrite . . .

Yes, just keep going and focus on one point as usually somethings figure out all by themselves (including plot uncertainties) as you go on with your novel.

Good luck,

Skabr
 

Adamantine

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 31, 2014
Messages
123
Reaction score
16
Location
Dislocated
You have the priests for an additional conflict. Does this society operate alone, or are there other countries around? If so, would a hostile nation be interested in adding to the opposition of the priests? Or maybe there is a threat completely external to the priests such as a building war threat? That would add more to the world, and give you more scope. Just a thought.