How do you structure scenes and chapters?

Michael Steven said:

Well, there's a difference in splitting different types of scenes. A break smack in the middle of a tense action scene should be considered very carefully. But if the scene is a long discussion, the chapter break can achieve a "breather", PoV shift or even a pause to reflect on content already talked about.

Some scenes may cover 20K words. I'd definitely break up that scene for the same reason I won't leave a paragraph that covers three whole pages -- it's uncomfortable to read.

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I'm not sure I go along with that. A discussion long enough to cause a chapter break is probably going to bore the reader to death before the chapter break shows up. I wouldn't want to read a discussion that long. I'm also not sure I've ever read a scene that was twenty thousand words long, or anywhere near it.

Maybe a few scenes in some of the Russian novels I've read approached that, but I doubt it. In contemporary novels, I'm sure I've never read one.

JHFC said:

Why? What consequence is there of them putting the book down? If the story is good they'll keep reading later without some serial cliffhanger.

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Because every time they put it down, there's a chance they won' pick it back up unless the have a good reason to do so (they want/need to know what happens next) I've stopped reading countless books not because they were bad as such, but because I put them down and forget about them, or found I wasn't interested in what happened next. In one extreme case because I realised I didn't care if the characters lived or died....

At the end of a chapter is a usual place to stop reading for this session. Always give the reader a good reason to pick it back up. That's what makes a page turner -- the reader needing to know what happens next

I don't end chapters on cliff hangers (OK maybe once or twice..) but I do try to end on a hook, something that will drag the reader onto the next part.

If they buy it they can do whatever they want with it as far as I'm concerned. Set it down, pick it up, set it on fire, throw it in the trash-- just don't return it.

scifi_boy2002 said:

I suppose I've watched to much television growing up, but my chapters end much like a television show ends a scene just before commercial. I leave a little something that makes the reader want to turn the page to see what happens. I don't mean it had to be a major cliff hanger, but something interesting. I write space opera so I guess it works well for me.

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Works for me too - just a bit of a tease to get the reader to turn to the next chapter....and then the next chapter....

Jamesaritchie said:

Personal taste, but I hate reading novels where chapter break mid-scene. It's enough of a peeve for me that I almost always stop reading that novel, and move on to another.

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Agreed. Chapter breaks in the middle of a scene are one of the few stylistic things I'll wall-bang an otherwise okay novel for. They're just that annoying.

JHFC said:

Why? What consequence is there of them putting the book down? If the story is good they'll keep reading later without some serial cliffhanger.

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Good point. I won't stop reading for an occasional cliffhanger, but ending every chapter that way gets extremely annoying. It's a gimmick and if you need gimmicks to keep the reader reading it's not a very good story.

Michael Steven said:

Some scenes may cover 20K words.

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A 20,000-word scene? Um, no. Even the world-shattering battles at the end of the epic fantasies I read don't go on that long.

Chasing the Horizon said:

A 20,000-word scene? Um, no. Even the world-shattering battles at the end of the epic fantasies I read don't go on that long.

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I've read them and I've written them. Of course, my manuscripts don't end up being dinky little 80K stories either. I may have another definition than most about what constitutes a "scene", and I've read plenty of long conversations. They didn't stay on one topic, but the characters remained in one place. They became a story in a story type of affair.

Funny how folks will read a 100K book no problem, but mention a scene of 20K and they retch. As always I point out, "it depends on what's in it." I've read novellas and short stories that bored me to tears and epic stories a thousand pages long that gripped me the entire way.

Back on topic ... by all means break up your scenes where appropriate. It's hardly ever what you do, but how you do it. Do it well and it'll be accepted no questions asked.

As far as chapter-ending cliffhangers go, I use a fair number, but I don't do it for every chapter. That would get exhausting. However, I always try to end a chapter with something that'll make the reader keep reading.

A revelation. A hint of what's to come. The promise of a very difficult situation coming up soon.

JHFC said:

If they buy it they can do whatever they want with it as far as I'm concerned. Set it down, pick it up, set it on fire, throw it in the trash-- just don't return it.

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While it is up to a reader whether to finish etc, I'd quite like to have them read the next book as well. Which they won't if this one bored them


Thinking you can get away with boring a reader doesn't bode well for sales later in your career. If, on the other hand, you can make a reader NEED to finish your book....they will buy more of your books

Why throw away sales for lazy writing?

ETA I'm not talking cliffhangers here, but teasers, enticing the reader on. Why wouldn't you want your reader to finish your book

I have both shorter and longer chapters. I really just go with the idea of a chapter being like a scene in a play. I just write it until that scene is done. Does it feel like "the curtain needs to drop" so the set can be changed? That's when I start a new chapter.

I realize that doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me. It feels right for how I write

Mr Flibble said:

While it is up to a reader whether to finish etc, I'd quite like to have them read the next book as well. Which they won't if this one bored them


Thinking you can get away with boring a reader doesn't bode well for sales later in your career. If, on the other hand, you can make a reader NEED to finish your book....they will buy more of your books

Why throw away sales for lazy writing?

ETA I'm not talking cliffhangers here, but teasers, enticing the reader on. Why wouldn't you want your reader to finish your book

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Good point. I guess I should have said in my original post is that I end them with teasers. Teasers is more of what I actually do. Mostly, they're not anything Earth shattering. But a tv show lead-up before a commercial is a good example of what I do.

I outline, but by scene not chapters. The chapters I put in after I've finished writing. And if it needs parts, I'll do those, too. But while I'm churning out my first draft, I go from scene to scene. I do try to do a minimum of 1000 words a scene, unless there is a compelling reason not to.

I opened this post and initially worried before I read the comments.

In my current WIP my chapters are currently ranging from probably about 600 – 1500, maybe slightly more or less in places.

There are a few instances when they’re very short - probably 100–300 words – and this really did make me worry. They’re often the viewpoint of the villain or in some cases weather (my novel may have just instantaneously died with that…).

These sections are then grouped into ‘days’ – so I’m not sure if the day is the chapter or each section is.

I’m going to take the advice of those that suggest I just keep writing – gulp.

On the subject of hooks, I think I have a mix. A few cliff-hangers, a tease of things to come, a character speculating or reflecting. I find it hard to categorise them definitively.

I tend to write in blocks of 1500-2000 words, but I organize those as scenes typically and have a chapter consist of several of them.

LOTR is a good example of this.