What Historical Fiction Cliches Would You Put In Room 101?

gothicangel · Jun 24, 2012

Bit of fun here.

If you were God for the day, which cliche in historical fiction would you wipe out?

Okay, here's mine:

Rich, high-born son is sent to desolate outpost of the empire [Roman/British/American - you name it] as punishment/in hiding from big-bad.

donroc · Jun 24, 2012

Person of minor station relates tale of great personage.

oldhousejunkie · Jun 26, 2012

Wealthy and/or titled girl with politically motivated parents goes to the court of Henry VIII and becomes his latest obsession.

Yuck.

angeliz2k · Jun 26, 2012

Girl rebels, doesn't want to be a housewife, has modern ideas about choosing for herself.

DianeL · Jun 27, 2012

angeliz2k said:
Girl rebels, doesn't want to be a housewife, has modern ideas about choosing for herself.

So agreed. I'll see your Mary Sue, and raise you a PHYSICALLY RAVISHING Mary Sue - because, let's face it, they're always gorgeous. Authorial wish-fulfillment much? Beautiful characters have begun to bore me senseless.

Flicka · Jun 27, 2012

oldhousejunkie said:
Wealthy and/or titled girl with politically motivated parents goes to the court of Henry VIII and becomes his latest obsession.

Yuck.

angeliz2k said:
Girl rebels, doesn't want to be a housewife, has modern ideas about choosing for herself.

DianeL said:
So agreed. I'll see your Mary Sue, and raise you a PHYSICALLY RAVISHING Mary Sue - because, let's face it, they're always gorgeous. Authorial wish-fulfillment much? Beautiful characters have begun to bore me senseless.

So how about a physically ravishing and rebellious Mary Sue who has modern ideas about choosing for herself who goes to the court of Henry VIII and becomes his latest obsession? Do we have a winner?

Mine would be: the evil and reactionary Church, whose elite doesn't really believe in anything except keeping free thought down/exercising power, wants to destroy MC with weirdly 20th century mindset.

flapperphilosopher · Jun 28, 2012

Haha, yep, all of these.... very modern mindsets make me insane. Sure, characters are individuals and all their opinions don't have to line up to prevailing ones exactly, but they're tied to their world. They aren't going to think like 20th century folks! (well, unless it is the early 20th C, which is also within the realms of historical fiction, hehe).

My biggest one though are the cameos by famous people of the day. It's 16th century London and our character runs into this budding young actor and loans him a couple bucks (or shillings, or whatever it would be)... and the guy's like thanks, the name's Shakespeare, Will Shakespeare. And that's the extent of his role in the story. Nothing wrong with incorporating real people into a story if it makes sense and you use it, even if they're just minor characters, but please, no cameos!

mayqueen · Jun 28, 2012

I would say a naive young girl (usually pretty) who becomes the companion of a princess, queen, countess, etc, and comes of age. I would like to see a really creative spin on that cliche, but otherwise I'm pretty over it.

DianeL · Jun 28, 2012

Flicka said:
So how about a physically ravishing and rebellious Mary Sue who has modern ideas about choosing for herself who goes to the court of Henry VIII and becomes his latest obsession? Do we have a winner?

Mine would be: the evil and reactionary Church, whose elite doesn't really believe in anything except keeping free thought down/exercising power, wants to destroy MC with weirdly 20th century mindset.

So - I see you've seethed your way through "Pope Joan" as well, then ... ?

Hip-Hop-a-potamus · Jun 29, 2012

flapperphilosopher said:
Haha, yep, all of these.... very modern mindsets make me insane. Sure, characters are individuals and all their opinions don't have to line up to prevailing ones exactly, but they're tied to their world. They aren't going to think like 20th century folks! (well, unless it is the early 20th C, which is also within the realms of historical fiction, hehe).

My biggest one though are the cameos by famous people of the day. It's 16th century London and our character runs into this budding young actor and loans him a couple bucks (or shillings, or whatever it would be)... and the guy's like thanks, the name's Shakespeare, Will Shakespeare. And that's the extent of his role in the story. Nothing wrong with incorporating real people into a story if it makes sense and you use it, even if they're just minor characters, but please, no cameos!

I LOVE cameos!!

arvind · Jun 29, 2012

How about
1. a strong, rebellious woman,
2. a marriage that's not arranged
3. a fantastic battle scene that describes the terror and battle-rage that the hero goes through
4. a brahmin priest who tries to reform a casteist society

in 13th century India?

Ha! I know what I'm not having in my WIP

ViolettaVane · Jun 29, 2012

http://writebadlywell.blogspot.com/2010/06/historical-fiction-week-2-allow-your.html

http://writebadlywell.blogspot.com/2010/06/historical-fiction-week-3-cater-for.html

Flicka · Jun 29, 2012

DianeL said:
So - I see you've seethed your way through "Pope Joan" as well, then ... ?

Yes, I have. I have no idea why I bothered finishing it.

gothicangel · Jun 30, 2012

ViolettaVane said:
http://writebadlywell.blogspot.com/2010/06/historical-fiction-week-2-allow-your.html

http://writebadlywell.blogspot.com/2010/06/historical-fiction-week-3-cater-for.html

I LOL'ed at the example in the first link. I just love it how characters are standing around discussing how to put out the fire, instead of actually putting out the fire.

Shakesbear · Jun 30, 2012

Identical twins standing in for each other.
Anything to do with lost heirs.
Heaving bosoms.

Flicka · Jun 30, 2012

Shakesbear said:
Heaving bosoms.

Ever tried deep-breathing in 18th century stays? There's heavage, I promise.

Shakesbear · Jun 30, 2012

Flicka said:
Ever tried deep-breathing in 18th century stays? There's heavage, I promise.

I know! I have worn replica Tudor corsets and they are incredibly uncomfortable especially as I am blessed with a bosom that has much heavage. I just think that reducing a woman to heavage is laziness on the part of some authors.

aruna · Jun 30, 2012

gothicangel said:
Bit of fun here.

If you were God for the day, which cliche in historical fiction would you wipe out?

Okay, here's mine:

Rich, high-born son is sent to desolate outpost of the empire [Roman/British/American - you name it] as punishment/in hiding from big-bad.

Oh dear! This happens in my WIP. However, it is not the MC but her dad, and it happened in the past.

angeliz2k said:
Girl rebels, doesn't want to be a housewife, has modern ideas about choosing for herself.

ANother take on that: Common wife of five mythological princes in retelling of ancient Indian epic rebels against her role of wife and mother to their children and yearns for Freedom. (Otherwise, it's an excellent book!)

BigWords · Jun 30, 2012

Incurable Cough of Death. If the list of all instances from literature were present and correct on that page, it would run on for several million words.

Flicka · Jun 30, 2012

aruna said:
Oh dear! This happens in my WIP. However, it is not the MC but her dad, and it happened in the past.

Here, have a cookie. It happens in mine too, as backstory.

Flicka · Jun 30, 2012

BigWords said:
Incurable Cough of Death. If the list of all instances from literature were present and correct on that page, it would run on for several million words.

I think it's more common in film than in literature. And to be fair, if your TB has progressed to the point where you cough blood, you're pretty far gone.

aruna · Jun 30, 2012

BigWords said:
Incurable Cough of Death. If the list of all instances from literature were present and correct on that page, it would run on for several million words.

I have that one in my first novel! Hah!

Whenever a young woman vomits, I immediately know she's pregnant - and that's for contemporary as well as historical fiction.

BigWords · Jun 30, 2012

Flicka said:
I think it's more common in film than in literature. And to be fair, if your TB has progressed to the point where you cough blood, you're pretty far gone.

I seem to notice it a lot - probably because I dislike it. I also seem to keep coming across books which are set just before or after a major event (like the American Civil War) and go out of their way to drop hints and sly references while never actually progressing to the event itself. Soooooo annoying. Playing up the historical moment while not getting around to dealing with it is teasing and playing with the reader more than it is cute.

aruna said:
I have that one in my first novel! Hah!

And my case is made...

aruna said:
Whenever a young woman vomits, I immediately know she's pregnant - and that's for contemporary as well as historical fiction.

LOL. I immediately think hangover or drugs, then (if it is a certain type of novel) poisoning.

gothicangel · Jun 30, 2012

DianeL said:
So agreed. I'll see your Mary Sue, and raise you a PHYSICALLY RAVISHING Mary Sue - because, let's face it, they're always gorgeous. Authorial wish-fulfillment much? Beautiful characters have begun to bore me senseless.

I have identified the male version of the in Roman military fiction. The MC is always a handsome, smarter than his superiors, athletic/master swordsman, heroic, centurion/soldier who single-handly saves the Roman Empire from certain collapse . . . from a small rowdy bunch tribesmen.

If that isn't male wish-fulfilment, I'll eat my stola.

donroc · Jun 30, 2012

"Heaving bosom" was over used by Frank Yerby in the 1940s along with poppy-red lips -- referring to the mouth of course.

What Historical Fiction Cliches Would You Put In Room 101?

Toughen up.

Historicals and Horror rule

never mind the shorty

Dull Old Person

practical experience, FTW

My rhymes are bottomless

I'm living in a silent film

Dull Old Person

Toughen up.

knows a hawk from a handsaw

Dull Old Person

knows a hawk from a handsaw

On a wing and a prayer

Geekzilla

Dull Old Person

Dull Old Person

On a wing and a prayer

Geekzilla

Toughen up.

Historicals and Horror rule