"backpack" in 4th century CE

KaelynMiller

"Bones" + Wednesday Addams = Me
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
132
Reaction score
33
Location
Colorado Rockies
First off, I'm somewhat aware of the history of the backpack, and that the term "backpack" itself wasn't coined until last century. That said, backpacks or something similar have been used for millennia, although there are few actual samples due to the nature of materials used and decomposition. In my historical fiction account of a Goth woman who belongs to a fictional Goth tribe that more resembles the Romans in terms of technology, I've been cautioned about calling the "sack thingy with straps for carrying on the back" a "backpack."

Any historical backpack experts out there? What would and what wouldn't be out of bounds as far as the design of such an item in a relatively enlightened 4th century culture, and what would you call it?
 

mirandashell

Banned
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
16,197
Reaction score
1,889
Location
England
That's amazing! I didn't know the satchel was that old.

Would the Goths carry something similar though?
 

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
3,727
Reaction score
488
Location
Commonwealth of Virginia--it's for lovers
Website
www.elizabethhuhn.com
Well, the issue isn't what word was used in the 4th century, because it wouldn't be an English word anyway (since English didn't exist . . . ). The issue is what seems authentic and appropriate.

Satchel seems to work.

And do you need to specify in one word that it goes over her shoulder like a backpack? You could say, "She tied up her sack and slung it over her shoulder as she started on her journey." You can get across the idea of a backpack without using the word and without describing it awkwardly.
 

KaelynMiller

"Bones" + Wednesday Addams = Me
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
132
Reaction score
33
Location
Colorado Rockies
Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Satchel seems to have a lot of popularity here. Maybe it's just me, but when I see satchel I think smaller than what I'm trying for here. The MC in question will first use this item to lug two swords of gladius-like dimension, plus a few short javelins, a torch, and some miscellaneous small stuff. Later she'll use it as a military style ruck.

Pack was mentioned also, and I in fact use pack interchangeably with backpack in the novel. It never occurred to me that readers might have a problem with backpack, since the functional equivalent has been around for so long and it didn't seem a stretch to just call it what everyone knows it as now. That said, a big part of why I'm here is for the critical eye of experienced readers and writers, so if backpack conjures up images of mountaineer framing, velcro, and zippers, it won't be a big deal to work around. I'm leaning toward using a few-words description per angel's suggestion to provide the reader with something to go on, and then call it a pack most of the time thereafter.

Haversack was suggested also in a private message, and has the added bonus of Germanic etymology. What do you guys think of that one?

Oh, and in answer to Miranda's question about whether a Goth would have something like this, generally the answer would be no, but the Goth tribe my MC is from has more access to Greek and Roman toys and designs.
 

Sonsofthepharaohs

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
5,260
Reaction score
2,673
Location
UK
Oh, and in answer to Miranda's question about whether a Goth would have something like this, generally the answer would be no, but the Goth tribe my MC is from has more access to Greek and Roman toys and designs.

My expertise is in a period almost 1000 years before your novel is set, but I don't recall any pictorial evidence of Greek 'backpacks' of the type you describe - like a bag with two handles for slipping over the shoulders. Being a reenactor we are obsessive about researching the seemingly boring, every day items that everyone takes for granted, but are essential practicalities. Bags are one of them, so if backpacks existed, we'd have one! But most depictions we've found tend to be shoulder bags or drawstring pouches. So although to us the design of a backpack seems utterly common sense, I wonder if the design is as old as you think (and the Roman 'pack' shown in that link isn't like a modern backpack either - it's actually lots of small, separate items carried on a pole, not one big carry all with shoulder straps).

One thing immersion reenacting teaches you is that just because it seems logical to us moderns, you can't assume they must have had it. Toilet paper seems logical to me too...
 

KaelynMiller

"Bones" + Wednesday Addams = Me
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
132
Reaction score
33
Location
Colorado Rockies
Don't assume I assume ;)

I actually have some great human resources with regard to ancient history, linguistics, mythology, you name it. One particular conversation I remember is that while we have no pictorial evidence that the Romans used a backpack type item (just the marching apparatus you mention), and they had no explicit word equivalent for backpack, they (and the Greeks, and many cultures prior) had various expressions that implied or otherwise described a two-strap, leather backpack. There are also depictions of such items used by other ancient civilizations, and there's even a neolithic "backpack" that was preserved in ice with a whole guy attached. If there's any interest I can try and dig up some of those references, but I don't have any at my fingertips right now.

All of that said, it's not like I'm going to write a historical treatise on use of the word backpack to introduce my novel, so I'll stick with the aforementioned solution and avoid a possible turn-off for potential readers.
 

Sonsofthepharaohs

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
5,260
Reaction score
2,673
Location
UK
while we have no pictorial evidence that the Romans used a backpack type item (just the marching apparatus you mention), and they had no explicit word equivalent for backpack, they (and the Greeks, and many cultures prior) had various expressions that implied or otherwise described a two-strap, leather backpack.

I'd be very interested in learning more about any Greek expression that implies that - if you can dig it out, I'd be grateful for a reference :)

Thanks
 

KaelynMiller

"Bones" + Wednesday Addams = Me
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
132
Reaction score
33
Location
Colorado Rockies
Both Greek and Latin have generic words for luggage, skueros and sarcinam respectively. Following is an example from each language that implies backpack (and there are others):

An ancient Greek proverb reads, Ekastos anthropos duo peras ferei, ten men emprosthen, ten dopisthen. This example uses the word pera, more literally translated as pack, but the implication in the translation is still there: "Each man carries two packs, one in front, one behind. It's technically metaphorical but wouldn't make sense if a mechanism for carrying a load on one's back didn't exist.

In Plautus you can find the phrase, Nisi uti sarcinam constringam et clupeoum ad dorsum accomodem, which translates, "I may as well strap up the pack and sling the shield on my back." If this doesn't scream backpack, I don't know what does.

I'll also point out that for epic journeys, both the Greeks and Romans relied heavily upon ships and pack animals. We don't have much in the way of recorded small scale travel or utilitarian short range transport of goods that would have relied more on backpack type containers, and as I mentioned before, it's not a stretch to suggest that any and all evidence of such gear would have long since decomposed. The historians I've conferred with have a great deal of difficulty buying that two of the most advanced civilizations of their time didn't have this basic form of pack that other less advanced/earlier civilizations did.

I hope you find this interesting, if not actually definitive.
 

gothicangel

Toughen up.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
7,907
Reaction score
691
Location
North of the Wall
In Plautus you can find the phrase, Nisi uti sarcinam constringam et clupeoum ad dorsum accomodem, which translates, "I may as well strap up the pack and sling the shield on my back." If this doesn't scream backpack, I don't know what does.

Personally, I would stick with 'pack,' mainly because 'backpack' is going to sound anachronistic to a reader, even if it isn't. The only time I've been aware of Romans and Greeks carrying stuff on their backs are soldiers. Everyone else tended to use horses, mules and carts.
 

Nikweikel

Registered
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
48
Reaction score
4
Location
California
The problem with backpack is that it conjures up very specific images in my mind of buses and lockers and textbooks, etc...

I'd go with pack. When I hear the word (as worn by a human) I think old-timey leather backpack. A satchel to me is something purselike I'd sling over one shoulder. Any word in another language would pull me out the story; the detail being too minute to justify broadening my vocabulary (unless the packs are a significant part of the story.)