So should gun-owning school teachers carry their personal guns in the classroom?

Roger J Carlson

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Often the kids will go hunting before school and have a shotgun or two in their vehicles right on the school parking lot.
That's interesting. That used to be the case here in Michigan, but no longer. Most schools ban guns anywhere on the property.

But I remember when kids would bring guns to school during deer season to go hunting as soon as they got out. My brother-in-law (who is a few years older) remembers shooting guns in a range in the basement of the school.

Ironically, there were no school shootings then.
 

shakeysix

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PS--Actually that whole thing was written with tongue lodged firmly in cheek. I keep my guns--shotgun and small rifle locked in a cabinet in a house thirty miles from here. I don't keep them in my house because my family has a problem with depression and bi-polar.

I would not want to give up my guns but I don't want them out and about right now. If the mountain lion shows up I'll just have to chunk it with a rock. That works with bob cats and coyotes. If a school shooter shows up I will lock the kids into my classroom BEFORE they get to their guns. It won't be easy but I will do it!
 
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Haggis

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That's interesting. That used to be the case here in Michigan, but no longer. Most schools ban guns anywhere on the property.

But I remember when kids would bring guns to school during deer season to go hunting as soon as they got out. My brother-in-law (who is a few years older) remembers shooting guns in a range in the basement of the school.

Ironically, there were no school shootings then.
I was in the shooting club in high school. We competed against other schools, but I can't remember if any of them actually had a shooting range inside. I know ours did not.
 

Jamiekswriter

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My knee jerk reaction was hell yes! If the principal had been armed, she could have stopped the gunman. But I think a better answer would be, I'd like there to be a policeman stationed at the school or an ex-military experienced security guard.

I brought my 5-year-old to kindergarten today. I walked him to his classroom and I was comforted by the policeman there by the door. That someone who was trained for these types of situations was there.

I dunno. I'm still so mad and sad. But mostly scared.
 
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fireluxlou

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My knee jerk reaction was hell yes! If the principal had been armed, she could have stopped the gunman.

That's an awful burden to place on the head teacher when they have so much to deal with already. And imagine the intense scrutiny and media shaming of her if she couldn't stop the gunman even if she was allowed to be armed in school.
 

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That's interesting. That used to be the case here in Michigan, but no longer. Most schools ban guns anywhere on the property.

But I remember when kids would bring guns to school during deer season to go hunting as soon as they got out. My brother-in-law (who is a few years older) remembers shooting guns in a range in the basement of the school.

Ironically, there were no school shootings then.

Same here. Kids had guns in gun racks in the back window of their trucks. And we took the first day of hunting season off.

(About a third of my schools here do, still.)

Sad to say, we don't live in that culture anymore. Bringing it back around to my belief that it isn't just gun control that needs to be addressed to fix this. This is a larger, culturally ingrained problem.
 

Jamiekswriter

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raburrell & fireluxlou - It is probably my own wishful thinking. I certainly didn't mean to come across as blaming the principal. I guess it was because I wish someone anyone had put that asshole to the floor the moment he walked into that school. From the account I read, the principal lunged at the gunman. No one is media shaming her for not stopping him. She's lauded as a hero -- and rightfully so. I guess I figured if she was willing to lunge unarmed at a loaded for bear maniac, she would have been willing -- if trained -- to shoot him. Again -- wishful thinking and speculation on my part. And a good deal of trying to find a solution to comfort me when I drop my son off in the morning and wonder what if it's the day some other asshole decides to storm a kindergarten class.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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I'd suggest that if a teacher is not responsible enough to carry a concealed weapon in school, then he or she should not be responsible enough to carry anywhere. Conversely, if they are responsible enough to carry other places, they should be responsible enough to carry at school.
Schools have anti-weapons policies in place. I think we've discussed it more than once where a student was expelled for bringing a squirt gun, a kitchen knife that they had forgotten was in thei bookbag for whatever legitimate reason.

So I'm not sure how you get around an anti-weapons policy to allow teachers to pack heat.
 

Xelebes

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raburrell & fireluxlou - It is probably my own wishful thinking. I certainly didn't mean to come across as blaming the principal. I guess it was because I wish someone anyone had put that asshole to the floor the moment he walked into that school. From the account I read, the principal lunged at the gunman. No one is media shaming her for not stopping him. She's lauded as a hero -- and rightfully so. I guess I figured if she was willing to lunge unarmed at a loaded for bear maniac, she would have been willing -- if trained -- to shoot him. Again -- wishful thinking and speculation on my part. And a good deal of trying to find a solution to comfort me when I drop my son off in the morning and wonder what if it's the day some other asshole decides to storm a kindergarten class.

Personally, I think if she was prepared to tackle the culprit, tackling like she had would have been the best tactic. Nothing worse than having one of your own bullets end a child's life because you missed, because you were too wired up on adrenaline, because you misfired.
 

raburrell

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raburrell & fireluxlou - It is probably my own wishful thinking. I certainly didn't mean to come across as blaming the principal. I guess it was because I wish someone anyone had put that asshole to the floor the moment he walked into that school. From the account I read, the principal lunged at the gunman. No one is media shaming her for not stopping him. She's lauded as a hero -- and rightfully so. I guess I figured if she was willing to lunge unarmed at a loaded for bear maniac, she would have been willing -- if trained -- to shoot him. Again -- wishful thinking and speculation on my part. And a good deal of trying to find a solution to comfort me when I drop my son off in the morning and wonder what if it's the day some other asshole decides to storm a kindergarten class.
No, I get that (I have a son in kindergarten too).

It's just that even if she'd literally been walking around with something more than a hand gun on her, I don't see any outcome other than the one that happened. He would've had the advantage of surprise, he had body armour, a large rifle, etc. That's even *if* she had it on her. Never mind if she'd been floating between classrooms as administrators often do, or in a meeting somewhere, and the weapons had been locked in the office. I get that some people find it comforting, the idea that these rampages, once started, could be neatly headed off, I just don't see it as realistic.
 

fireluxlou

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raburrell & fireluxlou - It is probably my own wishful thinking. I certainly didn't mean to come across as blaming the principal. I guess it was because I wish someone anyone had put that asshole to the floor the moment he walked into that school. From the account I read, the principal lunged at the gunman. No one is media shaming her for not stopping him. She's lauded as a hero -- and rightfully so. I guess I figured if she was willing to lunge unarmed at a loaded for bear maniac, she would have been willing -- if trained -- to shoot him. Again -- wishful thinking and speculation on my part. And a good deal of trying to find a solution to comfort me when I drop my son off in the morning and wonder what if it's the day some other asshole decides to storm a kindergarten class.

I meant media shaming as in, if she was armed and say misfired, missed etc accidentally killed someone else, a kid besides the shooter in the heat of the moment. Not that she is being shamed now. Just that if she didn't kill him dummies would ask stupid things about 'she had a gun and she couldn't stop him' and critcise her for being armed like people are now that she wasn't armed. I doubt she would have got him he had bulletproof clothing on. And it's not something you can reallly prepare for.
 

Jamiekswriter

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Xelebes it's a hell of a situation either way. It's just so easy to get distracted by the "what if" scenarios.

From my understanding of the scene though, there weren't any children in the hallway to get hit by a misfire. Then again there are so many conflicting reports I don't even know what's a fact and what's a widely spread rumour.

That's why I think the better answer instead of letting teachers have their guns was to have police presence at school or an ex-military security guard. They're trained for handling the adreneline.
 

Jamiekswriter

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Yeah, I hadn't taken account for the body armor. I hadn't realized he was wearing any, but it makes sense.

I guess as a writer I was trying to rewrite the scene with a happy ending. :( I assumed she would have had her gun on her. I assumed she'd be a crack shot. Now, that's making her one of my fiction characters and not real at all. Which is completely unfair. Dawn Hochsprung deserves better. She was a wonderful principal, a great mom and made an impact in many peoples lives.

It's just so easy to try and rewrite history. Guess I've been watching too many Dr. Who episodes where the good guys get a chance to stop the bad guys.
 

Cyia

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I'm curious, having come into this late -- has anyone mentioned the "active resistance" drills that have been going on in a couple of Texas districts for a couple of years, now?

Basically, kids are taught that if someone forces their way into the room, they should start throwing things at him/her and get moving. Throw books, chairs, even pencils if that's all you have, with the intent to make it harder for the assailant to maneuver. If nothing there's nothing else to throw, they're told to rush the door en masse and yell rather than to hide under their desks where they can be easily reached. In theory the chaos makes it more difficult to hit a target, and the rushing at the door by several (even small) bodies at once can knock even a large, grown man to the floor.

Again - in theory. No school where the drills have been carried out has had an actual incident to test their effectiveness.
 

blacbird

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That's why I think the better answer instead of letting teachers have their guns was to have police presence at school or an ex-military security guard. They're trained for handling the adreneline.

As others in this thread have pointed out, the expense of hiring, training and equipping special security people for every public school building in the nation is utterly unpalatable. These kinds of mass shootings have taken place in theaters (James Holmes), restaurants (James Huberty, George Hennard), post offices (Patrick Sherrill), private business offices (Mark Barton), outdoor open areas (Jared Loughner), as well as schools. The setting is anyplace a lot of people are relatively confined in an area the shooter can target. There's no way to guarantee security in any of these settings.

Turning schools into armed camps isn't an answer.

caw
 

backslashbaby

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I think well-trained security is certainly allowable, but not anyone who is not or has not been in a profession that included live firearm training. I'm thinking cops, ex-cops, and current and past military.

I wouldn't require a security guard at schools like in China (now), due to cost and community differences. But I'd let them have one or many.

We have armed security protecting our money as it drives around, and protecting many banks. I can't imagine our kids can't be seen as as important. Again, I wouldn't force a community to do that, though.

Our high school back in the day had an armed cop, yep. The year after I graduated. When I went, weapons were a huge problem (mostly knives). I was so happy to see that cop.

(And the principal also started calling the police during assaults my senior year, and that helped so much. We used to cheer when some violent bully got handcuffed and put in the back of a squad car while we were standing outside at lunch.) My school had 2000 students.
 

robeiae

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Ironically, there were no school shootings then.
Oh, I don't know. There've been school shootings--meaning people being shot at a school--all across time. Do you mean "rampage"-type killings? I'd agree that the frequency of such has increased in recent decades, but I don't know how that works out, with regard to population and demographics.

Here's a blast from the past, circa 1978: http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...7osAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PBMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6850,3664960

The student in this case--13 years old at the time--went into class and shot his 29 year old teacher multiple time with a .22 rifle. He never went to trial, was committed, and supposedly is now a practicing attorney
 

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PS--Actually that whole thing was written with tongue lodged firmly in cheek. I keep my guns--shotgun and small rifle locked in a cabinet in a house thirty miles from here. I don't keep them in my house because my family has a problem with depression and bi-polar.

I would not want to give up my guns but I don't want them out and about right now. If the mountain lion shows up I'll just have to chunk it with a rock. That works with bob cats and coyotes. If a school shooter shows up I will lock the kids into my classroom BEFORE they get to their guns. It won't be easy but I will do it!

Phew! Glad to know that, LOL!

Not used to Americans using irony........


:brit
 

Williebee

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That's why I think the better answer instead of letting teachers have their guns was to have police presence at school or an ex-military security guard. They're trained for handling the adreneline.

Yet again, New York City. Less than four months ago. Lone gunman. Two dead. Nine injured. All nine shot by trained professionals.
 

TerzaRima

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as a Brit, it shocks me that anyone can seriously discuss having more guns in schools, rather than less. More guns anywhere, rather than less. It shocks me to my socks.

Me too, and I'm not a Brit. Hospitals attract disgruntled nuts with guns, probably more than schools--does anyone really think that medical personnel should start carrying?
 

backslashbaby

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Yet again, New York City. Less than four months ago. Lone gunman. Two dead. Nine injured. All nine shot by trained professionals.

Hadn't the guy just murdered someone and was a little farther away in the crowd, still fully armed and dangerous? I may be thinking of the wrong story.