Penis sword plausibility

DanLett · Sep 30, 2014

I knew that topic would get your attention.

OK, there's no easy way to ask this.

I have been playing with a story that has a breed of humanoid creature that shares some characteristics with wasps. Mainly, they have a stinger that becomes "aroused" during battle and may be used as a front mounted weapon that — effectively — screws people to death.

Now, I think this is hilarious, but I am hoping I can write it in such a way that it will instead be horrifying and as believable as fantasy creatures get.

My intention is not to do some sort of gender critique.

Do you think I can get this idea beyond laughable?
Does it help or hinder my case that only the females have this ability?

blacbird · Sep 30, 2014

The penis, mightier than the sword.

caw

William Haskins · Sep 30, 2014

read naked lunch. a lot of similar imagery. could be helpful.

zanzjan · Sep 30, 2014

I'm not very keen on "shock value" subject-lines, in general.

Is the stinger also a reproductive organ? If so, how does that fit in with the bearers being female, biologically and evolutionarily, and if so, why call it a "penis"?

If not, then there's certainly room to make a pretty scary creature that has a stinger-like weapon that can be deployed in a fight, just like wasps -- the vast majority of which are female -- but if so, why call it a "penis"?

William Haskins · Sep 30, 2014

zanzjan said:
but if so, why call it a "penis"?

because wee-wee sounds juvenile.

Viridian · Sep 30, 2014

zanzjan said:
I'm not very keen on "shock value" subject-lines, in general.

Is the stinger also a reproductive organ? If so, how does that fit in with the bearers being female, biologically and evolutionarily, and if so, why call it a "penis"?

If not, then there's certainly room to make a pretty scary creature that has a stinger-like weapon that can be deployed in a fight, just like wasps -- the vast majority of which are female -- but if so, why call it a "penis"?

Agreed. Technically, it would be a pseudo-penis. Like hyenas.

And I don't think it would make much sense to make females the ones who use it. Insects like wasps usually live in arrangements where there is one female and thousands of males, yes? How close are these creatures to wasps? Do they live in a hive-like society, or is the only similarity to wasps the whole stinger thing?

Lillith1991 · Sep 30, 2014

William Haskins said:
because wee-wee sounds juvenile.

And why not just call the damn thing a stinger? At least that would sound reasonable as far as naming the thing.

Amadan · Sep 30, 2014

Yeah, either it's a penis (in which case, no, the idea of it being used in battle cannot be other than laughable) or it's some other organ mounted in approximately the same place (in which case, it's still going to look like the author is going for a cheap gag).

kuwisdelu · Sep 30, 2014

Cock fighting is no laughing matter.

DanLett · Sep 30, 2014

Perhaps I should not have used penis, but in my defence I did so because that is what it would look like on a human body, and that is the effect that I am wary of — I assure you the shock value was entirely coincidental.

Finally, my limited research (wikipedia) suggests that the stinger is a female sex organ, so again, I'm not doing this for laughs. I'm serious about it. Here's the quote:
"An ovipositor, or stinger (which is only present in females because it derives from the ovipositor, a female sex organ)."

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasp

So take it easy on me. I'm not trying to be a dick here. (guffaw). I'm looking for serious opinions as to the viability of this thing.

Cheers

Witch_turtle · Sep 30, 2014

Have you seen Tokyo Gore Police? That's probably not helpful whatsoever but it's all I can think of . . .

*Cough* anyway to answer your question I'm sure that you can have this come across as horrifying and creepy if you're careful about how you write it. Even if it "looks" like a penis (although I'm picturing something much larger and . . . sleeker?) I think you can figure out a way to describe it in a horrifying and non-hilarious way. I have no real suggestions as to how--I suppose the only way to go is to experiment and get feedback in SYW/brainstorming or from beta readers.

Good luck

Amadan · Sep 30, 2014

Well, if these are alien humanoid creatures, sure, it's as viable as you can make it.

The imagery, though, particularly if you describe them as "screwing people to death," is going to look like it's being done for shock and/or humor value.

Some horror can make stuff like that work, but it'll be hard not to look like a cheap gag.

Polenth · Sep 30, 2014

ViridianChick said:
Insects like wasps usually live in arrangements where there is one female and thousands of males, yes?

No. Workers of social ant / bee / wasp species are usually females.

zanzjan · Sep 30, 2014

I do believe that an ovipositor is used to deposit eggs, which would be weird in something humanoid, but definitely could be creepy/terrifying. And hey, China Mieville had giant bug-headed women (well, at least one, anyway) so it's not unprecedented. But I'd drop the penis analogy as distracting and inaccurate, if you want this to feel plausible and not jokey.

DanLett · Sep 30, 2014

Just to make this clear, I am not proposing to use the language "penis sword" or "screwed to death" in the story. I use those terms solely to draw attention to the interpretation that I seek to avoid. I'll avoid such light hearted phrasing in the future.

Thanks for the helpful comments. I think I can make this work.

Unimportant · Sep 30, 2014

It will depend in part on how close to humanoid your critters are. Assuming they are quite similar, I'm not sure how effective it would be to have a extruded weapon located in the groin area. To force contact with the weapon into the enemy would require some rather awkward physical movements. Given how humans are jointed, how they move, and how they fend off contact, I would've thought that it would be better to have the weapon in a location from which body-body contact is usually initiated -- hand, foot, knee, shoulder.

Marlys · Sep 30, 2014

How big is this thing? Because if it's roughly the size of a human penis, how could the person get close enough to someone else in battle to sting them? Do they fly? Do their opponents fight with pen knives?

It would be awkwardly placed, even if it gets 2-3 feet long (and how would that happen?). The enemy just needs a gun. Even with a sword, they opponent would have the advantage of maneuverability--the weenie sword is going to be fixed in place. Unless it's detachable, and then it's just another sword.

Sorry, I just can't see how it would work logistically.

DanLett · Sep 30, 2014

Good input. Yeah, I see it as a close quarters weapon akin to the human bite or headbutt. It would not be huge, nor would it be a primary weapon, but it would be venomous and freaky enough that you would not want to get anywhere near a wrestling scenario with one of these beings.

Personally, I think it would be terrifying if a six foot being with a stinger wrapped its limbs around you to hold you in place while it poisoned you to death.

frimble3 · Sep 30, 2014

Marlys said:
How big is this thing? Because if it's roughly the size of a human penis, how could the person get close enough to someone else in battle to sting them? Do they fly? Do their opponents fight with pen knives?

It would be awkwardly placed, even if it gets 2-3 feet long (and how would that happen?). The enemy just needs a gun. Even with a sword, they opponent would have the advantage of maneuverability--the weenie sword is going to be fixed in place. Unless it's detachable, and then it's just another sword.

Sorry, I just can't see how it would work logistically.

^This^. It might be an interesting porn-superhero image, but trying to visualize it actually working as a weapon makes my head hurt.
It sounds more like something a crazed scientist* would do to make some kind of super-army, than anything that would naturally develop.
*And the crazed scientists always lose in these schemes. Just ask Dr. Moreau.

Unimportant · Sep 30, 2014

Why did your creatures evolve this weapon? Was it to fight against each other? Or has the species developed it specifically to combat humans (in which case, unless they have a remarkable mutation rate and a very short generational span, humans probably would've evolved ways to combat either the weapon or its venom.)

DanLett · Sep 30, 2014

Unimportant said:
Why did your creatures evolve this weapon? Was it to fight against each other? Or has the species developed it specifically to combat humans (in which case, unless they have a remarkable mutation rate and a very short generational span, humans probably would've evolved ways to combat either the weapon or its venom.)

Parallel evolution. Stinger is left over. Something like that. Its not earth, I'm just using existing creatures as inspiration for alternative hominids. I don't think its any weirder than the average lord of the rings beastie.

Viridian · Sep 30, 2014

Polenth said:
No. Workers of social ant / bee / wasp species are usually females.

Huh. Didn't know that.

Unimportant · Sep 30, 2014

If you can make it work for the reader, that's all that matters in the end.

rwm4768 · Sep 30, 2014

You might want to take a look at Adrian Tchaikovsky's Shadows of the Apt series. It features humans with insect characteristics, including wasps, which have a kind of magical sting (if I interpreted it correctly).

I think it's perfectly doable as long as you don't call attention to it looking like a giant, sharp penis.

Witch_turtle · Sep 30, 2014

DanLett said:
Good input. Yeah, I see it as a close quarters weapon akin to the human bite or headbutt. It would not be huge, nor would it be a primary weapon, but it would be venomous and freaky enough that you would not want to get anywhere near a wrestling scenario with one of these beings.

Personally, I think it would be terrifying if a six foot being with a stinger wrapped its limbs around you to hold you in place while it poisoned you to death.

I can totally see it--it would be like those "ReDead" enemies in Ocarina of Time that jump on you (arms and legs wrapped around your upper body), only instead of "biting"/eating you they'd be stinging you with their stinger-thing. Very creepy. Especially if they have longer-than-normal, powerful arms and legs, that maybe aren't jointed quite the way normal human limbs are?

Penis sword plausibility

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