Writing Courses - experiences please

You can get an excellent all-around writing education just from the forums and peer critiques, in my opinion. But if there's a particular aspect you want to focus on or you just prefer learning in a more structured way, classes (whether online or in person) are great too and so are the self-study books. I've done all of them, and I'd say it just depends, all the way around. Of course some of them are better than others and that's a chance you have to take.

There are many ways to learn. If you have the money and online courses are what calls to you, why not.

I am a big fan of writing courses. I have done both online and in person. Since you are interested in online I will give you two recommendations. the Gotham Writers Workshop and One Story's Write a Short Story with Hannah Tinti. I think both were excellent and worth the money.

Gotham offers a lot of different course options. If I wasn't already taking writing courses in person as part of my MFA, I would take another Gotham course. I imagine I will in the future. Seriously, the course I took changed my life as a writer. Gotham courses are not cheap, but I see it as an investment in myself and my dreams.

A much cheaper alternative is the One Story option. This is a week long course that breaks down writing a short story with day-by-day lessons as you write your own short story. It also offers instruction and videos from Hannah Tinti. I really liked it, and when I took it this course was less than $100. It's only a week, and no one is going to read your story. It's not a workshop, but it is a cheaper alternative.

I know you said you are only interested in online right now, but there are some 10-day, in-person workshop conferences like Tin House and Bread Loaf. I really want to go to one or both of these. They are pretty expensive, but a good friend of mine did Tin House twice. Again, I see it as an investment to study under great writers. With conferences like these you have to apply to get in, and they are VERY competitive. They are not for beginner writers. I am yet to make the cut, but if either of these places let me in, I will go in a second.

Holly Lisle has a substantial number of online writing courses, from free to $500ish. I've taken a couple -- she has an interesting approach, and is far more structured than I am, but her processes are flexible enough you can take out what works for you. Start with one of the free courses and see if it fits what you're looking for.

[FONT=&quot]First let me say that different things work for different people. Personally, I do not like writing courses. I have not taken one since college, and I will never take one again.

I've found it's far more useful to be very selective when choosing the type of person to share/learn with; I search for people who might be harsh but who give criticism from a good place (i.e. they want to help me accomplish my goals). Too often people in writing courses seem to be there mostly to prop up their own egos. I have little time or patience for people who want to be mean and nasty for the sake of it. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I’ve only ever taken one online writing course. It was probably the worst mistake of my life. People were not mean or nasty for the most part; they were just disinterested. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Examples of the "[FONT=&quot]g[/FONT]ood[FONT=&quot]" [/FONT]feedback I got:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] “I really liked your plot!” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Your character seemed really nice!” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“I could really see myself going there!”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Well done! I’d read it again!”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Wow! You really nailed it.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Examples of the [FONT=&quot]negative [/FONT]feedback I got:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“Maybe find another word for [insert word they took exception to].”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“I think you mean ‘there’ not ‘their.’”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Maybe your character should be [insert whatever gender/age/demographic that the respondent felt my character should be].”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“I did not enjoy it. Sorry!”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And so on. None of it was ever useful. Students mostly spammed the same thing over and over again to meet their posting quotas.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Hope that helps. Please let me know if you want any more detail about the online course.
[/FONT]

I did a creative writing course a couple years ago. At that point I hadn't started writing yet, but was toying with the idea, and the course is pretty much what convinced me to jump in.

The ten week course was taught by a popular South African novelist and an editor and covered all the basics from openings to query letters. It wasn't very in-depth on any of the topics, but for a complete noob like me it was invaluable. We had a weekly tutorial video, course work to read, and several voluntary and required assignments. Assignments were submitted online in a forum-format and then we were also taught and required to critique them. I was lucky enough to do the course with a pretty sharp bunch, most of whom gave excellent critiques, and we had many more general discussions on writing and publishing as well (just like on AW). The presenters also critiqued the required assignments.

As has already been said by others, much of what I learned there I could have learned here, but at that point I didn't know about AW, and it really helped me to have the more structured approach and strict deadlines of a formal course (it's more suited to my learning style). I also met some wonderful people with whom I'm still friends today. Overall it was a tremendously positive experience for me and worth every cent.

If you want to check it out, the course is presented two or three times a year by the Get Smarter Institute (getsmarter.co.za) and they accept international students as well. Several course graduates have been published over the past few years, one of my classmates just a few weeks ago.

Several years back I enrolled in an advanced creative writing course from ed2go.com. At the time it was just the thing I needed. The cost was minimal (I found the course through a local tech college and it was under 100$) and the content was decent.

I would recommend it for a few reasons.

1. Adds a little commitment to your writing goals.
2. Gives you another chance to network.
3. Shows you tips and ideas you may not have seen before.
4. Helps to organize what you're learning as opposed to waiting for problems and then trying to look for answers.


Things to keep in mind.

1. A writing class isn't a magic bullet. I know you know that...I just wanted to say it. ^_^
2. I would be cautious of classes that are very expensive. It's not likely to jump start your writing career enough to justify a huge cost.
3. An online class takes up more time than you might imagine so be realistic with how much time you can invest into it.


Best of luck!

- A

I'm going to second fnu lnu's recommendation of Holly Lisle. I don't think I really got my money's worth out of her big revision course, because we use very different processes, but I really liked her free short story course. It's somewhat formulaic, but I'd never written a truly short story before I took it, and I can now. You can move beyond the structured framework when you get some more confidence with the thing. And when you're beat and trying to force yourself to write anyway, it's nice to have a framework, almost like a mental safety net.

I took several of her cheaper courses, too, and found them helpful. That's my only experience with writing courses.

Other than that, I'd like to +1 Maryn's comments about AW. Posting work and critting has been an incredible learning experience for me. Plus there's a lot of invaluable stuff on marketing your work that I'm so very grateful I didn't have to learn the hard way.

I've taken two writing courses from Oxford's Continuing and Distance Education department - both completely online. LOVED them. The first (Writing Fiction) was an intro course and probably below what I needed at the time, but our tutor Sandie was amazing and turned that course into something very special. The second, Young Adult Fiction, had an equally amazing tutor and allowed me to make connections across the world - I still keep up with our tutor Benjamin and a couple of fellow students on Twitter, and am FB friends with another.

We had discussions and assignments each week, but were only 'graded' on two written assignments, one due at midterm, the other at the end of term. My advice is participate in the discussions - that's where the real learning takes place! And of course, since the tutors for these courses are what we would call 'adjuncts' in the US, who you get varies from term to term.

Both were a bit expensive for overseas tuition (about $800), but worth every penny, especially since the YA fiction class is what got me to my current YA work in progress. Both were also for full credit. If they expand their offerings, and/or offer their BA-equivalent program online, I would do it again in a heartbeat.

rohstod said:

[FONT=&quot]... I do not like writing courses. I have not taken one since college ...

... Too often people in writing courses seem to be there mostly to prop up their own egos ...

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]I’ve only ever taken one online writing course ..[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]

Click to expand...

I am confused how such a harsh generalization was pulled from such a small sample. Those workshops must have been extremely unpleasant to leave such distaste.

I went to school for writing (I have a diploma and everything [even the debt!]), and this forum made me vastly overqualified for the program. The first year was like refresher; the only things I'd say I truly learned were things about marketing, and the business of writing. Other than that, it was my only real interaction with other writers (aside from AW of course) and that proved to be invaluable.

If I could go back and not take the program, I wouldn't take the program. Two years of my life, and a thousands of dollars were not worth it; I've learned more here.

That being said, my program was taught by a handful of successful, but not well-known writers; most had been published, but not widely. I'm sure if you took one from a best seller like Brandon Sanderson, you'd have better luck (but then again, most of his lectures are free on The YouTube!)

There are two components to learning -- Knowledge and Skill. You get knowledge from classes, books, conferences, talking to others in the profession, dedicated research and just about every piece of plain old living.

You get skill from practicing a craft. No matter how much knowledge you gain, if you don't or won't practice the skills, you will never learn.

Bottom line is, do whatever it takes for you personally, and that may not be the same things as anyone else, to get the knowledge. Then use it by practicing the skill.

Since you want the good and bad, you'll find that every good course has a writing requirement and that every bad one does not. The better courses require review and revision of those written assignments, the worse ones do not. The very best are both taught and attended by those doing the type of writing you already aspire to. Writing courses taught by academics can be good but are rarely of truly great value. If that academic is a NYT best seller in your intended genre, then you likely have a winning combination. If they have a proven track record in any professional writing, they're still in the top 5%.

If you had a course taught by James W. Hall, Stephen King or Robert B. Parker, you would likely benefit. Most high-end creative writing programs have faculty that works in the profession. The degree is useless unless you want to teach, but many students who have received Masters degrees from these programs have done well.

Graduates of Billy Bob's Creative Writin' Coarse of the Ozarks, not as well.

Jeff

I have not personally taken writing courses online, but I am currently in college to get a degree in creative writing and I will say that the courses I have taken have been a huge help. I will admit I'm new to writing, but I'm guessing that even an experienced writer could learn something from a college creative writing class. I know there are several colleges that even offer distance learning MFA Creative Writing programs so it's something to look into too.

The first writing class I ever took was a one hour experiential journaling workshop at a men's retreat. Taught by a woman (Kay Adams) of course. It produced a four line poem that changed my life.

I did community continuing education after that. 8 - 10 weeks, hour to hour and a half each. Helpful for the novice, which I very much was.

Meanwhile I had subscribed to Writer's Digest and discovered a by-mail fiction writing course — I believe an affiliate company. I had an extraordinary instructor who did the two things I believe any instructor is tasked to do: he encouraged me constantly, to keep me writing; he taught me to write incrementally better. A great experience.

A few months later, after hearing a local poet/professor read (and absolutely blow my mind), I weaseled my way into her 4000 level poetry workshop (my day job is sales), having never taken a poetry class before. Without even being admitted to the University. I discovered that professors are required to keep "office hours" and it was glorious. She was/is amazing.

Not long after, I enrolled in another university and pursued english lit and creative writing full time. Not every workshop was great. Many were fraught with petty feuds and hurt feelings and plenty of lackluster texts. So what. It reminded me of an old golfers joke — Know what the worst day of golf is? Better than the best day of work. I loved my time at the university.

I made some great friends at the university. Many of them are now writers at large. Producing good work. Some are teaching. Already into big jobs. One has started a small press. How can a writer, or anyone, not benefit from communing with such people? Being included by them into their creative spaces?

So, OP, I suggest you honestly assess your present skill level, and then proceed accordingly. Best wishes.

I took one class, "Writing the Novel" at Harvard Extension School. It was a semester long class. Honestly, I didn't really learn anything about writing. All I really got from it was how to give and receive feedback. What I learned from this class permanently eliminated the idea of 'beta readers'. We used Peter Elbow's "The Teacherless Writing Class" of which chapter 4 gives a clear set of principles for reader feedback. It boils down to only telling how you react as a reader. We strictly used Milford Workshop style procedures. Occaisionally the teacher would share some wisdom based on a writer's piece, stuff like 'details about how a character moves from one place to another are best elimintated in the text'. He was very good at using a writer's 'mistake' as an example without shaming the writer in any way.

But basically everything I learned about writing and making up stories I learned by reading, and writing stories.

The Package said:

I'm sure if you took one from a best seller like Brandon Sanderson, you'd have better luck (but then again, most of his lectures are free on The YouTube!)

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reminder -- I totally forgot that a student of Sanderson's collected the lectures for two different years of his courses and made them available here. They also have a forum to submit short pieces and receive feedback from other students. The focus is mostly SFF. I found the lectures on worldbuilding and plot very useful.

I can respond to your question from a different angle. I teach fiction writing--formerly at Hofstra U., SUNY, and Writers' Digest; now online in my own writing school (which I'm proud to say is one of the few recommended by Absolute Write.) You've already had some good recommendations, and I hope you'll have a look at my workshops as well, but whoever you consider, there are a few criteria that can help you choose a good writing teacher.

1. Small classes. You''re less likely to get substantive feedback from an instructor if there are dozens of students in the group.

2. An instructor with a record of achievement. If the instructor is an editor, as many are, I'd want to know that he/she worked for a major publishing house in an editorial position. If a writer, I'd want to know that she's published (as opposed to self-published), and I'd want to read at least one book. Personally I'd never want to learn from a writer who I didn't consider better than me. Whatever the instructor's background, I'd also want to know how her students fared. Have some gone on to sell their work to good houses?

3. No inflated claims. Avoid anyone who even hints that only with his/her help can you hope to break into the competitive world of publishing. I've seen a lot of writing schools make that claim, and it always pisses me off. Plenty of writers have gotten published without help from me or any other writing teacher. A good teacher can shorten the path; but the only thing I ever promise any student is that if they participate fully, they'll come out the other end a better writer. Any suggestion of a direct line to publication is bullshit.

4. A back door. If you start a course and realize it's not what you wanted or expected, you should have a window in which you can drop the course and receive all or most of your money back.

If you're interested, there's a more detailed article on choosing a writing teacher on my website--just scroll down. http://www.nextlevelworkshop.com/

Good luck with the search.

Maybe I'm not using the right courses, but they were never very helpful to me. They seemed all common sense to me, or for beginners. I want one that digs deeper, one that will takes things to the next level. So far everything I've learned has been from forums and reading and dissecting what I've read.

One course I took was supposed to get feedback from the other participants each week. But the course was that one spread out over two years and it was just way too slow. And the beginning was geared toward world building, which was useless to me, since I write realistic fiction. All I have to do is look out the window, watch people, etc. I never completed the course. It was free, though.