Being offended by the term 'fair'

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mccardey

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When was the last time you heard someone use that in conversation or, really, anywhere? Please don't cite writing that's 60 years old.

I've never heard anyone use the term fair to describe a woman in any context.

I have. I agree with Leah, that it's a bit tone-deaf, but I still have relatives who use it as a rather heavy-handed attempt at gallantry. From them it's always sort of sweet - but not something I'd encourage in general chat...
 

LJD

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But to be honest I'm not offended by it. It's just a really tired trope, so my reaction would be "Ehh, yet another sexed-to-the-max female character, kicking ass in her Mini Dress of Power complete with Cleavage Window." The only hardcore female warrior I can think of who doesn't rely on being part of the "fairer gender" to lull male adversaries into a false sense of security before kicking his ass is Brienne of Tarth from ASOIAF. So naw, it doesn't offend me, but it doesn't grab my interest either.

Yeah, this.
 

shadowwalker

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I believe the OP did state that it was used for irony and to give an archaic feel - which seems to have worked, by some of the comments here. ;)
 

Putputt

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She said it was sexist and the (probably trolling) person who said basically 'watch out, some people on this board are going to be offended by this' said the term implied that women are weak and helpless.

Ahh, fair enough. (Mwahaha, see what I did there!)

I can see where she'd coming from I suppose. Aaanywho, I don't think using it is going to attract female readers, and I'm sure you can come up with better descriptions for strong female characters.
 

mccardey

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Yeah, I also feel I should add to my post
I still have relatives who use it as a rather heavy-handed attempt at gallantry. From them it's always sort of sweet - but not something I'd encourage in general chat..
that these are not guys who buy books. So there's that.
 

James D. Macdonald

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First, words have gender. People have sex.

Next, "fairer sex" is a cliche.

Third, (trivia time!) "fair" means "blonde."

Fourth, (real trivia time!) "blonde" is one of the last gendered words in English (the masculine is "blond").
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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I was thinking about this very term this morning, oddly enough. I agree with everyone who says it's old-fashioned, and you'd get more than a few raised eyebrows if you used it in a contemporary context, but I don't think it's offensive.

I hadn't thought of "fair" being synonymous with "fair-skinned" in that usage, though I can see how it might be. In my mind, it always meant, "pretty, delicate, slender, lovely"--the implication being that women are prettier and daintier than men, and that being the most distinctive differentiation between the sexes. And that's slightly offensive, but again, it depends on the usage and context. It wouldn't be out of place in a setting where that kind of language was prevalent or common.
 

Sonsofthepharaohs

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First, words have gender. People have sex.

Not so. That's a ridiculously narrow application. Yes, gender is a grammatical term, but it also refers to the difference between male and female people - i.e. 'gender stereotypes'

Next, "fairer sex" is a cliche.

Agreed.

Third, (trivia time!) "fair" means "blonde."

Another very narrow definition. There are many meanings of the word 'fair' - it depends on context, but in this instance the word is used deliberately because it is ambiguous.

Fourth, (real trivia time!) "blonde" is one of the last gendered words in English (the masculine is "blond").

Not exactly. Blonde is used as an adjective to describe both men and women, but blond is also used of both. I think 'blonde' is more common in UK English. However, blonde when used as a noun means a faired haired woman, but for a man is would be blond, so 'his hair is blonde' is correct, but 'he's a blond.'
 

gothicangel

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When was the last time you heard someone use that in conversation or, really, anywhere? Please don't cite writing that's 60 years old.

I've never heard anyone use the term fair to describe a woman in any context.

Seriously? Maybe its a regionalism, but here in NE England we regularly refer to blondes as 'fair-haired' or 'fair.'

I had more problem with the word 'hardcore.' Which is an incredibly masculine word to choose.
 

crunchyblanket

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Seriously? Maybe its a regionalism, but here in NE England we regularly refer to blondes as 'fair-haired' or 'fair.'

I've heard it used more as a catch-all term for anyone light-skinned and light-haired, and usually blue-eyed. But yeah, it's a common descriptive turn in the UK.
 

The Otter

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If I saw the words "fairer sex" in the context the OP mentioned, I'd assume it was being used in an ironic, deliberately archaic way. Since you've stated that is the case, I think you're fine, but I'd agree that changing it to fairer sex (the traditional phrase) would work better. "Fairer gender" sounds clunky because both words end in an "er," and it kind of ruins the archaic tone, because the word "gender" (as applied to people) is relatively recent.
 

CrastersBabies

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It doesn't bother me. Are these people who know its definition in this context and not taking it to mean fair as in "good, fair, poor?"

I might wonder what it's doing in an urban fantasy, for example, as it seems slightly antiquated, but that's just me. I don't hear guys say, "She was MOST fair," these days.
 

Linda Adams

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Offensive, no. But I have bypassed it because of that phrase. I've always wanted action-adventure stories with realistic women characters, but they've been hard to find. Yet, the first impression I get from "hardcore warrior of the fairer gender" is that you put a male character in skirts (or bikini armor, in this case) and that I'm not going to get a realistic woman character.
 

mirandashell

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I agree with you, Linda. If I read that line, I'd put the book back on the shelf and spend my money on something else.
 

Deleted member 42

I usually use the term 'fairer sex' but changed it to 'gender' for variety. :p

Now that's offensive. Well, not really, but it is an imprecise use of language.

Sex is not a substitute for gender.

Sex is biological; gender is linguistic, socio-cultural and psychological.
 

Buffysquirrel

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If I had a penny for every time someone's claimed they were using a sexist term ironically, versus the number of times that's actually true....

If I saw "his hair was blonde" I'd get itchy and want to change it to blond. Even if hair doesn't have a gender in English.
 

Sonsofthepharaohs

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If I saw "his hair was blonde" I'd get itchy and want to change it to blond. Even if hair doesn't have a gender in English.

Huh, funny. Coz I get itchy when I see the word spelled 'blond' in any context. It just looks wrong. I have no issue with calling a guy 'blonde', although I'd probably baulk at calling him 'a blonde' because that term is so loaded with female bimbo stereotypes.
 

glutton

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I'd thought it was pretty clear that it was ironic, but since apparently it isn't clear enough, I suppose I'll change it to 'hardcore female warriors'. Also, I don't think they're 'male characters in bikini armor' as Linda and miranda implied but they're not exactly realistic... because they are warriors of the exaggerated 'D&D/anime superhero' variety that can take on 20 (or more) guys, take normally fatal wounds, and still come out ahead.

The fact that you reductively dismiss it as "overly PC zealotry" tells me a lot about your attitude toward women

I'm kind of offended by this post though. For someone championing tolerance (as political correctness is 'supposed' to be about, right?), isn't that making a rather strong assumption? Does someone have to be a sexist or racist to not value political correctness? Shouldn't tolerance extend to the values of others - including those who don't have political correctness as a value or are, indeed, offended by the constraints PC zealotry attempts to place on them?
 

Deleted member 42

For someone championing tolerance (as political correctness is 'supposed' to be about, right?), isn't that making a rather strong assumption? Does someone have to be a sexist or racist to not value political correctness? Shouldn't tolerance extend to the values of others - including those who don't have political correctness as a value or are, indeed, offended by the constraints PC zealotry attempts to place on them?

1. You're misusing political correctness.

2. Tolerance and political correctness aren't your issue. The issue is one of English usage.

3. Think about what you want to convey, and think about context and subtext and your audience.
 

crunchyblanket

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Does someone have to be a sexist or racist to not value political correctness? Shouldn't tolerance extend to the values of others - including those who don't have political correctness as a value or are, indeed, offended by the constraints PC zealotry attempts to place on them?
Political correctness is term often misused and misunderstood, and in fact has pretty much become a pejorative itself. The proper meaning of politically correct is to actively seek not to cause offence by using pejoratives, poor phrasing or downright unpleasant terminology when describing an underprivileged group/person.

In short: picking your words so as not to come across as a dick.

I fail to see what's wrong with that.

In short: if a persons thinks they have some sort of inbuilt right to offend others in the name of "not being politically correct", then yes, it's likely they are a racist, a sexist, a bigot of some stripe.

We are writers. Our words matter. We have a duty to choose those words carefully, to express our meanings as clearly and elegantly as we can. If a woman - being an underprivileged individual - tells you 'fairer sex' is a distasteful, old-fashioned term with unfortunate connotations - then it's probably a good idea to listen to her. Unless alienating your female readers was your aim.
 

glutton

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Are you actually arguing for your 'right' to be sexist? Really?

No, I'm arguing that you don't have to be PC not to be sexist. You can make racial stereotype jokes without actually being racist (ie. thinking people of that race are in fact inferior). I think people who attempt to force political correctness onto others are intolerant, oversensitive, and narrow minded.
 
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