Purchasing Your Book Rights Back From PA

allenparker · Feb 23, 2011

Josh1971 said:
I'm not willing to just scrap it- especially since it's the first of a series- but it has increased in length by about 1/3, and will have a new title. I'll have to change all that with the copyright. It will all get sorted out, but it's good to know that PA will give you back the rights. The $200 I'll have to pay will work out to be worth it, I think.

I am not saying to scrap the book, but think this through. I did what you are suggesting, with the exception that PA returned my rights without me having to buy them back. It was tougher than I thought it would be.

The process to get an other than first NA rights sale is pretty tough. Most people don't want to mess with something that has already had a hard time selling. Even with the units I was able to move, it was still a hard sell to the publishers.

I wrote another book, one that tied to the first two. I sold it to a small publisher and eventually was able to sell the first two as a single book. It took months of rewrites and corrections. In short, it would have been easier to write another book than to fix the PA books.

If I had to do it again, I would have left the other two books at PA, started again under a new name, and moved on.

just a thought...

Gillhoughly · Feb 23, 2011

Josh1971 said:
but it has increased in length by about 1/3, and will have a new title. I'll have to change all that with the copyright. It will all get sorted out, but it's good to know that PA will give you back the rights. The $200 I'll have to pay will work out to be worth it, I think.

Um, no, it is not. You don't have to pay them a penny.

You've changed that first book enough to justify it being a whole new book.

I'd suggest change the character and place names to further distance it from the version PA has. File off enough 'serial numbers' and you've got a new book to sell that has nothing to do with the one they've got.

When you get another royalty statement showing no sales, tell them you want the rights reverted (in writing) since it's not making money.

In the meantime do not buy more copies for yourself.

DO NOT pay them a penny. You don't owe them anything.

They actually sell their "get out of jail" reversions on their website, but the 149.00 fee + 3.99 S&H (huh??) is just the opening salvo. If you refuse, they drop it to 99.00, then 39.00 if you're really stubborn.

Or nothing at all. Many writers got out of their contracts without paying anything.

You tell them you don't have any money. You expected to earn money from that book and it isn't earning, so please send written confirmation of the reversion of rights to (your address) right away.

Repeat that same tune until they get tired of hearing it and do what you want.

P.S.

Do NOT engage them in debate or argument. They've heard it all before and won't be impressed. They'll whine about the 'we shouldered all the costs' and they have to make those back. It's all horse hockey.

You just keep saying the book isn't selling, you won't be buying, and they're losing money on it. (No need to be specific, but they lose money on it just answering your emails--if they bother.)

JulieB · Feb 23, 2011

Josh, how long have you got on your contract?

Yellow Rose · Feb 26, 2011

Not a lot of chance getting your book rights back as you will see from my thread above. Now PA have had the cheek to send me an email saying that my book didn't earn any royalties. Here's yet another email to them:

Dear PA,

How can you send me a Royalty statement email knowing full well that I have requested, and bought my book rights from you, back in January 6, 2011 because I wouldn't buy my own books. You won't even answer my emails.

To date the book rights have not arrived at either the address below or: *****U.K. or even confirmed that they have been sent.

I need the rights back, I have lawfully bought them, and want them back. I cannot believe that as fellow humans you would steal monies from an OAP.

There must be someone there in your offices with a conscience!!

Please reply, or return my rights,

***** U.K.

I am still awaiting a reply from my credit card people.

JulieB · Feb 26, 2011

Commercial publishers generally revert the rights to an author when a book stops selling. Oh, and they don't charge a dime for it, either.

Alphabeter · Feb 26, 2011

But what do "traditional" publishers do?

Thaaaaat do do they do do so [cruelly] well ...

(y'all know that song; I ain't just hearing it in my head? NEVERMIND)

Gillhoughly · Feb 27, 2011

Me: (at a birthday party for one of my publishers) Hey dude!

Dude: Hey Gill!

Me: Yanno, I was thinking since my sales on that series have slowed...

Dude: You want the rights reverted?

Me: Just the digital ones for now. Thought I'd put the series up on Kindle. I can link to your site in case anyone wants a hard copy book. It gives you a chance to sell off whatever's still in stock.

(NOT something you need worry about with PA, who will not have copies lying around.)

Dude: Sounds good. What's your timeline?

Me: I need at least a month, maybe two before I move on this.

Dude: That's reasonable. Then when my hard copies sell out you'll do your own as a POD?

Me: Yeah! They'll have different covers an' all. No one will confuse them.

Dude: Okay! Email tomorrow and we'll get you written confirmation, then send a reminder when you get them up on Kindle. I'll let you know when the last books sell out.

Me: Sure!

Then we shook hands and had b-day cake. It was most tasty.

Dear PA writers-- you'll note he never asked for a penny.

THAT'S how pros operate. Something PA won't do so long as they think you'll fork over cash to them.

BTW--busy as this guy is, he always returns phone calls and emails. Another sign of a true professional.

Josh1971 · Feb 27, 2011

Thanks for the good info guys- time to get started on some letters to PA to get those rights back.

Josh1971 · Feb 28, 2011

Gillhoughly said:
Um, no, it is not. You don't have to pay them a penny.

You've changed that first book enough to justify it being a whole new book.

I'd suggest change the character and place names to further distance it from the version PA has. File off enough 'serial numbers' and you've got a new book to sell that has nothing to do with the one they've got.

When you get another royalty statement showing no sales, tell them you want the rights reverted (in writing) since it's not making money.

In the meantime do not buy more copies for yourself.

DO NOT pay them a penny. You don't owe them anything.

They actually sell their "get out of jail" reversions on their website, but the 149.00 fee + 3.99 S&H (huh??) is just the opening salvo. If you refuse, they drop it to 99.00, then 39.00 if you're really stubborn.

Or nothing at all. Many writers got out of their contracts without paying anything.

You tell them you don't have any money. You expected to earn money from that book and it isn't earning, so please send written confirmation of the reversion of rights to (your address) right away.

Repeat that same tune until they get tired of hearing it and do what you want.

P.S.

Do NOT engage them in debate or argument. They've heard it all before and won't be impressed. They'll whine about the 'we shouldered all the costs' and they have to make those back. It's all horse hockey.

You just keep saying the book isn't selling, you won't be buying, and they're losing money on it. (No need to be specific, but they lose money on it just answering your emails--if they bother.)

Is it better to do emails or hard copy letters.

kathleea · Mar 5, 2011

I refuse to pay money to get my rights back. I have to wait until 2013 but I'm okay with that. I tried to buy books to sell myself when I was having a book signing but they never responded to my email about wanting to purchase books. So no sale. I know for a fact that several people bought my book within the last year but I still got the email telling me that neither one sold (yes, I did two in a row pretty much the same time) in a year. I edited mine myself and was happy with the results. Ah well, lesson learned.

Yellow Rose · Mar 10, 2011

Update on buying my book rights back.

I've had to flood PA with lots of emails for the return of my book rights over 6 weeks using every email address they had, plus sending several on their on-line form for new authors, because after they took my money in January they refused to answer me until March 1st. Then they had the wrong address anyway and I had to ask them to resend.
So. How about this for recent emails!
*******
Subject: Royalties
From: Me
To: [email protected]

How can you send me a Royalty statement email knowing full well that I have requested, and bought my book rights from you, back in January 6, 2011 because I wouldn't buy my own books. You won't even answer my emails.
To date the book rights have not arrived at either the address below or: 9, *******, U.K. or even confirmed that they have been sent.
I need the rights back, I have lawfully bought them, and want them back. I cannot believe that as fellow humans you would steal monies from an OAP.
There must be someone there in your offices with a conscience!!
Please reply, or return my rights,
America:- A Dream Come True
Susan Haven
*******
March 1, 2011 to me.
Thank you for your email. Contract cancellation documents were mailed the week of 10 January 2011 to the address we have on file: 28, UK. Please confirm the correct address to mail these documents and we will look forward to hearing from you soon.
Thank you,
PublishAmerica Support
*******
I replied telling them I'd notified them 2 1/2 years ago of my new address and then I got this:
March 4, 2011
Subject: contract cancellation
mailed-bypublishamerica.com

We will ignore your threats and low language. We sent your paperwork in January. Apparently you did not receive it, so we will send it again. We are under no obligation to do so, however.
Further maniacal nonsense from you will result in our not doing so.
Thank you,
PublishAmerica Support
*******
So I sent them this, tongue in cheek, because I needed the rights back.
I am so, so sorry that you took my last email as a threat, and for using 'low language' and 'maniacal nonsense.' It was not intended to be so. I was just very concerned that the paperwork that I need had been sent to an address I left 2 1/2 years ago. I really humbly thank you for resending my paperwork on to my new address. My abject apologies for upsetting you.

Comical thing is, they thanked me for my apology!

I finally got a letter from PA giving me my rights back on March 9th. But I had to laugh because they say retailers may still have outstanding copies. What retailers? And if they sold to retailers, why am I getting no Royalties?
Lovely people aren’t they?? Childish doesn't even come close.
Susan Haven

merrihiatt · Mar 10, 2011

So glad you received your rights return letter, Susan. Congratulations!!! The stain of PA will diminish over time. I hope you are well on your way in writing your next novel.

Yellow Rose · Mar 11, 2011

Hi Merrihiatt.
So glad the strain is over, I will try and get my original book, America: A Dream Come True published properly, and yes, I have a second manuscript being read by friends, America: My Land of Dreams, again a journal of my travels in the USA. They are checking for spelling mistakes or anything they don't understand as I do tend to use 'Americanisms' so it's good that I can translate.
My nephew helped me on the first book, ie. a wrangler! What's that?he asked. And that pants are trousers here, a wallet for a woman is a purse, and a handbag here is a purse with you, etc. He was very useful for all that.
The support during those trying weeks was fantastic on this web site, and if my story will help anyone else, then some good will come out of it. What PA didn't know was that I'm a bit of a bulldog, very stubborn, so continually hitting them in emails and their on-line form for new authors, must have been a total nuisance. I also contacted a TV Station in Baltimore, so hopefully Barry there managed to speak to them, too.
Have a great day, everyone.

AnthonyJones · Mar 21, 2011

I just purchases to get my rights back. How long did it take them to send in the paperwork?

merrihiatt · Mar 21, 2011

I just purchases to get my rights back. How long did it take them to send in the paperwork?

Anthony, you can read about my experience getting my rights returned here:
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185642

Yellow Rose · Mar 23, 2011

Yes, I finally got my money back from PA after nearly 2 months. Due to being somewhat stubborn, British bulldog type, I involved my credit card company, a TV station in Baltimore, and the Governor of Maryland who, after an email from me, gave me the address of the Attorney General so I've written to him as well. It was no good PA saying they sent my rights letter to the address I left nearly 3 years ago, as it clearly stated on their on-line receipt when I first paid that my mailing address and shipping address were different. It may take some time but it can work.
Good luck.
And thanks to everyone who gave good advice. Hope this will help all the Newbies.

merrihiatt · Mar 23, 2011

Congratulations, Yellow Rose!

Gillhoughly · Mar 23, 2011

AnthonyJones said:
I just purchases to get my rights back. How long did it take them to send in the paperwork?

Inform them that if you don't get results immediately you will initiate a chargeback with the credit card company on the transaction and PA can keep your book until the 7 years are up.

You should let them do that anyway. A rewrite of the book (change title, names, locations, shift up some scenes, add new ones) would make it a new edition that they do not have under contract. Your contract is strictly for THAT book, after all.

But if you want to help feed Miranda's racehorse, try the chargeback ploy. I guarantee they will get back to you FAST.

Yellow Rose · Apr 3, 2011

Just heard back from a Larry Munson after contacting the Attorney General of Maryland. Apparently, as it was not a 'consumer purchase,' there's nothing they can do about PA, so I've been very, very lucky to get both my money back and my rights. At least both the Gov and the Attorney General have had yet more correspondence over PA.

The thing with PA seems to be to contact everybody you can think of, send loads of emails to their web site, and just be downright persistant.

Good luck to anyone else who has a problem!!

Hijoy · Jul 13, 2011

The quoted $149 to me.

Sorry I'm new to this forum. They sent me an email yesterday saying nothing had sold in over a year. they said I could buy back my rights for $149. I can't do it now but at least I know it's an option. Wish I had the money.

Hijoy · Jul 13, 2011

I'd like to do that- I'm not paying that fee to get my own book back but our contract is for 7 years and I've only done 2. At least when it's there, it's available via Amazon. I need it published some other way but with no money, it's not an option. Guess I'll see what happens.

Chris P · Jul 13, 2011

Hello Hijoy. They sent me the same email only quoting me a price of $99. This was after just three months ago telling me I could only get my rights back for $299, as pulling out early would deny them their chance to make money. I told them they had already made all the money they were going to off me, and I won't be purchasing my rights back.

In the meantime, I'm staying busy with new and better projects, and it's not going to hurt anything for my book to sit out the remaining 3.5 years I have on my contract. They've already lost money on me, and I don't need that book back.

Purchasing Your Book Rights Back From PA

Naked Futon Guy

Grumpy writer and editor

I grow my own catnip

America: A Dream Come True

I grow my own catnip

Player of the Letters

Grumpy writer and editor

Delightfully Tacky...

Delightfully Tacky...

Card-carrying Geek

America: A Dream Come True

Writing! Writing! Writing!

America: A Dream Come True

Writing! Writing! Writing!

America: A Dream Come True

Writing! Writing! Writing!

Grumpy writer and editor

America: A Dream Come True

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred