The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Memphis Ed

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Jenna's interview

Guys-

Jenna's interview on my show is now up. It is available at www.edhorrell.com on the "author" link.

Hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed having her on the show.

BTW, I think we busted the bandwidth on the station server yesterday. Jenna and I wondered why none of you guys called in live.
 

Gratian Gasparri

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Ottawa Public Library Report

I just got back from our local public library. It is one of about thirty-five in our regional public library system. This is for Ottawa, Canada's capital and fourth largest city. There are sixteen PA titles in our regional public library system. So that is a little less than one title per two libraries in the system. That is also less than 00.15% of PA titles stocked in Canada's capital -- not just less than 15%, but less than Point-one-five of a percentage point. (Put another way, less than one out of every 785 PA titles is stocked in our local library system.)
 

astonwest

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For some reason, I thought I read someone (Jaws?) say that LLLP's didn't actually exist under Maryland business law...

ResearchGuy said:
Hmmmm. What next, go public and sell stock? Hmmm. Oh, what an interesting IPO that would be.

Heck, wait until all the newbie authors buy up enough stock, then all of us can sell thousands of shares short...as long as you pick them all up before the stock completely tanks (because sure shootin', they'll be hovering around $0.02 a share at the end)...
:)
 

M. Story

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James D. Macdonald said:
A lot of those quotes I recognize -- as coming from the authors' "honeymoon" periods. Has anyone seen Frank Weaver since the royalties were posted?

No one has been able to find Frank W. since the royalty checks (reality check) came out. I went to his website & posted a message inviting him here, but never received a response. I do hope he is well.

Does anyone know if the "author profile" section at PA has been revised recently, or is it the same one that they have had for a long time? It was interesting that Lynn, Argile, Tracy, and Dennis all had their profiles featured. They are all major supporters of PA. The other names, besides FW's, I did not recognize.

Marlene
<burrrrppppp...excuse me....I feel better now that I'm done reading PU's front page...>
 

Sarashay

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It's absolutely appalling that PA can LIE so egregiously and get away with it. (Well, not entirely, since people here are watching every move they make and calling them on it.) They seem to be masters of lying by omission, and this pick-and-choose press room is just a shining example of it. :Soapbox:
 

James D. Macdonald

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This on demand revolution is occurring in many other industries around the world. In the movie and music industries, for example, this on demand revolution has already happened. More dollars are spent by people renting movies to watch "on demand" than by people going out to a movie theater. The music industry saw the same phenomenon occur a few decades ago when more people began listening to music in their homes than going to live performances. The invention of record albums enabled this revolution, where millions of people could listen to music "on demand." CDs and the advent of digital music simply made on demand music more convenient. Even the clothing industry is moving toward being "on demand."

This little tidbit from Larry's message is head-snappingly bizarre.

"More dollars are spent by people renting movies to watch "on demand" than by people going out to a movie theater."

That isn't "on-demand." That's the library system. The lending library dates to the 17th century -- or earlier. Is that the new paradigm for books that Larry's claiming to have invented?

"The invention of record albums enabled this revolution, where millions of people could listen to music 'on demand.' "

Did Larry fail to notice that those record albums were mass produced and distributed?


"Even the clothing industry is moving toward being 'on demand.' "

Does Larry think "tailor-made" is a new term?

The examples Larry gives have nothing whatever to do with Printing On Demand, and less still to do with PublishAmerica's business model. Either the man himself is stupid, or he thinks we're all stupid.

===============

More on Larry's mind-bendingly idiotic remarks in a bit. I just had to comment on that one.
 
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reph

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underthecity said:
"PublishAmerica was founded on the premise that money should flow toward the author, and not the other way around."

Where have we heard this statement before? Hmmm. Jim, you want to take a stab at a line-by-line?
Incredible! They stole a line from Uncle Jim instead of hiring a copywriter! Now what? Will they change their slogan from "We treat authors the old-fashioned way" to "PA sucks"?
 

victoriastrauss

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James D. Macdonald said:
Wow, two quotes from Holly Smith! Who is Holly Smith? She's a Frederick resident who does some freelance writing. Her day job is as an agent in the Potomac office of W.C.and A.N. Miller Realtors. The article these quotes were taken from is over three years old, and doesn't appear to be available on line.
This article (in Frederick magazine) was one of the first ever on PA. I was curious, so I ordered the magazine. There's a reason why this article wasn't touted by the Stooges when it came out, and was never mentioned on the PA site before now: it "outed" PA as a POD publisher (back in 2002, they weren't just making the faux POD/POD distinction, they were barely admitting that they used digital technology), and mentioned some of the criticism of the company.

Here are a few other quotes:

"Not a vanity publisher--where authors pay their way onto bookshelves--PublishAmerica is, instead, a hybrid...combining components of print-on-demand publishing (insofar as copies can be generated as needed) and self-publishing (e.g., no middlemen necessary; even regular people can gain entree)."

"Critics of the company contend that its contract is prohibitive and heavily weighted in its own favor, which is a charge that Clopper denies."

"For although PublishAmerica is similar to other publishers in many ways, it departs from the norm in that it won't accept returns...Because of this no-refund policy, "Inventive thinking is required to successfully promote the book," says XXXX...XXXX, author of XXXX, agrees that PublishAmerica could do more to promote its books."

- Victoria
 

lindylou45

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victoriastrauss said:
I just checked, and the listing is for Publish America, LLLP. So it appears that they dodged the negative rating simply by registering a slightly different name for membership--adding a space between Publish and America.

Something needs to be done about this.

- Victoria

I may be totally off base here, and if I am I'm sure someone will tell me, but wouldn't those vile "new contracts" have been enough for them to have gotten their rating back? All they had to prove to the BBB was that they offered a solution -- which they did and pay their fees. It doesn't matter to the BBB that the solution was worse than the original contracts, as long as they get their money. They're a little like PA in that respect, not quite as bad, though.

As I said, I may be wrong, but it makes some sense to me.
 

reph

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Gratian Gasparri said:
As Christians, we are certainly called to judge a person's objects and actions. What we cannot judge is a person's motives behind those actions.
I've never been Christian, and I agree, except for the part about being called.
 

victoriastrauss

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reph said:
Incredible! They stole a line from Uncle Jim instead of hiring a copywriter! Now what? Will they change their slogan from "We treat authors the old-fashioned way" to "PA sucks"?
They also at one point co-opted an article that Ann and I wrote for Writers Digest about bad POD contracts, trumpeting that the article gave their contract the thumbs up (in fact, the PA contract had five of the seven bad clauses we identified. PA was one of two PODs that refused our interview request).

- Victoria
 

Jeff

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Okay friends, time for a little theology lesson...

Hrm.

Thanks for the lesson Gratian, but I suspect not all of us are Christians, eh?

If Shemp is not evil, he has said evil things and tried to inflict needless harm on others repeatedly. Sorry, but I don't pass the ability to judge evil as it manifests on this earth onto God and God alone. People do evil things. When they repeatedly do such things knowingly, it can pretty safely be assumed that such people have certainly embraced and can become evil.

If Shemp did not deliberately and continuously give bad advice to his fellow PA authors because he was evil and selfish, then he did so because he simply is an incredibly stupid man. I doubt many of us would agree that poor ol' Shemp was completely deluded by PA to unwittingly become its mouthpiece.

Whether Shemp goes to hell or not for his shenanigans is between him and what he perceives to be the higher power in his life. Indeed, it may well be that he does not even believe in hell, and is unconcerned about the possibility. Either way, as I understand it the final placement of his soul (if indeed such a thing even exists) is nothing that we can affect, only he can by his actions on this earth.

And thats all I have to say about that.
 

Sher2

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lindylou45 said:
I may be totally off base here, and if I am I'm sure someone will tell me, but wouldn't those vile "new contracts" have been enough for them to have gotten their rating back? All they had to prove to the BBB was that they offered a solution -- which they did and pay their fees. It doesn't matter to the BBB that the solution was worse than the original contracts, as long as they get their money. They're a little like PA in that respect, not quite as bad, though.

As I said, I may be wrong, but it makes some sense to me.
It makes a certain amount of sense to me, too, especially since this is PA we're talking about. If it's twisted and nefarious and convoluted, they're going to do it. Assuming this to be the case, then what would be the BBB's stance on all the still unresolved complaints; i.e., those of us (the majority?) who did not sign amended contracts?
 

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Gratian Gasparri said:
Okay friends, time for a little theology lesson...



What this means is that we cannot judge the eternal fate or the motive of an individual. God alone knows this. We can, however, judge actions objectively.

For example, take Shemp dispensing poor advice to new authors. We can call him on it and judge Shemp's advice to be poor. In fact, a Christian has a moral obligation to do so, since Christ commands us to "love our neighbour as ourself." Thus just as we would not want to receive poor advice, we have a duty out of love to our neighbour (including Shemp) to point out the deficiencies [did I spell this correctly?] of Shemp's advice to new authors.

On the other hand, if we were to say "Shemp is evil" or "Shemp deliberately gives bad advice to new authors" or "Shemp is going to hell for his shenanigans" then we enter into the type of judgment Christ warns against. We simply don't know the nature of Shemp's motivation. We can guess, but only Shemp and God know what goes through Shemp's mind. It is possible Shemp suffers from mental illness, or it is possible that Shemp honestly believes that he is giving good advice to young authors.



Same principle as before. Objectively judging a book "too many mistakes when it come to spelling and grammar... story doesn't follow in places... looks like a rough draft..." is not the same as condemning the person with "You're useless as an author and will never amount to anything," and "You should quit while you're merely an embarrasment to friends and family."

As Christians, we are certainly called to judge a person's objects and actions. What we cannot judge is a person's motives behind those actions.

Gratian,

I will not attempt to argue your theology with you, I , however (with the utmost respect) disagree about not judging people's motives. I look at things through a different prism.


Shemp, for example, you claim that we should not judge him (motivations), for it is unchristian. Shemp has been the loudest and most vile PA lapdog. His posts have been abusive and derogatory and lacking in respect or honor. I will not dignify my statement nor dirty this forum by posting said examples. A man is judged by his actions and his dealing with his fellow man and woman. HB MArcus, by his own word and deed has proven what kind of character instills his body and posesses his mind. His energy is dark, plain and simple, and his words are poison.

These kinds of actions speak clearly about one motivations; further himself and promote his publisher (Divine Intervention not required). His motivation while he was a shill for PA was to serve as their Enforcer; to shout down and verbally abuse any dissenting opinioin with crass baseless insults and attacks, not only on PA but on other boards as well. Hb Marcus seeks not to be Chrisrtain as is describes in Catholicism, nor does he seek a path to enlightenment and perfection as in the Tao. He seeks to further himself only at the expense of others.

You are free to choose not to judge him, that is your perrogative and I respect it and will not tell you to do otherwise. I choose to judge him and his motives; I find him lacking in character and humanity and also don't need to be told otherwise.
 

Jaws

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clintl said:
According to this site, Maryland is one of the few states where they do exist.
http://www.toolkit.cch.com/text/P12_4275.asp
Something tells me that Jaws is a more reliable source, however.
There's a highly technical legal distinction at work here. Maryland will recognize an LLLP, in the sense that it will accept an LLLP organized in another state's claims to make its general partner of only limited liability. Maryland did not&#151;or at least did not as of 01 November 2004&#151;allow LLLPs to organize there except for certain bizarre combinations of partners (remember, a "partner" can also be a corporation, another partnership, an individual, an unincorporated association, or a professional practice) in a regulated practice, such as a law firm or medical practice.

So the CCH binder is both right and wrong. I overstated things when I said "there's no such thing;" what I should have said was "there's no such thing available to a business such as PA as of late 2004." And, further, most states will not recognize the secondarily limited liability; so, if someone were to sue in, say, Alabama or Illinois&#151;hint: there's a reason I picked those states&#151;the general partner's claim of limited liability would fail. One of the bedrock foundations of partnership law is that there is always somebody who has unlimited liability.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Dear Media Contacts and Authors,

It is a privilege for me to welcome you to PublishAmerica's media pages.

Hi, Larry. I've really been enjoying watching you try to spin the facts. As always you're weasel-wording and misleading the new and naive. Tell me -- when does "spinning the facts" turn into "twisting in the wind"?


Our staffers are all very proud to be using a new technology to bring the pride and pleasure of being traditionally published to thousands of authors.


"Traditionally published" is an undefined term. It's true, though, that you do bring pride and pleasure to thousands of authors ... right up to the point where those authors are published. After that the story changes.


We have made national news, made the Guinness Book of World Records, we published more new titles last year than any traditional publisher in the world, and we are revolutionizing the publishing industry.


The national news has all been bad. The Guinness thing was a publicity stunt -- other booksignings have been larger, but no one bothered to alert the Guinness folks in advance. Publishing a ton of new titles doesn't count for beans if you didn't sell them. And no, you aren't revolutionizing anything.


Let me tell you what happens when something revolutionizes an industry. All of a sudden everyone else is jumping on board, doing the same thing, doing slight variations on the same thing, trying to improve on the innovation. One car company put cup holders in its vehicles -- all of a sudden every car had cup holders. One hamburger stand went fast-food, all of a sudden there were a pile of rival fast-food hamburger stands all across the country. Movies started coming out on DVD -- now VHS players aren't even being made. That's what a revolution looks like.


On the other hand, there's PublishAmerica. No one's followed suit and it's been six years. The big publishing companies are ignoring you, your fellow vanity presses aren't changing their ways to adapt to your challenge. In the publishing industry you're the tree that fell in the forest when no one was around to hear.


When Willem Meiners and I founded PublishAmerica in 1999, we were both writers who could not get their books published.


A pair of failed writers who still haven't managed to get their books published.


Since then, by using new printing technologies, we are proud to have enabled many thousands of first-time authors to become published in traditional fashion.


"Traditional" is still undefined. May I note that vanity publication also has a long tradition behind it?


PublishAmerica was founded on the premise that money should flow toward the author, and not the other way around.


I agree! How about you ask your authors to take The Pledge: [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I solemnly swear or affirm that, since my publisher is not a vanity or subsidy publisher and has nothing in common with them, I will never give PublishAmerica my credit card number nor write their name on the "pay to" line of a check or money order.[/font]

At no cost to the authors, we put our authors' books into their hands, and into the hands of reviewers.


But not, tellingly enough, onto bookstore shelves or into the hands of readers.


PublishAmerica operates on the exact same business model as do all mainstream traditional publishers, assuming all the costs and risks associated with publishing books.


This is a flat lie. The mainstream pubishers' business model is to sell thousands of copies of each title to the general public. PublishAmerica's business model is to sell less than a hundred copies to the author and the author's family and friends.



PublishAmerica has made a tremendous impact on the book publishing world, and continues to push the industry boldly forward by being the first to popularize a fantastic new printing technology, called print on demand or digital printing.


Again, a total lie. Vanity POD publisher iUniverse was founding in 1996. Xlibris and AuthorHouse were founded in 1997. PublishAmierca wasn't started until 1999. The impact that PublishAmerica made is tiny.

Print on demand is a business model. Digital printing is a technology. Please don't make that mistake again.

So why are so many authors disgusted by and angry with PublishAmerica, rather than with the other POD vanities? Because PublishAmerica lies about its business and its business model. This letter of Larry's is just one more strand in that rope of lies that will eventually hang them all in court.


The book industry in general has ignored both PublishAmerica and its sister vanity presses.


By using this printing technology to publish the works of first time authors, PublishAmerica is causing a revolution in the publishing industry.


Nonsense. Vanity presses have existed for generations. There isn't a revolution in the publishing industry on that account.


This on demand revolution is occurring in many other industries around the world. In the movie and music industries, for example, this on demand revolution has already happened. More dollars are spent by people renting movies to watch "on demand" than by people going out to a movie theater. The music industry saw the same phenomenon occur a few decades ago when more people began listening to music in their homes than going to live performances. The invention of record albums enabled this revolution, where millions of people could listen to music "on demand." CDs and the advent of digital music simply made on demand music more convenient. Even the clothing industry is moving toward being "on demand."


I've already commented on this shockingly stupid and irrelevant paragraph.


PublishAmerica is causing this on demand revolution to march boldly forward in the book publishing industry.


Are you hoping that if you keep repeating that statement that it will magically become true? That folks will start believing it?


Using digital printing technology enables PublishAmerica to enjoy a wondrous success in publishing the works of first time authors whose works would otherwise stand little chance of being published.


And still stand about zero chance of being read.


Although most published books are not stocked in stores, many PublishAmerica books are stocked.


Most published books aren't intended to be stocked in bookstores. The PublishAmerica books (a tiny fraction of those available) that are stocked are stocked purely through their own authors' herculean efforts.


Barnes and Noble and Borders are our largest customers, followed by Amazon and Books A Million.


If PublishAmerica vanished tomorrow, none of them would even notice. We've already extensively discussed the tiny number of books PublishAmerica moves through those outlets, mostly through special orders, and most of those special orders presumably to friends and family members.


I appreciate your visiting our site to learn how we operate and how we are revolutionizing the publishing industry.


Please check a few other sites to see more about how PublishAmerica operates.


Please take your time visiting, and I hope you will contact us with additional questions.


Anyone with additional questions can get honest answers from me.


Thank you for your interest in PublishAmerica. Let us know how we can help you.


You can start by going out of business....




Sincerely,

Larry Clopper
President

Sincerely? Unh-hunh. Yeah. Right.
 
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M. Story

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Memphis Ed said:
Guys-Jenna's interview on my show is now up. It is available at www.edhorrell.com on the "author" link.

Thanks, Ed, for putting it on your site so quickly. Great job, Jenna!!! It's nice to put a voice with the face. You two made it a very informative, enjoyable program.

Marlene
 

Jeff

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Hey! Can we have a little decorum around 'dis joint?...

From the NEW PA message board from a published or soon-to-be published author:

Uhh Paula,

You might want to change outfits, this is public.

You're unmentionables are, well, mentionable and noticable!!

:roll:

And the reply from the "Nightie Nanny"

hahaha Scully! I think PA just hasn't caught up yet! Enough people complained the last time, that they made me change into something more "suitable"! But for now....woo-hoo! Look at me!!! LOL!!!
icon_redface.gif

Isn't there a psychological term for those who relish the action of going around exposing themselves in public?
 
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Ed Williams

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Well, I've just sauntered over...

...and took a look at the new Poz digs, specifically the new message boards, and two things immediately come to light:

1. For some reason, the PA boards now closely resemble the AW boards. Imagine that!

2. Nightie Girl is down to her skivvies again, go over and take a look if you wanna. Something inside me wonders why would a woman post a semi-naked pic of herself that has to have been taken several (or more) years ago? What's the psychological driver here? Does she aspire to be Tonto's trophy babe? Oh wait, I forgot, she and Tonto are close friends with Shemp, in fact, they even assisted him in his recent stereo death. There doesn't have to be a psychological driver, hey, they're just three attention starved kooks!

ZaZ, if you're out there pal, I want you to go over, check out the new Poz digs, and give us your assessment of the situation....
 
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robeiae

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You know, beyond anything else, the fact that PA doesn't distribute a bunch of review copies for their authors at no cost, meaning that authors must buy books themselves to send to reviewers, is sufficient to prove that money flows away, not towards, the authors. Ah, that's just too simple...

Rob
 

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I'm sure Diana will kill me, but

I just received an email today that Diana Hignutt has done it again. The 2005 Independent Publisher Book Awards (IPPY) selected her book, Empress of Clouds, as a semi-finalist in the Fantasy/Sci-Fi category. Way to go, Diana! Here's the link. www.IndependentPublisher.com



Yes, folks, there is life after PA.
 

Deleted member 42

There is absolutely nothing "new," at all, about PublishAmerica's technology or about POD, or even about digital printing.

Xerox used the acronym, and the phrase "Publish On Demand" at the 1995 Seybold Publishing show as part of the DocuTech exhibit. I suspect it wasn't even new then.

I know; I helped design the exhibit, and was there. We actually produced bound trade covers on the show floor.

The only thing that's changed are the speed of the printing process, and the cooling systems. It's not new, it's not even innovative.

PublishAmerica has about the most inept process for generating books imaginable. They charge premium prices for shoddy product, product without much chance for decent distribution.

They penny-pinch, opting for the cheaper paper, ink, and cover stock, and hold orders to meet the discount thresh hold. There's no added value to the author, or to the reader, in going with PublishAmerica--you can find exactly the same equipment at printers all over the world--and they won't charge an extra five bucks per copy.
 
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*dropkicks Nice-O-Matic(tm) across room*

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/view.pl?board=genera

The so called huge traditional publishers have just as many unhappy authors. I am sure their percentage is even larger than ours.
It ain't, for the simple fact they don't have 11,000 authors. Also, the WORST day with the "huge traditional publishers" is better than the BEST day with PubliSHAMErica. Don't believe me? Selling 5,000 books is considered a dismal failure to an HTP. There are what, maybe two PAuthors who can claim that many sold COUNTING the books they bought themselves?

:Soapbox:

ETA: It appears I can't suppress my natural generosity. Per Uncle Jim, only one (1) PA book has sold 5,000+ copies. Egad!
 
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