The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Sara Rachael Hope

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Better Business Bureau To Check On PA

Can you file a complaint too? I'm hopeful it will make a difference...one person at a time!:idea:

BBB of Greater Maryland
1414 Key Highway, Suite 100
Baltimore,MD - 21230 5189
www.baltimore.bbb.org


Here's what I wrote to them today:
Date Received:6/8/2005 12:20:46 PM
Primary Complaint Classification: Selling Practices
Secondary Complaint Classification: Contract Disputes
Complaint:
Publish America led me to believe it is a publishing company, although to publish something requires that it be announced to the public.
In the letter they sent to the 100 addresses I was required to send them, it stated that I, the author, was announcing that my book was available for pre-order.
The company's practices are false and misleading, both in it's operations and services. You can read more about this by going to: www.absolutewrite.com and it's "The Neverending PublishAmerica" thread.
I cannot see why it would not be possible for me to get out of a contact with a non-viable 'publisher' (they reference themselves as being a 'publisher' in the contract I signed with them). They do not publish. They in fact only print and list.
They are a printing company that has taken advantage of over 13,000 writers in order to make money. So many people have NOT been informed, and so many that are, are looking to you for help (not just me!).
My book's barcode is not scannable in bookstores, I spent the $30 required for it's copyright with the Library of Congress, I bought 100 copies (which was not required) yet the company 'informed' me on how to successfully market them, which in fact, insures more money going to them and taking away more of my time (and money).
I've spent months on this...
I created a web site, and you will notice no reference to PA on it currently. I actually don't want anyone to buy the book now, unless it's direct from me so I can get rid of the one's I bought. It will still have 'cost' me greatly...which it has so many others, yet I am hopeful I can be of service (with your help) to so many writers, in the future.


Desired Settlement: Other (Requires Explaination)
Settlement Explanation:
Publish America is put out of business.
I get all monies they have received from the sale of my book and am released from my contract.
I receive damages resulting from the work I've needed to do (expending my time and effort), which can be accounted for as a fee/month since the book's inception or release date).
BBB announces all information it receives, regarding Publish America as a scam, to the general public.
 

Ed Williams

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Question and answer time with a PA author...

After my contract for the 7 years runs out, what happens?
You give thanks to the good lord above that you no longer have to deal with PA.
Is that when my book is "no longer in print?"
It means you can take the book that PA made impossible to sell to people other than your close friends and family and begin the process of placing it with a real commercial publisher.
If it's a good seller, will PA want to renew the contract?
I'd say if you got 50-75 people to buy it that PA would deem it a wonderful seller, and will keep offering you contracts. Your family members and friends might not be as excited about that prospect as you are, though.
If so, what numbers make a book worth that to PA?
Just told ya.
Am I even making sense?
If you leave PA after your seven year sentence, yes. If you're still honeymooning over there, try to get a body-sized literary prophylactic, you'll need it...
 

Sara Rachael Hope

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James D. Macdonald said:
Sara, I'm not certain but that the act of posting the titles of the books on their webpage doesn't statisfy the minimum definition of "published."

Remember, with PublishAmerica, the minimum definition of a word is the best that you're going to be able to get.
Dear James,
As it turned out, PA never posted my book in it's weekly 'new release' section. I ultimately wrote them and asked when it's official release date was and they promptly informed me of it, and, does this surprise you?, a month had already passed! I had been checking the site every week in the month of December.
And yes, I guess posting a title can be considered announcing although I also wonder about the use of the term "public". Announcing to the 'general public' would not necessarily include just PA and 'would-be' PA writers (i.e., the PA public board viewers and users), would it? And can 'the public' be just an individual and/or is being used as a 'coin in' term which in fact makes the general public a victim of supporting a delinquent, lying, cheating and stealing company getting away with trying to (as well as) Publish America?
 

Sara Rachael Hope

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Anyone Up For This Challenge?

:Clap: A wonderful opportunity!

DaveKuzminski said:
Fine with me. MS is even quicker to sue for misuse of their property than some other firms. I hope someone has already written to Jupiter about PA's misuse of their property.
 

mreddin

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James D. Macdonald said:
Over and over we hear from PA authors that it takes from two to four weeks to get their orders (and sometimes the orders never arrive at all).

I wonder if the peopel taking the phone calls at PA save 'em up and send in a batch ever couple of weeks? Would they get some kind of discount by sending in some minimum order?

(Also -- we know for a fact that not all PA books are printed by LSI. At least some are printed by that place up in New Jersey.)

Here is the scoop that might explain the delays that would not be PA's fault per se.

For single unit orders of a book...

Wholesaler Direct: 2 day turnaround

Publisher Direct: 2 day turnaround

Publisher Direct (Short Run): 5-10 business days

LSI offers several shipping options, UPSGround Saver: 1-6 days
UPS 2 day
UPS Overnight

Assuming PA picks the cheapest shipping, then yes it sounds quite possible that an author order of 50 books would take 2 to 3 weeks for delivery.

Here is a link to the LSI Operators Manual:
https://www.lightningsource.com/ops/files/pod/USPODOpsManual.pdf

Could PA also be using Fidar Doubleday for printing? I think their a tad cheaper than LSI.

Mike
 
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James D. Macdonald

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mreddin said:
Could PA also be using Fidar Doubleday for printing? I think their a tad cheaper than LSI.

People who've bought books from PA have received them in cartons with shipping labels pointing back to Digital Book Express in New Jersey.

http://146.145.172.217/publishers.htm
 

keltora

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James D. Macdonald said:
What's the usual time for a book to be PODed by Lightning? For some publisher other than PA?

(I'm certain that LSI categorizes their customers, and prioritizes their orders -- and that PA is pretty close to the bottom of their list.)

As the author of a Wildside Press reprint collection of short fiction...

I was back and forth with the editor making changes in the month of June. I think I turned in the last of those towards the end of June. That was followed by working on the cover, and I okayed the final version of that the first week or so of July.

I had someone tell me they had bought a copy of the book in mid July, and I had my author's copies in hand around that same time. The official release date was actually not until September/October (forget--I've slept since then), but the book was selling well before that.

So sounds like they have a pretty fast turnaround at old Lightning Press..
 
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Renee

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The quality of the covers still suck!

Dolan said:
I do believe that my book cover is the only thing that I can not complain about.

PA used my design, exactly the way I wanted it. It didn't help my book sell, so it didn't mean anything.

Well, I'd have to agree, especially in comparison to their other services. (LOL)

However, can't you complain about the quality of that cover? If yours is like the quality of mine, and I'm sure it is - the covers curl because they are so pathetically thin and low quality.

I remember folding the covers back when I was younger, on other books, and none of them did that..

I have to keep mine stacked in my bookshelf side-by-side tightly, to keep the whole thing from curling like yarn.
 

Sparhawk

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Renee said:
Well, I'd have to agree, especially in comparison to their other services. (LOL)

However, can't you complain about the quality of that cover? If yours is like the quality of mine, and I'm sure it is - the covers curl because they are so pathetically thin and low quality.

I remember folding the covers back when I was younger, on other books, and none of them did that..

I have to keep mine stacked in my bookshelf side-by-side tightly, to keep the whole thing from curling like yarn.

I have the same problem with my stack of self purchased PA books. It remnds me of old wallpaper. Also, once you open the book, the cover is bent and creased permanently and will never close flat again unless you put a ten pound barbell plate on teh book for an hour.
 

Sarashay

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Speaking of PA covers, who remembers this guy? How many covers have they milked out of that one picture?

Edit to add: Looks like all their images come via subscription to Ablestock, which is $899 a year for unlimited images. E-greetings can actually be used, provided a special license is obtained. Though it's a good question as to whether they actually bothered to get one.
 
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Renee

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Covers

Sparhawk said:
Also, once you open the book, the cover is bent and creased permanently and will never close flat again unless you put a ten pound barbell plate on the book for an hour.

Exactly! Heck I have thicker rolling papers than PA covers..:ROFL:

If you keep 'em stacked vertically and book ends on both ends (tightly) it helps some. Of course this on the never opened ones of mine that PA sent me by accident, for free.
 

Ed Williams

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Now, now....

...those book covers are designed to match Willem's pate, so y'all have a little respect. Very little, if none at all...

P.S. Remember, my hamdog buddy Chandler Goff is going to be on the Tonight Show tonight! (that sounds so odd, the Tonight Show tonight...)
 

PVish

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Here's an Idea

Over on Oprah Winfrey's site, one of the upcoming shows they need people for is the "Do You Want to Confront Someone?" show. Don't some of you PA authors want to confront the stooges? Now's your chance:
http://www.oprah.com/tows/intheworks/tows_works_main.jhtml

Also, they ask for show ideas. How about "How a Scam Publisher Broke My Heart, Ruined My Dreams, Destroyed My Self-Esteem, and Trashed My Book" or something?

All you have to do is fill in an online form. If enough disgruntled authors were to suggest similar ideas . . . well, you get the idea.
 

Renee

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Jerry! Jerry!

PVish said:
Over on Oprah Winfrey's site...

All you have to do is fill in an online form. If enough disgruntled authors were to suggest similar ideas . . . well, you get the idea.

I think the PA thing might fall in to the Jerry Springer category. :ROFL:
 

writerjenn

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Now Renee, which of the stooges do ya figure will rip off their shirts and prance around the audience, taunting the screaming masses of pee-ed off authors?

Jenn

Renee said:
I think the PA thing might fall in to the Jerry Springer category. :ROFL:
 

Renee

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writerjenn said:
Now Renee, which of the stooges do ya figure will rip off their shirts and prance around the audience, taunting the screaming masses of pee-ed off authors?

Jenn

Hehe..can you say Moeranda?
 

JennaGlatzer

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PVish! Great idea! I'm off to write my suggestion... let's all do it. We'll meet up in Chicago and let Oprah tackle the baddies. Fun!
 

Canada James

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2-3 weeks is normal ordering time.

James D. Macdonald said:
Over and over we hear from PA authors that it takes from two to four weeks to get their orders (and sometimes the orders never arrive at all).

Do keep in mind that 2-3 weeks is the standard time it takes from bookstore order to when the bookstore actually gets the book. And that's with publishers such as Scholastic, Harper Collins, etc...

Heck, UTP used to take 4-6 weeks.

It's the "never arrive at all scenario" that's the problem.

CJ
 

Diana Hignutt

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Yet Another Message to PA Employees

Hello again, my young friends (well, if you're a PA employee, you're not really my friend, but I'm trying to be nice here). It's time for another one of our little talks. Heck, your bosses require that you read this thread, so let's make it worth your while. Maybe, sooner or later, one or two of you will begin to realize that you are doing the work of the corrupt, of the evil.

Today, I have a question for you. How is it that you can go to work everyday, helping the stooges rip off writers, helping them cheat authors to the fullest possible extent, and then sleep at night? Do you disassociate yourselves from your activities? Do you say to yourselves, "we're only following orders?" Or maybe you just don't believe anything that anyone says on this thread? Maybe you think that none of us have anything better to do than harrass your employer? You work there. Surely, you can't truly believe that this is the way a real publishing company operates?

You've probably read most of this thread by now. I'm sure Willem and Co. have assured you that we are all disgruntled liars and ne'er-do-well's. You must ask yourselves, from time to time, why so many people would continue to post for so long about something if there wasn't some truth in it. You must have read the odd PA book (unless, of course, you work in the editing department) now and again. Clearly they are overpriced and substandard. Clearly you've seen the PA website. You must know how misleading that is. Some of you must monitor the PA messageboard. You know the stories. You know that you are told to remove posts that ask legitimate questions, and to ban people.

Don't you see what you're doing here? You are helping morally bankrupt con men take advantage of innocnet people. You are helping them steal dreams, to dash hopes and ruin potentially promising literary careers. Don't you see that? How can you not?

Sooner or later, PublishAmerica will be forced to face the music for the crimes it has perpetuated. Guess what? You will be held accountable in the eyes of the law too. While Willem slips quietly back to Europe, you will be left holding the bag. Don't you worry at least about yourself? If you don't end up in jail at the very least, your career in "publishing" will be over. No reputable company will hire you once things turn sour in Frederick. And they will. That day is closer and closer. The eyes of the law are now turned towards you. They are watching. Can you feel it?

Here's what you can do...quit. Go find a decent job that doesn't require that you take advantage of people. Your parents taught you better than to work for crooks, didn't they? Go find a decent, respectable job. If I were you, I'd get out while you can. Soon, you'll be left to face the music.

Well, I hope you enjoyed our little chat. Do yourselves a favor and think about what I'm saying. Read back over this thread to refresh in your mind that kinds of things that YOU ARE DOING. Do the right thing. Stop helping those crooks.

Thanks for your time.

diana
 

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Great post Diana!

The only problem is the mindset of the hardcore newbies. It is hard to make them see that they do not have an honest publisher. Nobody wants to admit they have been taken. Unfortunately, they will learn the hard way.

The ones on PA that defend the company to the end remind me of the old saying:

It does not matter how loud you talk to a deaf person; they will still not hear you.


BA
 

Christine N.

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PS.. Diana's book ROCKS! I don't think I've even read five chapters yet, but I am HOOKED.

PA, you are horrible to do what you did to this wonderful writer. Mean, horrible, evil people!

Behler better get Moonsword out soon... I'm gonna need another fix once I get through Empress. LOL
 

Ed Williams

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Miscellaneous hard core bashing....

(Well, not really, but it will satisfy those who want that to be the case)...let us sojourn over to that Great and Mighty Land. Gadzooks! Today we find some who think it's a good idea to promote your book by spamming other bulletin boards - to wit:

I went to ezboard.com and typed in their search field " child abuse" and found some boards that have a very active membership. I pm'd the board owners first so they wouldn't think I was a spammer. I told them briefly about myself and my book, and gave them the link to my website, and said I would leave it to their discretion if they wanted to share with their members. The responses have been VERY good! I know there are also freeboards and delphi forums, plus you can google your topic and find regular BBs like this one.
So it's cool because you can reach a lot of people who share your common interest and may want to buy your book, and it doesn't cost a thing.
Ahhhh, but the inevitable rub:

The only trouble is if they want you to keep posting on their board. It can get time consuming. Also, I'm keeping a notebook by my computer to keep track of who I've contacted and where I'm posting.
Not to be outdone, this PA author recounts the following:

I belong to over 20 message boards, 5 yahoo groups, and 4 MSN groups.

Instead of going in advertising my book I just joined and began posting with my books as my avatar and a banner in my signature that links back to my site.

What I try to do is post on the most popular topics so that people who are browsing them will see my post, my avatar, and my link and check it out.

It has worked tremendously well.
Right. And the Tooth Fairy and Long Tall Sally are going to do a benefit show together tonight at Madison Square Garden.

Re Diana, my dear friend has written a wonderful book, I thoroughly enjoyed it (and I don't typically read her genre, so that tells you how good her writing is) and predict many more in her future. As for PA employees, I would just concur with what's been said. Y'all really need to be thinking hard. If your employer wasn't doing something illegal or wrong, why would they even monitor bulletin boards at all? And having PA on your resume as an employee would be about like touting your time as the pianist at "Mama Bountiful's Cat House and Rib Emporium"....
 

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Ed: I am a mod at one message board, and a hostess at another. I can promise you that anyone trying to use my boards to plug their book would be banned faster than you can say "HAY PEEPLZ BUY MY BOOK".

We actually had a discussion about product placement fairly recently on one of my boards. The head honcho said that if people were selling things germane to the topic of the board, they were competing with her own business and as head honcho she was within her right to forbid that, but if they were selling things that had nothing to do with the topic of the board, they were posting off-topic which is against the rules, and spamming which was a ToS violation. I have to say that I can't fault her logic really.
 

Ed Williams

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Moe-randa's Greatest Hits!!!!

Actual quotes/statements from a publishing pioneer:

The two (Meiners and Clopper) "were book writers themselves, and got very discouraged. They thought they either had to pay to be published or never be published," recounts Miranda Prather, executive director at PublishAmerica.
"I've seen it grow from a really small house, where we didn't have hardly any writers, to where we have an incredible amount of writers submitting to us - we reject 80 percent of everything we receive," says Prather.
"It's a common myth that bookstore placement equals sales. Most buyers have an author they are looking for - it's a rare reader who's out there browsing the shelves for some new writer to read."
Prather denied any knowledge of Authors Market. "We have removed posts, yes, and then we've answered the author privately, as it should have been done in the first place," she explains. "We try to foster a positive environment for the authors, because they're gonna need that to persevere in this business."
"Many writers get involved in writing for all the wrong reasons - this is a business of dreams every bit as much as Hollywood or music," Prather warns, "and not everyone is going to be a Stephen King."
But it gets worse. Simultaneously Ms Prather announced the creation of an affiliation between PublishAmerica and **Online Publishing Bookstore - Tome Toaster. Quote "Authors that generate sales and create a track record showing that they are able to promote as well as write a book will be referred to PublishAmerica by Tome Toaster."
[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=-1]
In an interview, Publish America executive director Miranda Prather said that all of the author claims were unfounded. Prices, she said, were based "on what the market can bear." As for bookstores, she said, the company does have a substantial retail presence, but "we don't control the bookstores in the country." She declined to estimate how many of the 9,000 authors the house claims in fact have a trade presence.
[/size][/font]
As for marketing to the author, Prather said, there's "no pressure on our authors to buy their books. That would make us a vanity press." She declined to identify the company's CEO and, unlike a traditional house, said that the company does not edit for content, only for grammar and spelling.
[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=-1]
She also said that the house was open to renegotiating contracts, but did not automatically terminate a deal because an author was unhappy. "Nobody has come to us with a true breach of contract. [Claims] have run the gamut of individuals complaining about the prices, the editing or the marketing."
"Liar" would be too kind of a term to use here, "publishing whore" or "vanity vixen" would seem much more appropriate....[/size][/font]
 

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Larry Clopper's Greatest Hits!!!!

"The publishing industry will never be the same," Clopper said. "Because of PublishAmerica, there are tens of thousands of authors who can be published, where before their works could never see the light of day."
Clopper, though, said that PublishAmerica is a traditional company doing "a fantastic thing for the publishing industry" by giving so many new writers a chance.

"We are so proud and so happy," he said.
Clopper will not say what percentage of PublishAmerica's sales come from author buys, but considers it less than 50 percent.
Clopper said PublishAmerica is selective -- only 30 percent of submitted manuscripts make it to print.
"A lot of these groups are geared to a very elite group of authors who fancy themselves members of a very elite club," he said. "And they don't like it when 10,000 other authors join and their club is no longer so elite."
[size=-1]
"Our goal is to publish works of authors who had no other chance," Mr. Clopper said recently at his office within 111-113 E. Church St. "In that, we've succeeded phenomenally."
[/size][size=-1]
He and Mr. Meiners got together to start the company in 1999 because they shared a frustration in not being able to get their own books published with traditional houses years before. Mr. Meiners has been a part of the publishing world for the past 30 years, he said.
[/size][size=-1]
Mr. Clopper, on the other hand, said PublishAmerica's business model will prove to be the future of the publishing industry.
All that can be said is that Larry must be the most vivid example of combined "little man syndrome/failed author" that the world has ever seen...[/size]
 
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