Questions about opening and bullets

Well, at the most basic level you have revolvers and pistols. The most common type of pistol is semi-automatic, although there are other varieties. They all eject bullet casings, although a semi-automatic pistol will do it automatically and with a revolver you usually have to remove the spent casings manually.

I'm no use on the pistol questions, but regarding the opening: nice prose, good descriptions. The sandwich thoughts are quirky, they show a lot of character voice, and I think they're a nice way to introduce an off-beat character. It is VERY flippant, though, and slightly jaded. That works perfectly in this opening because we're not yet invested in anyone, but I'd be hoping we see a more empathetic side of this character later on.

However 'stretching her long frame back upright' reads as very clunky to me. It doesn't fit in a close internal monologue, because nobody would think that, and even if I read it as a more distance description my brain keeps tripping over it. I had to read it a few times to figure out you meant 'stretching out her long frame' and not 'stretching out her long frame back'. I was puzzling over what a 'frame back' even was.

If you're going to keep that description in, I'd simplify it down to just 'stretching back upright'. Not sure you even need it, though -- you never established that she was leaning in the car to begin with.

Here' s a link to an excellent new blog on firearms. Written by a police officer and writer for other writers. The latest post is about bullet casings as evidence at a crime scene. Previous post was about revolvers. Includes explanations, photos, videos, etc.

http://rightingcrimefiction.blogspot.com/

pdichellis: Here' s a link to an excellent new blog on firearms. Written by a police officer and writer for other writers. The latest post is about bullet casings as evidence at a crime scene. Previous post was about revolvers. Includes explanations, photos, videos, etc.

http://rightingcrimefiction.blogspot.com/

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Also, you could ask over at Story Research, if you haven't already.

Re: your excerpt: You wanted to know if starting your story right in the middle of a crime scene investigation is too weird. Short answer, I don't think so.

But, with all that talk of flies, having that photographer named Buzz seemed rather odd.

This isn't SYW, but I do want to say, relative to your beginning:

It was hot, so the flies were already beginning to collect.

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that starting with It was hot didn't do too much for me. You could change that up, even supply a place and time. Anything to anchor your readers to your mc at that place, in that moment. Something like (for example),

The sultry Louisiana morning heat brought out the blow flies.

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Wondering why no last name for your detective, and I agree with the 'long frame' bit.

If you know nothing about handguns, don'y try to get fancy, and don't get in over your head. Use a GLock 17. It's a 9mm, and one of teh most common semi-autos in the world. Go to YouTube, type in "Glock 17" and watch some videos.

Keep it simple. If you try to learn too much at this stage, if you get on technical websites and forums, you will make mistakes.

You really should go to a local shooting range and fire a handgun a few dozen times.

you can either have the killer, use an automatic which ejects a shell after each bullet fired. you pull the trigger, firing pin strikes the bullet, (Technically it strikes the center of the cartridge base) the bullet speeds down the barrel, the slide jacks back, the catridge is ejected, the slide snaps back into place as another round is placed in the chamber, rinse and repeat.

or your killer used a revolver, fired every round then reloaded and with out realizing it dropped a cartridge.

It's only weird if the rest of the manuscript doesn't follow suit. On describing the couch: Rather than "very expensive," I'd go with "lavish" or "extravagant."

Ejected shell casings are a good source for fingerprints and firing pin imprints. The best load for a close range murder is .22 long rifle rat shot in a revolver at close range. The rat shot is many small pellets like a shotgun, so there is no bullet to match rifling and the revolver doesn't leave a ejected shell casing.

Hi Nancy.

A note on the flies. You might want to do a little forensic research to confirm how quickly they come around. I don't know your timeframe for the killing, but the buggies manifest relatively quickly, regardless of weather.

jimmymc said:

Ejected shell casings are a good source for fingerprints and firing pin imprints. The best load for a close range murder is .22 long rifle rat shot in a revolver at close range. The rat shot is many small pellets like a shotgun, so there is no bullet to match rifling and the revolver doesn't leave a ejected shell casing.

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And the chances of killing someone with that load are one in a thousand. Even with the barrel pressed against a person, chances are good that death will not result. You get a really nasty would, but it's almost always superficial.

I've seen a 12ga shotgun loaded with those same pellets fail to kill a man. I've seen revolvers loaded with them fail to kill a rat at ten feet.

The right way to kill someone is with a cartridge and bullet designed to do the job. You can use a revolver to avoid leaving empty brass behind, But the right way to do it is to put a suppressor on your semi auto, and don't touch the cartridges with a bare hand when loading.

A barrel and a firing pin are both fairly cheap. Destroy both. Doing so takes less than a minute.

Jamesaritchie said:

If you know nothing about handguns, don'y try to get fancy, and don't get in over your head. Use a GLock 17. It's a 9mm, and one of teh most common semi-autos in the world. Go to YouTube, type in "Glock 17" and watch some videos.

Keep it simple. If you try to learn too much at this stage, if you get on technical websites and forums, you will make mistakes.

You really should go to a local shooting range and fire a handgun a few dozen times.

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Right on. Especially the part about actually getting some instruction and firing one. The instruction part is essential before firing one. In the US this is relatively easy in most states. Other places, not so much.

The only difference I'd have is to recommend a Glock 19 if the weapon is to be concealed. A Glock 17 is an excellent uniformed officer service weapon but it isn't easy to conceal it.

Glocks are relatively common because they are affordable, simple to operate, low maintenance, almost as reliable as gravity, and not at all fussy about ammunition. If it says 9mm Luger on the box, a Glock 17, 19, or 26 will shoot it just fine.

Fitch

You may want to check out a book called Kill or Get Killed. It discusses the differences among different guns (shot guns, rifles, hand guns and semiautomatics) as well as the types of bullets and their penetration capabilities.

The book also discusses hand-to-hand combat moves and counter moves as well.

Fitch said:

Right on. Especially the part about actually getting some instruction and firing one. The instruction part is essential before firing one. In the US this is relatively easy in most states. Other places, not so much.

The only difference I'd have is to recommend a Glock 19 if the weapon is to be concealed. A Glock 17 is an excellent uniformed officer service weapon but it isn't easy to conceal it.

Glocks are relatively common because they are affordable, simple to operate, low maintenance, almost as reliable as gravity, and not at all fussy about ammunition. If it says 9mm Luger on the box, a Glock 17, 19, or 26 will shoot it just fine.

Fitch

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I am not a huge Glock fan. Especially the first couple of generations. They're a good handgun, just far from my favorite. But I've found the Glock 17 to be a little easier for a brand new shooter to handle because of its size. Too many go to the range for teh first time, and take an extreme. Either they get something so small, like a tiny .380, that it's tough to hit anything, or they get something so big the recoil and muzzle blast scare them senseless.

Honestly, we usually start brand new shooters, meaning one who have never fired any weapon, out with a Ruger .22, and work up from there, but almost any new shooter can handle a 9mm out of the Glock 17 with only a little practice. It's a good size, and has the right weight and balance for a new shooter to handle.

Jamesaritchie said:

I am not a huge Glock fan. Especially the first couple of generations. They're a good handgun, just far from my favorite. But I've found the Glock 17 to be a little easier for a brand new shooter to handle because of its size. Too many go to the range for teh first time, and take an extreme. Either they get something so small, like a tiny .380, that it's tough to hit anything, or they get something so big the recoil and muzzle blast scare them senseless.

Honestly, we usually start brand new shooters, meaning one who have never fired any weapon, out with a Ruger .22, and work up from there, but almost any new shooter can handle a 9mm out of the Glock 17 with only a little practice. It's a good size, and has the right weight and balance for a new shooter to handle.

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We're on pretty much the same page.

I do the same. I use a BuckMark and an S&W 17-2. Don't have a Ruger. Then a 686 with .38Sp. Sometimes that's it. Sometimes I move up to the G19 Gen 3 (I don't own a 17 - my 19 just works. Ugly but it always works.) sometimes I don't - it depends on the student.

I've had very good luck with women with small hands and the SIG P238 - much better than the same people with a small .38 because the trigger's better. It's very soft shooting, decent trigger, excellent sights and the easiest slide to rack for clearing malfunctions I've ever experienced. My wife (72 with weak hands) loves her P238. It's been flawless through about 1,500 rounds. It's also very concealable.

The LCP is like high fiving a hammer by comparison and has a terrible trigger. But I have one of those too - it's the gun that one can always hide.

Fitch

Fitch said:

We're on pretty much the same page.

I do the same. I use a BuckMark and an S&W 17-2. Don't have a Ruger. Then a 686 with .38Sp. Sometimes that's it. Sometimes I move up to the G19 Gen 3 (I don't own a 17 - my 19 just works. Ugly but it always works.) sometimes I don't - it depends on the student.

I've had very good luck with women with small hands and the SIG P238 - much better than the same people with a small .38 because the trigger's better. It's very soft shooting, decent trigger, excellent sights and the easiest slide to rack for clearing malfunctions I've ever experienced. My wife (72 with weak hands) loves her P238. It's been flawless through about 1,500 rounds. It's also very concealable.

The LCP is like high fiving a hammer by comparison and has a terrible trigger. But I have one of those too - it's the gun that one can always hide.

Fitch

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You will never, ever catch me complaining about a Sig P238, or most otehr Sigs, for that matter, though some people can't afford a Sig.

The 686 is one of my favorite revolvers. The only thing I like better are the Colt snake revolvers, and they don't make those now.

I've had a surprising number of women the last two years who all wanted revolvers. My wife even decided she wanted one after firing a S&W 649. It's a .357 but we load it with plus P .38 Special for defense. More than good enough.

Don't know why, but she loves firing my 686 with hot .357 rounds more than she likes a 9mm. The 686 has a six inch barrel, though, and there's no way she could carry it. She doesn't have the same problem with the 649.

I'm a 1911 fan, though not so much the classic Colt. The Para double stack 1911 is my choice. It's so reliable it's unbelievable. I've seen one come out of the box, and fire a thousand rounds as fast as the shooter could pull the trigger, and not a jam. The thing got so hot you couldn't touch the trigger without a glove on, but it kept right on firing.

I have a friend who has two, and he's using one as a test model. He's fired it well over 2,500 time over a six month periods without cleaning it, and it's still going. He's had three or four bad primers, but not one jam yet. He's going to keep shooting it until he gets two jams, thinking one jam can be caused by anything. I'm curious to see when this happens because this is my carry gun of choice right now. .

Funny you should mention a Buckmark. My middle son traded a Buckmark for a Ruger Mark III. He likes the Mark III, but says he made a poor trade, and he's looking for another Buckmark.

Jamesaritchie said:

You will never, ever catch me complaining about a Sig P238, or most otehr Sigs, for that matter, though some people can't afford a Sig.

The 686 is one of my favorite revolvers. The only thing I like better are the Colt snake revolvers, and they don't make those now.

I've had a surprising number of women the last two years who all wanted revolvers. My wife even decided she wanted one after firing a S&W 649. It's a .357 but we load it with plus P .38 Special for defense. More than good enough.

Don't know why, but she loves firing my 686 with hot .357 rounds more than she likes a 9mm. The 686 has a six inch barrel, though, and there's no way she could carry it. She doesn't have the same problem with the 649.

I'm a 1911 fan, though not so much the classic Colt. The Para double stack 1911 is my choice. It's so reliable it's unbelievable. I've seen one come out of the box, and fire a thousand rounds as fast as the shooter could pull the trigger, and not a jam. The thing got so hot you couldn't touch the trigger without a glove on, but it kept right on firing.

I have a friend who has two, and he's using one as a test model. He's fired it well over 2,500 time over a six month periods without cleaning it, and it's still going. He's had three or four bad primers, but not one jam yet. He's going to keep shooting it until he gets two jams, thinking one jam can be caused by anything. I'm curious to see when this happens because this is my carry gun of choice right now. .

Funny you should mention a Buckmark. My middle son traded a Buckmark for a Ruger Mark III. He likes the Mark III, but says he made a poor trade, and he's looking for another Buckmark.

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My buddy in MN has a 9mm Para Carry, DAO 9mm. I liked it a lot. I put about 50 rounds through it when he brought it here. It was hard to stop shooting it. I also shot a WartHog .45 a few years ago. The WartHog was a genuine jam-o-matic. Hopefully they've fixed it.

My wife can't perform the double action trigger pull on most double action revolvers. She shoots her 686 single action.

My sister (70) insisted on a revolver. I found her a beautiful barely used Colt Detective's Special from the sixties. Thirty eight special, six shot cylinder, perfect alignment, wonderful trigger pull and bluing you could get lost in. It's not +P rated but I didn't consider that a problem. My wife can pull that trigger but likes the smaller, lighter, 238 better.

My one 1911 is a SIG C3. It's been flawless. It has an alloy frame with out a ramped barrel so I'm careful what I shoot in it - pretty much only 185 and 230 Gold Dot reloads, 500 of them to prove reliability, factory 230GD Short Barrel for carry, Berry's 230 plated round nose for practice. It's been flawless from out of the box. I keep it clean to avoid carbon abrasion on the ramp. I keep all my guns clean. The one I carry is pristinely clean for lots of reasons.

The final (subject to change with no notice) two guns on my handgun list are a P938 and a Springfield Range Officer Compact.

My wife's 686 has a 6" barrel and CT grips. I love shooting it with full house magnum loads. I shot an IDPA classification match with it once just for fun. Gave a whole new meaning to the phrase, "What a blast."

Fitch

Fitch said:

My one 1911 is a SIG C3. It's been flawless.

The final (subject to change with no notice) two guns on my handgun list are a P938 and a Springfield Range Officer Compact.



Fitch

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I don't own a Sig 1911, but I've shot one several times, and loved it. I've been fondling a Range Officer for a couple of years now. All that's stopped me from buy it is that I made an impulse buy a couple of etyars ago, and picked up an Iver Johnson 1911 for about $250 under MSRP. It's Cerakoted what looks to be a desert tan, and after adding Hogue grips, it's impressive looking.

We had a bunch of jams show up after firing fifty rounds, looked a little closer and found that someone had gone spray happy, and not only was the feed ramp coated, but so was the chamber. It has ridiculously tight tolerances, tighter than the Colt Gold Cup, so we thought having the chamber coated might be teh problem.

We polished the feed ramp and chamber, put in an eighteen pound spring, and tried again. I've now fired 540 rounds through it without a cleaning, and it's going strong. It's remarkably accurate, too, and fires inch and a half groups at twenty-five yards from a Ransom rest. I've never had a 1911 that would do this.

But it's hard to justify a Range Officer, since I own this one. But we have a local gun shop that has what the owner calls "absolute layaway. No money down, and as long as you pay a dollar per week, you can take the rest of your life to pay off a gun. Never heard of any other gun shop anywhere coming close to this, so, who knows, I may slap the Range Officer in layaway.

Jamesaritchie said:

I don't own a Sig 1911, but I've shot one several times, and loved it. I've been fondling a Range Officer for a couple of years now. All that's stopped me from buy it is that I made an impulse buy a couple of etyars ago, and picked up an Iver Johnson 1911 for about $250 under MSRP. It's Cerakoted what looks to be a desert tan, and after adding Hogue grips, it's impressive looking.

We had a bunch of jams show up after firing fifty rounds, looked a little closer and found that someone had gone spray happy, and not only was the feed ramp coated, but so was the chamber. It has ridiculously tight tolerances, tighter than the Colt Gold Cup, so we thought having the chamber coated might be teh problem.

We polished the feed ramp and chamber, put in an eighteen pound spring, and tried again. I've now fired 540 rounds through it without a cleaning, and it's going strong. It's remarkably accurate, too, and fires inch and a half groups at twenty-five yards from a Ransom rest. I've never had a 1911 that would do this.

But it's hard to justify a Range Officer, since I own this one. But we have a local gun shop that has what the owner calls "absolute layaway. No money down, and as long as you pay a dollar per week, you can take the rest of your life to pay off a gun. Never heard of any other gun shop anywhere coming close to this, so, who knows, I may slap the Range Officer in layaway.

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That's an amazing gun shop.

I had an RO compact in my hands a month ago at the local gun show. I admit it had my pulse rate up. Nice fit, solid lockup (thumb couldn't move the breech), very nice trigger. But I'd licked the spoon pretty hard with a Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro lens and a new laptop, and it wasn't the P938 SAS that's ahead of it on the list, so I put it back with great reluctance.

Fitch

Fitch said:

That's an amazing gun shop.

I had an RO compact in my hands a month ago at the local gun show. I admit it had my pulse rate up. Nice fit, solid lockup (thumb couldn't move the breech), very nice trigger. But I'd licked the spoon pretty hard with a Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro lens and a new laptop, and it wasn't the P938 SAS that's ahead of it on the list, so I put it back with great reluctance.

Fitch

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That gun shop has people come in from all over the state. Funny thing is, almost no one ever takes advantage of the owner and pays off the gun really slowly. They all pay it off as fast as they can, but without the pressure of having to do so in one or two months, and with from ten to twenty-five percent down, like other gun shops in the area want. He's making a killing, and putting serious pressure on bigger gun shops in the area. They hate him, but they're all stretching out their own layaway plans. Nowhere near the extent of his, but better than before.

What the other gun shops really hate is that he's making three to four times the money they are.

If we're being completely honest here, the main reason I haven't bought a Range Officer, and I really hope my wife never reads this, is because I have a Colt Gold Cup on layaway at that little gun shop. It's a custom model the gun shop owner had Colt make, and he has taste. It's the most beautiful 1911 I've ever seen by far, and has every custom part made.

It's also $1,500, which is actually exactly what he paid Colt for it. Out of curiosity, I called Colt and asked what they would charge me for a Gold Cup with the same custom features, and the price they quoted was $2,295, plus tax.

He also posts a gun on his website every month or two, and the first person who comes through the door and tells him what that gun is gets it for free. He's evil, and this is how he sucks you into Gun Buyer's Hell.

My wife is gonna kill me, unless, well, my sons and I have this theory. If we can actually own a gun for two months before our wives find out about it, it doesn't count. If they ask, "Where did you get that?" we say, "What, this old thing? I can't believe you haven't seen it. I've had it for months."

Sometimes it even works.

Jamesaritchie said:

That gun shop has people come in from all over the state. Funny thing is, almost no one ever takes advantage of the owner and pays off the gun really slowly. They all pay it off as fast as they can, but without the pressure of having to do so in one or two months, and with from ten to twenty-five percent down, like other gun shops in the area want. He's making a killing, and putting serious pressure on bigger gun shops in the area. They hate him, but they're all stretching out their own layaway plans. Nowhere near the extent of his, but better than before.

What the other gun shops really hate is that he's making three to four times the money they are.

If we're being completely honest here, the main reason I haven't bought a Range Officer, and I really hope my wife never reads this, is because I have a Colt Gold Cup on layaway at that little gun shop. It's a custom model the gun shop owner had Colt make, and he has taste. It's the most beautiful 1911 I've ever seen by far, and has every custom part made.

It's also $1,500, which is actually exactly what he paid Colt for it. Out of curiosity, I called Colt and asked what they would charge me for a Gold Cup with the same custom features, and the price they quoted was $2,295, plus tax.

He also posts a gun on his website every month or two, and the first person who comes through the door and tells him what that gun is gets it for free. He's evil, and this is how he sucks you into Gun Buyer's Hell.

My wife is gonna kill me, unless, well, my sons and I have this theory. If we can actually own a gun for two months before our wives find out about it, it doesn't count. If they ask, "Where did you get that?" we say, "What, this old thing? I can't believe you haven't seen it. I've had it for months."

Sometimes it even works.

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You're going to have fun with that Gold Cup. I've shot one. I don't know it's provenance other than it was a Colt, but it was a joy to shoot. I hope you shoot it and don't stick it away in the safe. A pistol like that needs to be enjoyed, cleaned and enjoyed again.

My bride of 46 years knows every gun I have. Rifle, handgun, or shotgun. She has the combination to the safe; she keeps her guns in there too. Neither of us can wait to show the other a new gun. She's been known to come home with some of her own. My XDs .45 was a Christmas present from her two years ago.

Fitch

Fitch said:

You're going to have fun with that Gold Cup. I've shot one. I don't know it's provenance other than it was a Colt, but it was a joy to shoot. I hope you shoot it and don't stick it away in the safe. A pistol like that needs to be enjoyed, cleaned and enjoyed again.

My bride of 46 years knows every gun I have. Rifle, handgun, or shotgun. She has the combination to the safe; she keeps her guns in there too. Neither of us can wait to show the other a new gun. She's been known to come home with some of her own. My XDs .45 was a Christmas present from her two years ago.

Fitch

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Believe me, I'll shoot it. My first handgun was a Colt Gold Cup, but I sold it many years ago when we were having some trouble paying bills. I always have regretted selling it.

My middle son is a gunsmith, and tests a lot of guns. I test some for him, which is why a few of mine get shot and shot and shot without being cleaned. I do watch for any sign of corrosion, make a note, and start scrubbing away. Unless it's a pure test gun that we want to wear out. Sometimes we have to treat one like it belongs to an average gun owner who shoots, sticks it in a drawer, shoots again six months later, and never bother to strip and clean.

We never treat our keepers this way, and the Gold Cup is going to be a pure keeper.

The Iver Johnson I have is a test gun. I didn't mean it to be when I bought it, but I read several complaints from owners, talked to the company, and went from there. The particular model I have had all that extra spray coating, as I mentioned, but it also had an extended safety that was nice, but that also extended too far back toward the hand, and had an edge so sharp it scratched us when we shot it. After about a dozen shots, that scratch turned into a full-blown cut.

The grips were walnut, and looked great, but were unusually slick. Anyway, we fixed the safety, added the Hogue grips, polished the feed ramp and chamber, put in a heavier spring, and added dots to the standard Colt sights.

We then showed the gun to a lot of potential buyers at a couple of gun shops, and then reported the results to the company, along with cost analysis. Since the company gets everything at wholesale prices, and uses manual labor in the Philippines, the total extra cost for everything we did should be under twenty dollars.

We're hoping they make all the suggested changes. From our potential customer results, they could easily add two hundred dollars to the MSRP.

Anyway, guns that are strictly mine, not intended for testing, are never safe guns, but they get treated like babies where care and cleaning are concerned.

Testing is a lot of fun, though, and also helps my gunsmith son do his job better.

There's just too darned many guns out there, and too darned little money in my bank account. It's probably a good thing I haven't hit the lottery. If I did, the first thing I'd probably do would be go to the largest gun shop around, walk in, wave my hand at everything, and say, "I'll take it all."