After you finish will you use an editor?

Jamesaritchie said:

If you can't edit, you can't write well, either. Editors are good things, but a good editor never rewrites anything, ever. A real editor's job is simply to help make teh book better by suggesting this change or that change, which the writer has to implement.

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Stop making me agree with you!


Betas/friends etc are not the same as an in house editor is not the same as an editor you hire


Betas/friends will point out plot holes/continuity problems/clunky phrases. Editors you pay will do the same on a more professional level (and are essential if you are self publishing -- though anyone charging as little as $100....I would winder how good they are tbh)

An in-house editor is not just thinking about your book -- they are thinking about far more than that -- how this book will fit in with what the imprint wants, for example. Their copy editor will have house style to implement (and it may grate -- apparently using ; and : in dialogue has now become a thing with my publishers and I just can't....fingers...chalkboard....)

"Editing" covers a HELL of a broad reach. If you hire one, and there are pros and cons if you are doing so before subbing to agents/editors, you need to be specific in what you want/need.

Ah...HECK YA! I'm terrible !

Used Chase Edits....He was great!!!!!!!


g.g.

When I finish, I'm using a corkscrew.

mccardey said:

When I finish, I'm using a corkscrew.

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To open a bottle of wine?

Aggy B. said:

To open a bottle of wine?

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Yes, but only because it would be utterly useless at editing. I'll need an editor for that.

No. I think it's important to learn how to edit yourself, and to develop a critical eye when addressing your own work.

ash.y said:

Ideally, my future publisher's editors will work on the manuscript.

In the meantime, I'm lucky to have my good friend and fellow editor act as my critique partner, and I'll be getting beta readers too.

I'd like to reiterate the differences in editing depending on who is helping you and the level of work being performed. There are editors, critique partners, and beta readers; there is developmental editing, line editing, proofreading, and reader reports. (<--That is far from an exhaustive list!) There are combinations and variations of these that cover a broad spectrum of editorial depth, skill level, and savvy.

Most writers who are seeking traditional publishing get the best value out of CPs and beta readers, who usually provide something more along the lines of critique and reader response than an edit. A full professional edit would presumably happen (and happen most effectively) with the in-house editors of a publisher.

Self-published authors benefit most from freelance editors. But ALL authors should work to hone their self-editing skills. It's virtually impossible to look at your own work with a clear critical eye, but it's critically important to put your very best effort into personal revisions, because it's a reflection of how strong your craft is.

Yes to self-editing, critique, and professional editing!

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@ash.y-Exactly. All of it.
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My point earlier was simply that I would not advocate sending anything out on submission without getting other eyes on it first, full stop. The definitions of or distinctions between different types of eyes on it is a separate topic. Some people seemed to be answering as if it is an either/or, like that you won't learn to self-edit if you also have some other type of assistance. But they're all good and necessary.

rockondon said:

I initially intended to self publish my book and had full intentions of hiring an editor.

My plans changed and now I'm planning on going through and agent and publisher if I can. The publisher will have its own editor and I'll work with him/her. I've edited it numerous times myself, read it aloud to my fiancé, and have beta readers going over it before an agent sees it.

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Yup. And good luck!

I think it's necessary to hire a professional editor prior to publishing your work. You may review it and self-edit for multiple times but professional eye is needed before you show your book to the world.

Again, to clear any confusion for newbies: pro editing before self-publishing - oh God, yes, please. Paid editing before querying a commercial publisher - largely a waste of your time and money. Learning to edit as much as possible on your own - priceless.

Jamesaritchie said:

If you can't edit, you can't write well, either.

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Yep. Becoming a good writer is largely the process of becoming a good editor -- at least for your own stuff.

Add me to the voice saying 'Editing is an important part of the craft, and an essential skill if one wants to be a professional.'

I'd agree that good writing and editing skills go hand in hand. Some of the most popular writers (not the best, but the most popular) will have the services of the best editors around--and some do it largely on their own, I imagine--but the rest of us aren't so lucky.

So...learn how to edit, be cold and calculating, see what works and what doesn't, and when you think you've done the best job you can do, submit the work and see what happens. If your work is accepted, and if you have a top-notch editor who looks at the big picture (as someone previously mentioned) then you stand a good chance of turning out a really fine novel or novella or whatever.

'Be cold and calculating' - yes.

Self-editing is a hard skill to learn on your own. I thought I knew what I was doing, then ran up against my more-skilled beta readers, my agent, two editors who worked on my debut mms, and a bunch of personalized rejections for other pieces. Ouch. But I picked up hints and tips from all of them.

Largely as an exercise, I recently hacked apart a 49K fantasy mms to make it fit the 25K novella cutoff for the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction. That meant serious editing on several levels, to remove extra subplots and tighten sentences, while making what was left more vivid and readable. Took me a week and a half during evenings. It hurt - because this was a wallowing WIP I'd been playing with for 15 years. But with that amount of work and time, I had to ditch sentiment first.

Of course, it didn't fly with the F&SF editor. Still, it was good enough that he held it through the first round, then gave me a detailed personal rejection with lots of solid tips that I could use to improve the larger version. (Which was what I was really hoping for.)

Filigree said:

Paid editing before querying a commercial publisher - largely a waste of your time and money.

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I disagree with this assertion and I'm going to buck the trend on this topic.

I have paid for professional editing before and it was, without a doubt, an excellent use of my time and money. For the work in question I finished the book then did multiple rounds of editing myself. I had my beta readers take a look. These include college and university graduates, published authors, and other trusted individuals. I took their suggestions and made the modifications I thought would help. Even after these I knew the work was still not as good as it could be. I reread it multiple times, even after long breaks, and still couldn't find what was wrong.

Deciding that a professional, freelance editor was a good option I found one through a trusted contact (one that used to work for a publisher as an editor) and got the work done. What they came back with was illuminating. They did a line edit which meant highlighting all the small things that had been missed. The substantive edit showed me exactly where I was going wrong and why the work wasn't as good as it could be. Everything they said was right on the money, even after all the editing had been completed. They also came up with options to enhance the work. Their advice helped me see the possibilities in what could be done, not only what was wrong.

The contrast between before hiring a freelance editor and after is remarkable. The latter has a level of polishing and professionalism the former did not.

For me, the cost of the editing was an investment in myself and my work. By having someone who does this professionally look at what I was doing I was able to improve my writing and editing skills greatly. Now I know what to look for in my writing, where I have problems, and how to correct them. I also learned what publishers and agents look for in a piece of work, something I didn't know before.

I would recommend, after you've done substantial editing and had the work read, and if you have the money to invest in yourself, to go for it.

You don't have to tell an agent or publisher you've already had your work edited. If they want to get it done again, so be it.

That's a great point: learning from paid editing. Sometimes we need that new perspective, and a great editor might teach us amazing things.

The sad caveat is that writers have to be at the stage of their writing development where they *can* learn. Writers who pay for editing too soon in the learning process may not be able to get the most out of a grueling paid edit. Or they may hire a cheaper and possibly substandard editor, and not learn proper skills.

I shouldn't say 'Paid editing is a waste of time for commercial submissions.' It's really a matter of timing, and what the author can gain long-term from the editing experience.

Even though I'm an editor as well as a writer, I always have editors go over my manuscript. While I try to make my manuscripts as "clean" as possible, it's impossible to edit your own work.

Yeah... for me, I think that one's going to be a given, no matter how good I think I get...

Remembers last time this came up and shudders.

Yep, I use editors even though I'm a pretty good self editor and have good betas. They're an expert eye who raise the story to a new level - although it's up to me what I implement, how and why. In short, they don't replace my editing skills but enhance them by making me work.

I also have my publisher's editor and copyeditor and words can't say how good they are. It's still largely up to me to deliver on their suggestions, though.

What I wouldn't recommend is using someone to rewrite your work and prepare it for publication for you. You need to learn what to do with an edit, how to implement it and keep your voice and book. Because if you get published you'll be doing that for real

Filigree said:

That's a great point: learning from paid editing. Sometimes we need that new perspective, and a great editor might teach us amazing things.

The sad caveat is

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The sad caveat is you have to find -- and afford -- the right editor


And also, that you do not usually need it.

It may be helpful, but,,,

I would, if they were not so damn pricey. Besides, I think it is important to learn to edit your work, to improve as a writer.

After most of us writers revise (many call the process "editing," but it's not the true real deal) to the best of our abilities, our manuscripts are most likely ready for an editor.

As many said, if a publisher is interested in our manuscripts, an editor may be provided by the publisher. For instance, I edit short stories for a publisher of annual anthologies.

If we intend to self-publish, many writers hire independent editors. I work for several stand-alone and series novelists. We either work together chapter-by-chapter, or a client sets a deadline for the entire manuscript to be edited, and I hustle to meet it.

However, to hire or not to hire is always the self-publisher's choice.

I'll jump in. I hired an editor (or she agreed to take me on--it's a POV thing). I've decided to self-publish, and really, how can I know what I don't know? Hans and Greta had seven betas, and a whole lot of revision by me, but how can I possibly know if that's enough? My only other editorial experience was with the three acceptances I've had thus far for my shorts, and it wasn't much in the way of changes. (One italicized word.) It doesn't seem like enough to be going on with.

It was really hard making that decision, because I've got eight novels, and seriously, I've never spent as much as I'm going to spend on editing on a car.

But I really want my books to be the best they possibly can before I publish them. I may grow as a writer to the point that I no longer need anything but really good beta trades in the future. But skimping at the beginning is probably the worst possible time.

It's a pity, really, because that's when you have no income to offset it. But every business we've started has gone this way--you pump money in to get the rewards later. You hope. (Don't get me started on fishing boats.) So at least it's familiar territory.

And I do self-edit. I've lost count of the passes I've made on Hans and Greta. I've grown a lot as a writer doing it. But I can't intelligently assess my own ignorance.

And I love this book. So I hired an editor.