Who and what can I quote?

Hunter S Johnson said:

I just learned that I can't quote contemporary song lyrics, which sucks, because I like using lyrics to set a mood or to tie into a character's state of mind. I coulda sworn that I read more than one novel with this technique; I seemed to remember reading something that used the Stone's Sympathy For The Devil, but I couldn't find it on Google.

So what can I quote, and who can I quote? I have a stanza of an ee cummings poem in my WIP, and it is kind of pivotal to a scene with my heroine... cutting it kills the whole scene. Does that need to go?

Can I use the title of a song to set a mood? For example, if the main couple of your story walk into a smoky bar and the band is playing "Welcome To The Jungle", that paints a different mental picture than "The Boy From Impenema"...

Is there a primer on this somewhere?

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You may well have read novels that quote lyrics - they have permission to do so and likely paid for the privilege.

You can only use things, without obtaining permissions or paying, that are in the public domain.

Saying a song is playing is likely ok. There are plenty of threads on this - the google search is your friend.

I mention song titles in some of my books, and I even have a few books whose titles are also song titles.

Titles cannot be copyrighted, if I understand the law correctly. The fact that I have a novella called Remind Me, and Brad Paisley has a song called "Remind Me," is not a problem, even though I am on record as stating that my novella was *inspired* by that song. Not based on, and definitely not using any lyrics, but inspired by.

The *lyrics* of a song, however, can be and are copyrighted. If you use a snippet, as someone else said, you *might* be okay. You're better off if it's a fairly common phrase than if it's something readily identifiable as part of a song. I have a formerly-contracted, now withdrawn novel called With Every Touch. I chose that title because of a line in a Pink song that uses that phrase, which at the time was the favorite song of a friend of mine who gave me the plot bunny for the novel. But With Every Touch is a vague enough phrase that even people who are familiar with the song wouldn't necessarily relate the two, and I'm not violating anything as far as I know because "with every touch" could mean--and be from--a lot of things.

But also what Maryn said. Set the mood with description, emotion, characters' actions and reactions, etc. If the scene has to include a song being played (for example, it's the characters' first time having sex, and one of them thinks it's funny to play Bad Company's "Feel Like Making Love" because he's a wiseass who likes to laugh and have a good time in bed--and that's mine, don't use it, lol), just name the song and leave it at that. Don't quote lyrics. But don't count on the song *alone* to cue readers to the mood. That's your job as the writer. No shortcuts.

Don't assume you can't get permission, or that it'll cost too much.

In The Sad Girl, I wanted to quote 2 different songs: Jimmy Buffett's "Enduring Echoes (Havana, 1921)" and Meat Loaf's "Out of the Frying Pan (And Into the Fire.)"

In the Buffett song, I wanted to quote most of the chorus. For Meat Loaf, I wanted to use about 18 words.

You'll have to research who actually owns the lyrics. For my example, it's not Meat Loaf, it's Jim Steinman. Then you have to find out who reps them AFA copyright. It'll be a law firm, on one of the coasts. Contact them and tell them what you want. They'll ask you for context of the usage. I made a PDF of the relevant passages. It ended up costing me $100 for the Steinman stuff. Buffett's people couldn't stay in touch with me, and I finally had to rewrite that scene.

This process won't be quick, and it will be frustrating. But it can be accomplished. Write it the way you want to write it, but be prepared to have to edit.

Good luck.

Oh, and cummings died in 1962, so I think most of his stuff is in the public domain.

There is an aspect of copyright law called "Fair Usage". An excerpt from that is below (fairly used). see http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

"The distinction between what is fair use and what is infringement in a particular case will not always be clear or easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.

The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”

Copyright protects the particular way authors have expressed themselves. It does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in a work.

The safest course is to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission."

Be sure to get your law degree before publishing ANYTHING!

Maryn said:

Uh, no. Copyright extends to 70 years after the death, if I'm not mistaken. That's 2032. When during cummings' life the quoted material was written is not a factor.

Maryn, not a lawyer

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Eep. Good point. That's why I write instead of math.

My understanding is that song lyrics and poems are copyrighted, while lines cannot be. Certain phrases could theoretically be trademarked, but not copyrighted. Unless you're using so much that it counts as plagiarism, all the examples you threw out there would theoretically be fine.

Hunter S Johnson said:

Forgive me for resurrecting this thread, but the more I research, the more confused I am becoming. The lines from Cummings I wish to use are the last two stanzas of somewhere I have never travelled... it is a poem that has some personal meaning for me. But as I look online, you can find page after page posting the whole work. Are all these people in copyright violation?

I have been tossing in little pop culture references into my novel to add some atmosphere, and first I learn that song lyrics are out... now Cummings is verboten... What else?

"You're gonna need a bigger boat"?

"Where's the beef"?

"There's an app for that"?

"To the moon, Alice"?

"I'll be back"?

"Scooby Dooby Doo, where are you"?

Really? Do I have to be the first person ever to say something? Is there a primer on this somewhere?

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It depends on where and why and how they're posting it. You'd be posting it in a book for sale. That'd be a copyright violation.

If someone has it in an academic paper, or a discussion of poetry or sixteen other things, they're probably not in violation.

Just... don't use other ppls words?

I think quoting a line from a movie is covered by fair use, because IIRC there is something in their about the percentage you are allowed to use before you need permission. So one line is less than 1% of the whole. The problem with poems and songs is that they are much shorter and so one line represents a larger portion of the overall work.

Also, the time period that copyright extends to varies by country so if you aren't in the US, you might be able to use the Cummings poem. I am pretty sure that Canada is still life+50 years, which would mean the copyright here ended in 2012.

victoriakmartin said:

I think quoting a line from a movie is covered by fair use, because IIRC there is something in their about the percentage you are allowed to use before you need permission. So one line is less than 1% of the whole. The problem with poems and songs is that they are much shorter and so one line represents a larger portion of the overall work.

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I don't know Canadian copyright law, but I suspect this is just as big a myth in Canada as it is in the US, where the Copyright Office clearly states

There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission.

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