Daughter held captive by father for 24 years

Status
Not open for further replies.

choppersmom

---
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
1,379
Reaction score
1,502
Good Lord.

Let's all take a moment, shall we, and be thankful that we're all free to breathe the fresh air, and not going through what this poor, poor woman has endured? My heart just breaks for her and those children.
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
I don't know what's worse ... the story over in the TIO board about the sodomizing of a newborn baby boy, or this.

Actually ... I think THIS is worse. This one went on for decades, she was utterly helpless, she was fully aware of how wrong and evil it was, and --

[can't type anymore]
 

scfirenice

professional multitasker
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 18, 2005
Messages
3,937
Reaction score
388
Location
Between a rock and a hard place.
What a mess, what do you do with the older children who are now 18 and 19 with no education at all. Nothing. This is one of those child rape cases that should absolutely be eligable for the death penalty. This man ruined the lives of 9 people. Ugh. I wonder what the breakdown of the children's gender is and if he raped his grandchildren as well.
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
I think this might fall under a hyper-active case of control freak. The controlling husband/father. Total posession of every aspect of his daughter's life. He "owned" her.

And yes--if he was sexually abusing the daughter from the age of 11 onward, I'm sure he was also abusing the female grandchildren. He "owned" them as well.
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
What a mess, what do you do with the older children who are now 18 and 19 with no education at all. Nothing. This is one of those child rape cases that should absolutely be eligable for the death penalty. This man ruined the lives of 9 people. Ugh. I wonder what the breakdown of the children's gender is and if he raped his grandchildren as well.

Imagine what they are going to do this guy in prison. He'll be BEGGING for that needle!
 

Claudia Gray

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
2,918
Reaction score
604
You don' think the father was mentally ill?

He's obviously not right in the head, but I doubt he was criminally insane if he was otherwise functioning/holding down a job/concealing the crime/etc. for 24 years.

What "insane" means in a legal sense varies from state to state, but if you can tell right from wrong (and apparently he could, as he told elaborate lies and used concealment to protect himself) and control your impulses (ditto), chances are an insanity defense won't wash.
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
You don' think the father was mentally ill?


Yes I do. And he deserves to die.

"A society is judged by how it treats its weakest members."

Well ... I choose to judge HIM by the same criteria.

I completely disagree with the argument that ALL instances of capital punishment are wrong. Instead, I feel that choosing NOT to issue a sentence of death as the punishment for certain crimes is merely mercy, not an obligation. Mercy is NOT mandatory for civilized people, it is a choice.

In this instance, I would choose to withhold that mercy and bring the hammer down hard.
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
He's obviously not right in the head, but I doubt he was criminally insane if he was otherwise functioning/holding down a job/concealing the crime/etc. for 24 years.

What "insane" means in a legal sense varies from state to state, but if you can tell right from wrong (and apparently he could, as he told elaborate lies and used concealment to protect himself) and control your impulses (ditto), chances are an insanity defense won't wash.

I totally agree.

Mentally ill: yes.

A good candidate for the insanity defense: no.

In New York, in order for the insanity defense to be applicable, you had to believe you were squashing a giant spider, NOT killing your baby brother. As for this man in Amsterdam, he knew it was his daughter, knew it was illegal, knew it had to be very meticulously hidden from everyone--even hidden from his wife who unknowingly lived upstairs above the dungeon for decades.

And as you pointed out, the fact that he was fully functioning for his entire life as a productive citizen, holding down a job and FEEDING ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE LOCKED UP IN HIS DUNGEON, I would never label him as "helpless" or "weak" and in need of anyone's mercy.
 

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
9,767
Reaction score
3,936
Location
you martyr and shine.
I'm not opposed to capital punishment. And I think the crime perpetrated on this woman and her children was worse than murder. I'd rather be dead than endure what any of them endured over the last couple of decades. In fact, if it was a choice between that and killing myself, I'd kill myself. I think.

Well, I guess that's easy for me to say.
 

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
9,767
Reaction score
3,936
Location
you martyr and shine.
As for this man in Amsterdam, he knew it was his daughter, knew it was illegal, knew it had to be very meticulously hidden from everyone--even hidden from his wife who unknowingly lived upstairs above the dungeon for decades.

And as you pointed out, the fact that he was fully functioning for his entire life as a productive citizen, holding down a job and FEEDING ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE LOCKED UP IN HIS DUNGEON, I would never label him as "helpless" or "weak" and in need of anyone's mercy.
When you put it that way, I think his wife must be a real simpleton, or perhaps blind and deaf. How could all that be going on in your household, under your nose and you're completely unaware?

The whole thing is mind boggling.
 

cethklein

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
3,453
Reaction score
452
Location
USA
Aside from the obvious case of Stockholm syndrome she likely suffers from, this also has a lot of similarities to the girl in Austria who was held for years and recently found after her captor committed suicide.
 

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
6,735
Reaction score
1,833
Location
Limbo
He's obviously not right in the head, but I doubt he was criminally insane if he was otherwise functioning/holding down a job/concealing the crime/etc. for 24 years.

I think the biggest problem we have in America is the notion that if you do something really bad, you must be insane or mentally ill.

I submit that some people are just plain evil.

this is one of those times.

When someone does something really good or noble (volunteer for the red cross, spend all their free time helping the homeless, etc) we don't think of that person as mentally ill. We call these people 'good' people or saints (like mother Teressa)

by that logic, the reverse should apply. When someone does something vile and despicable, then they should be regarded as evil and death by fire ants and jelly fish is too kind a fate for them.

Wouldn't that be something. Imagine a giant swimming pool type vat filled with those huge man of war type jelly fishes or the common box-car jelly fishes and then people like this get thrown in the vat.

Anyways, the link was so disturbing. I'm amazed at the stuff we still do in this modern day and age. Sad. Very very sad.

Mel...
 

Mandy-Jane

venturing ever further into the unknown
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
3,263
Reaction score
754
Location
I will complete a play this year! I will!
I submit that some people are just plain evil.

this is one of those times.

I agree. He's definitely just an evil, bad person.

It amazes me that this went on for so long. It's bad enough to drug, kidnap and sexually abuse your own daughter, but to keep it going for 24 years? That is astounding. Those poor people. Their lives are wrecked. The poor kids have never even had a look at the outside world. He needs the worst punishment there is.

Evil.
 

NikeeGoddess

Banned
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
1,896
Reaction score
103
i know - his wife WTF!!! and if she isn't a simpleton then how could she live with herself knowing this was going on right under her feet for so long?
 

TerzaRima

Absinthe O'Malice
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
3,340
Reaction score
892
Location
the foulest in the land
I suspect this man could cow anyone in his dating pool to stay out of the basement. Look at how well he was able to control the rest of the people in his life.

And I'm against the death penalty in all cases, but I think this guy will probably wish for death in prison. Child rapists are at the, um, bottom of the penitentiary social scale.
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
From what I read in the news article, the wife was his SECOND wife.

And as for accusations of the wife being an imbicile, it seems the guy built a SECRET APARTMENT in the basement to keep his daughter. It was like a foot thick of concrete walls so it was sound proof. She could scream and pound on the walls and ceilings all she wanted, but no one wonld ever hear. It had its own kitchen and bathroom, but was still a very very well hidden prison.


And I suspect the three grandchildren he sired via his daughter --the three who lived with the daughter their entire lives-- have NEVER seen the light of day! EVER!




Could it be that the following have all resulted in those children:

Agoraphobia?
Photophobia?
Utter inability to interact in ANY social setting?
Terrified of all other human beings on the face of the earth other than mommy and grampy?
Complete illiteracy?
Never seen an animal or even a photo of an animal?
Inability to focus the eyes beyond ten feet and therefore near-sighted for the rest of their lives?
Nominal muscle development?
Nominal pulminary development?

The horror of it all .... Please kill this man.



.
 

cethklein

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
3,453
Reaction score
452
Location
USA
how do you not go in the basement for 24 years? how?

Another option is the wife isn't a simpleton but was instead somehow involved in all this. It's definitely possible.

And yes, I think this man is "pure evil". The old Buddhist idea of "everyone is good deep down" doesn't work. Some people are just vile evil pieces of garbage. This man is one of them.
 

HeronW

Down Under Fan
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
6,398
Reaction score
1,854
Location
Rishon Lezion, Israel
What price for restoring the daughter's self-respect, for getting healing for the children?
 

ACEnders

Self-Banned
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
601
Reaction score
660
Location
Too close to the city
Website
strugglingwritersblog.blogspot.com
When you put it that way, I think his wife must be a real simpleton, or perhaps blind and deaf. How could all that be going on in your household, under your nose and you're completely unaware?

The whole thing is mind boggling.

I'm sure his wife was "held captive" also. If this man treated his child like this...and his grandchildren...there's not telling how he treated his wife. She probably had no will or spirit left, so even if she'd had an idea of what was happening, she'd have no way to do something about it.
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
I'm sure his wife was "held captive" also. If this man treated his child like this...and his grandchildren...there's not telling how he treated his wife.

6209.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.