Pulling my hair because of my epic...again

HourglassMemory · May 26, 2008

I’m currently writing a very important part of my story, and the situation that the characters find themselves in immediately creates questions in the minds of the readers. Which is, they’re in a room having a nice breakfast….and then they find they’re on a ship…and not inside a house.

The problem is that the answers to the questions that would arise in the reader's minds (and the characters) aren’t really relevant to the story, were I to give them. But nonetheless the fact that they’re on a ship, literally suddenly(as sudden as their realization), raises a lot of questions. And people understandably want to know more.

However, if I do not explain a few things, then the story’s events just seem extremely controlled and fake and “too good to be true” or too perfect. But how do I avoid that, if I’m limiting the narrations to be close to the characters and not be an omniscient one where I could (and I certainly could) go on about the origin of the ship and why it was there and so on.
For example I have the characters travel on a ship to get to place X.
But even though the ship is there, its origin is unknown. Even to the characters. And they're put on it by a megalomaniac. And the moron himself doesn't know and never bothered to find out(and I feel that his eccentricity isn't an excuse to not search for answers).
But still they use it without expressing any sort of eeriness of doing what they’re doing. I just immediately do them walking around as if they were there for a month.
Of course they’re like “We’re on a ship?!” But nobody that the reader is accompanying can give him an answer of any kind, besides “oh we just found it”. And I feel that an omniscient narration would ruin the feel I want to give to the book.
And they can’t go and research and try to understand where it comes from because, the ship is going somewhere!
If I was going to turn them around…..I just don’t want that... to the point where I break the rudder!
It’s like you were put on an alien spaceship and got control of it and lived your life without wondering where the hell this thing came from. And I don’t want them to go think about it, (because I’m focusing on that “reaching place X”) but I feel that I NEED to have that. Because it would be natural! The characters are innocently ignorant.
This happens to me tons of times.
I feel that I raise a lot of questions in the readers’ minds, and I leave a LOT of them unanswered. The only time they could find anything about it is when they come back from this trip. BUT when the trip ends, that’s when you close the back cover.
The story IS about a journey. Not about where this ship comes from. Or how these pills(which sort of skip the part of water and food) were invented.

I feel that my story is extremely plot driven and that affects the way I think about the characters’ place and role in the plot. I want them to be more active. I feel that this innocent questioning in their minds is them screaming up "Let us take a part in this, for once".
I almost feel that even when they talk I have my hand inside their head, controlling their mouth as if they were Kermit. It really feels like that to me.
I can never get things to flow; to come from ““““Naturality””””.
I can only do things by separated blocks or… it’s hard to explain and 95% of the times it's stuff happening TO them.

I just put these things in the story because they make sense. Or because they’d be a neat reading experience. But they don’t feel natural. They don’t come from the characters, which I would really like to do. If I could only figure out how I could do this, and still bring about extreme situations...

Yes you have the occasional events that they cannot control, but this situation with the boat would make the whole group turn around.
And it becomes even more annoying when they’re all scientists!

It makes Me wonder why aren't they questioning things more if they're these experts?
Urgh…

I feel that I need to know so much back round story. To sort of have really smart answers to why they don’t do this or that. And for that to happen I have to know things like the sort of behaviors individual people and an entire society would have toward really weird unusual things. Like this ship being there in the first place. Do I know how it got there? Sort of yes. And on top of that, this society isn’t like ours at all. This society would swarm to mystery like bees and solve their ignorance as fast as they could.
And it’s been like this for centuries, How do I explain their inaction to these mysteries?
A lot of times I just feel that I have walked a great distance, and I have a smile on my face, but then I notice, behind me, that I’ve dragged along tons of question marks.
And before I can start talking to the people who are going to listen to me telling this story, they're already turning around and shaking their hands.

I look around and if my completed work was a warehouse completely lit, where I stand right now would be in the dark, with just a few candles lit on the ground.

And then I look at books on my shelves and it’s like those guys just lit a fire and let the thing spread. It’s like they put oil on the ground of the warehouse and just “fwoosh!”
I feel so amateur and inexperienced. And I can't seek any guide out there because this story is honestly different from what is out there.

It’s such a tremendous task I have put myself in. And then I want to write it, but then I find I don’t have enough information. And then I want to polish what I have written, and I want to show people for feedback.
Ack!

There will be some of you who are not surprised seeing me, HM, saying "It's hard as hell wanting to offer the world something I, an 18 year old, have never seen out there, and chose this as the first project."

I'm SORRY for the long post.

Fraulein · May 26, 2008

You should start asking yourself questions instead of doubting what you've already written. Do you know why they would want to get on this ship in the first place? Are they walking away from something that they feel they have lost control over, and now, they have to start all over again? Did they steal the ship? Was the ship given to someone in a will? Is the ship the last place of refuge?

Also, what if you stopped worrying about the plot right now and started developing the characters a little more?

mscelina · May 26, 2008

IMO, any action you add to the plot has to have a reason. What reason is there for putting them on this boat without their knowledge or participation. Is that reason (magic, for example) adequately explained to the point where the reader is willing to suspend their disbelief.

If you don't feel it's natural, then it probably isn't. That's not a good thing. A gratuitous plot action will jar the reader out of the story quicker than a fire alarm. You might want to seriously reevaluate your choices here.

just my two cents' worth. Good luck to you!

Kalyke · May 26, 2008

Hey, the last part made complete sence to me. If you are 18, congratulations, we all were and have been at some time.

How to write naturally? You seem to be a fairly natural writer with your writing above. Why not "become" a main character, and write first person. Many writers seem to like first person. Another thing that happens in natural writing is that your characters need to be somewhat evasive. It creates conflict. They can't talk in huge chunks, nor do they give lectures. Allow them to do things as they talk, peel and apple, or something.

I have been among scientists top ones. When they take dinner they don't talk shop generally, and yet these people are passionate about what they do.

I do not recognize any rule that says that a person who is an artist does not talk art, or a person who is a horse trainer does not talk horses. These people are in vocations where they are "on" much of the time. They think constantly about their theories and so on. So unfortunately, you need to know the science if you use scientists. Micheal Crichton wrote a lot about scientists of various types. You could refer to his books to find out how someone else has handled average meat and potatoes science. Or watch the Jurassic park movies again. You find the scientists talk nothing but dinosaurs the entire time. Except for Jeff Goldblum who plays a Chaos mathematician.

I really do not know of any scientist based story that is not about the science more than eating things at a dinner table and having things happen to them. Otherwise, why have a scientist acting the part. If you want your characters to be ignorant of the science, then you should choose non-scientists for your part.

Anyway, I'm sure that my answer is lame compared to others you might get.

HourglassMemory · May 26, 2008

mscelina said:
IMO, any action you add to the plot has to have a reason. What reason is there for putting them on this boat without their knowledge or participation. Is that reason (magic, for example) adequately explained to the point where the reader is willing to suspend their disbelief.

If you don't feel it's natural, then it probably isn't. That's not a good thing. A gratuitous plot action will jar the reader out of the story quicker than a fire alarm. You might want to seriously reevaluate your choices here.

just my two cents' worth. Good luck to you!

They're led there by being convinced that they're going somewhere else. And then they can't do anything about it.
The person who leads them all there is the only one who knows of the existence of the ship, for the person made this plan, but that person does not know where it's from or what it's doing there.
I guess it would fit the story and the character for this to be an act of despair.
Sort of "uhh..ok I have this ship, the chance to do this is going away, uhhh!!!! just put these guys on a ship. Quick!"
What the eccentric man does could be summed up in that, actually.
He does have his reasons to do all of this. To join theses scientists on a ship.

But I still worry that people will think that the ship there is just something taken for granted. That I've just put there to be used. Without much thought. Yet I have thought about it, but the backround really isn't important, and the characters don't know the history of the ship and therefore you don't get the information.
I guess it would create in the reader the same amount of mystery that it creates in the characters themselves.
And to then have the MC thinking about it could entertain the reader and perhaps make them grow affinity toward this particular character.

HourglassMemory · May 26, 2008

alittlenerdy said:
You should start asking yourself questions instead of doubting what you've already written. Do you know why they would want to get on this ship in the first place? Are they walking away from something that they feel they have lost control over, and now, they have to start all over again? Did they steal the ship? Was the ship given to someone in a will? Is the ship the last place of refuge?

Also, what if you stopped worrying about the plot right now and started developing the characters a little more?

They were fooled into the ship by another who also gets in the ship.
I don't understand your second question...
They did not steal the ship, no.

The ship is a remnant of *bleeeeeeeep*.
It's not a last refuge. More like a last resort.

sunandshadow · May 26, 2008

You could add another character who knows what's up with the ship. Either a person on the ship, or the ship's computer, or something. Or put the info in a letter intended for them to read, or in a book in the ship's library, or whatever.

mscelina · May 26, 2008

HourglassMemory said:
They're led there by being convinced that they're going somewhere else. And then they can't do anything about it.

Why is that? Are they drugged? Carried there? what makes them incapable of doing something about being put on this ship?

The person who leads them all there is the only one who knows of the existence of the ship, for the person made this plan, but that person does not know where it's from or what it's doing there.

I'm sorry; I don't understand this at all.

I guess it would fit the story and the character for this to be an act of despair.

In what way? how does he reach this decision? Why is he in despair?

Sort of "uhh..ok I have this ship, the chance to do this is going away, uhhh!!!! just put these guys on a ship. Quick!"
What the eccentric man does could be summed up in that, actually.
He does have his reasons to do all of this. To join theses scientists on a ship.

and unless you show the reader what those reasons are at some point, the whole plotline will be obliterated.

But I still worry that people will think that the ship there is just something taken for granted. That I've just put there to be used. Without much thought. Yet I have thought about it, but the backround really isn't important, and the characters don't know the history of the ship and therefore you don't get the information.

If the ship is that important, it would be natural for the characters to find out as much about it as possible--not the other way around.

I guess it would create in the reader the same amount of mystery that it creates in the characters themselves.
And to then have the MC thinking about it could entertain the reader and perhaps make them grow affinity toward this particular character.

No, what it would probably do is frustrate the reader and make them lose interest in the story. If you create a mystery, your readers crave the mystery being SOLVED. To leave it unresolved will irritate them (like a particular subplot in Indy 4 will still bugs the hell out of me.)

t0neg0d · May 26, 2008

I think I see what your saying (mostly). Fill in the blanks for me if you would...

They were originally planning on going to _______?
Because they needed/wanted to _______?
So, they were planning on traveling to begin with, yes?
Mr. X convinces them to get on _______ ship by telling them it is going there, but it is actually going to _______?
He does this because he sees that by misleading them, he stands to gain _______ benefit?

Or did I miss the boat? Ugh... that was a terrible pun.

Fraulein · May 26, 2008

HourglassMemory said:
They were fooled into the ship by another who also gets in the ship.
I don't understand your second question...
They did not steal the ship, no.

The ship is a remnant of *bleeeeeeeep*.
It's not a last refuge. More like a last resort.

First and foremost, the person leading them to the ship needs to know about the ship unless the ship falls out of thin air magically. Seriously, if the entire group of people coincidentally happen upon the ship for no particular reason, then fine, you don't need to explain anything about how the ship got there since you can't explain the magic behind it.

A last resort to what? Scientists live seemingly boring lives inside laboratories until a more important priority forces them out into the real world. Basically, it's got to be good for them to walk away from their petri dishes and microscopes.

I'm tired and a little hung-over, but here I go... Let me rephrase that second question. Is there anything impeding the natural course of their lives that forces them to stop what they would normally be doing so that they could get tricked into getting on the ship? or Why are they walking away from their job to get on a ship? Ships and scientists are hardly related unless we're talking about scientists like oceanographers or marine biologists.

You need to make connections between the sneaky little seaman, the ship, and the scientists. Frankly, that's all you really need. If you can link the ship to the seaman, the scientists, or both, then I think it would be easier for you to solve this problem.

Sarpedon · May 27, 2008

A last resort to what? Scientists live seemingly boring lives inside laboratories until a more important priority forces them out into the real world. Basically, it's got to be good for them to walk away from their petri dishes and microscopes.

Let's not stereotype scientists please. I've never met a scientist who wasn't interested in things beyond science. Try reading "Surely you must be joking, Mr Feynman," an autobiography of the great physicist, wherein he tells anecdotes of various periods of his life, some of which have to do with science, but many do not. There's no way a scientist could see a mysterious ship like this and not be curious. Curiosity is a common characteristic of scientists. Curiosity is what keeps them in the laboratory, when the rest of us would have gotten bored and wandered away.

Now, as far as the OP goes, I suggest you turn these problems into opportunities. The characters have been brought onto a mysterious ship by a madman. You can use this to create atmosphere. Heighten the surreality of the experience. Have the characters question whether they are going insane, and have them mistrust each other. Describe the ship in lingering detail, with all the creaking timbers, swinging lamps, dripping bilges and everything. Make the ship like a character not a setting.

So the villain who brings them on board hasn't bothered to find out where it came from? Simply have him believe in some erroneous explaination. When incurious people have a false belief fixed in their head, they seldom bother to verify it.

Two books I would recommend; "The Island of the Day Before," by Umberto Eco, describes a man all alone on a ship, and how he gradually loses his grip. And "House of Leaves," or as I describe it, the ultimate creepy house book. You've got a ship, not a house, but try it anyhow; its a wonderful book where the setting is also like a character.

Oooh, now I want to write a story about a ship.

HourglassMemory · May 27, 2008

To mscelina

Why is that? Are they drugged? Carried there? what makes them incapable of doing something about being put on this ship?
Why can’t they do anything about it? Because the madman convinces them to do it after they find out they’re on a ship.
At first they DO fight back, that’s why the rudder is broken because of trying to turn the thing around, and a few other things, but then they all agree to go to place X.
I'm sorry; I don't understand this at all.
The only thing that matters to this person is to get to Place X. Sure the madman might have theories about why the ship is there and where it came from, and perhaps that could even be discussed among the characters, but what’s on the mind of the madman, is to get to Place X. Place X is primary in his mind because of events in his life. Not from where the ship came from. “It’s there….*thinks of place X* ….use it!!”
In what way? how does he reach this decision? Why is he in despair?
Well, going to Place X has always been a problematic thing for this society. And at the start of the story the MC makes it even more difficult to go to Place X. The Mc makes it even more unreasonable to try to go to Place X. So, knowing that the MC’s action will prevent anyone from going to Place X, the “madman” conjures up a last opportunity plan to try and do it one final time. And to assure success, he grabs the best people he can find.
and unless you show the reader what those reasons are at some point, the whole plotline will be obliterated.
I do show the reader the reasons why things are happening. It’s just the backround to the ship that I’m finding problematic.

If the ship is that important, it would be natural for the characters to find out as much about it as possible--not the other way around.The “possible” for them, is to just wonder about it. They really wouldn’t have much more than speculation.
No, what it would probably do is frustrate the reader and make them lose interest in the story. If you create a mystery, your readers crave the mystery being SOLVED. To leave it unresolved will irritate them.
Well I guess I could have the characters discuss the mystery and discuss their own thoughts…but the mystery wouldn’t really be Solved. When they returned they could find something else. The reader would be left with the characters’ theories.

To t0neg0d
They were originally planning on going to _______? The scientists thought they were just going to a house, to have a meeting. The madman is planning to go on to Place X.
Because they needed/wanted to _______? The scientists wanted to just have a meeting with other scientists. They all think it would be interesting to do that, and that motivates all of them to join. The madman just wants to get to Place X.
So, they were planning on travelling to begin with, yes? Only the Madman. The scientists going into the house, are not going to think that they’re going to travel. Just a meeting in a house is what they think. Later they all agree to go to Place X.
Mr. X convinces them to get on a room, a house(which is a ship). He then tells them where the ship is going. Place X. they get mad and behave outraged, but then they settle on to do it.
He does this because he sees that by misleading them, he stands to gain _______ benefit?
Not only does he gain benefit from going to place X, but EVERYONE gets a benefit from going to place X. By showing that going to Place X is achievable, he proves that travelling isn’t as dangerous as people thought. This society has a history of a lot of failures, that’s why they get really scared of going out. But this “madman” just wants to prove them wrong. The show people otherwise, is the benefit in the “madman’s” eyes.

To alittlenerdy
First and foremost, the person leading them to the ship needs to know about the ship unless the ship falls out of thin air magically.
The “madman” knows of the ship. It might have a thought or two about it, have theories. But he’s not really focused on that for this story. This story is about going to Place X. And what he does on place X needs the participation of the scientists, which would decline going to place X. That’s why he has to fool them into the ship without them realising.

Seriously, if the entire group of people coincidentally happen upon the ship for no particular reason, then fine, you don't need to explain anything about how the ship got there since you can't explain the magic behind it.

A last resort to what?To get to Place X. It’s something that has been tried tons of times but always fail, that’s why the scientists would decline doing it. So he fools them into the ship and just wants to get to Place X.

Scientists live seemingly boring lives inside laboratories until a more important priority forces them out into the real world.
I give them those priorities.
Basically, it's got to be good for them to walk away from their petri dishes and microscopes.
Yes it is.

Is there anything impeding the natural course of their lives that forces them to stop what they would normally be doing so that they could get tricked into getting on the ship?Not really. They’re all just invited for a meeting with other scientists and the subject of the meeting is kept secret to motivate their curiosity. The reason why they leave their “Petri dishes” is because they think a meeting with other scientists would be interesting.

Why are they walking away from their job to get on a ship?
From their point of view, they’re just going to a house, to have a meeting with other scientists.

Ships and scientists are hardly related unless we're talking about scientists like oceanographers or marine biologists.
Not if you make them blind of the fact that where they’re having a meeting is in a ship.

mscelina · May 27, 2008

Hourglass, you asked for help and are spending all your time defending the very decisions that you questioned yourself in the beginning.

Sounds to me like you've already made your decision. If I were you, though, I'd look at all the confusion your OP instilled in these readers and writers and think very carefully about whether what you've decided will stand on its own merits. My hunch is that it will not.

But it's your book. *shrug* Do with it what you will.

HourglassMemory · May 27, 2008

Could you give me an example of what I've questioned and then defended?

I realize that some things might not be clear to people, but that's because this moment in the story is complex, and if I talk about something, I have to bring along a mountain of other things.
As you read, I would guess that it would flow and people wouldn't be very confused.
I guess they would just get confused or annoyed, when the ship shows up. And all they're left with is the characters' speculations and not what really is the case, because the narrator is not omniecient. They're left with a sort of mystery(the characters speculate but they could be wrong) which I don't think is bad. Because the story isn't really about this mystery. It's about the trip.

Perhaps reading the responses I gave to the others would clarify something.

dirtsider · May 27, 2008

Ok, at first I thought the characters had been physically drugged into unconciousness and woke up on the ship.

Now that I read through this, I had a thought. If having the scientists on the ship is so important, why not have the meeting with the "madman" be on the ship to begin with? Why do your characters have to meet at a house only to find it's a ship? It's perfectly plausible to have your characters on a dinner cruise. People do it all the time if it's available. Scientists are just like anyone else, they'll be flattered to be invited to someone's personal ship for dinner. The madman can say that it's a guarantee no one eavesdrop on the conversations, if you want to go that far.

Then you can ratchet up the suspense by having them notice over time that they're no longer in familar territory and have been pretty much abducted.

t0neg0d · May 27, 2008

Taking a wild guess here, but I am getting the idea that this "ship" is not your usual methods of transportation. i.e. Please, have a seat in the ol' time machine. Can I grab you a Coke?

Which would make it much different than--Let's take the yacht out for a spin while we catch up over lunch.

dirtsider · May 27, 2008

t0neg0d said:
Taking a wild guess here, but I am getting the idea that this "ship" is not your usual methods of transportation. i.e. Please, have a seat in the ol' time machine. Can I grab you a Coke?

Which would make it much different than--Let's take the yacht out for a spin while we catch up over lunch.

lol - Then it's back to the old "slip 'em a mickey" routine and have them wake up abducted. That was my first reaction but then I got confused about "breaking the rudder" deal, which is why I thought they were on a yacht.

HourglassMemory · May 27, 2008

Wondering about in a ship is not normal at all for these people. And going around the sea has been done a few times but they just prefer not to do it.

That's why they can't be invited onto a ship. Because being on a ship usually means you're not going to remain on land. That's why they have to be fooled.
And drugging them really isn't the sort of stuff I want to do.
I actually want the madman to show his intelligence by not having to drug anyone. Just by using his intellect, he fools 6 scientists of different fields. I just think that's cooler.

This story isn't happening on our planet, this society has issues with leaving their city. With exploration.
That's why he's a "madman" for putting them on a ship in the first place. For thinking of going out of the city, and especially going on to an unknown sea.

If he told them right away "come into my ship!" they would freak out.
I know it's odd to people like you and me. that's why I use the first part of the story establishing that going out of the city is dangerous and seen as irrational by these people. Without this emotion that they have when they look at the horizon, then my story is, as has been said, obliterated.
If the readers are willing to suspend their disbelief and accept this, then it works.

I was only having a problem with the backround story of the ship.
But I've twisted and turned a few things and I think I've polished this problem now.
I'll have to think about it more.

More of anyone's thoughts would certainly be welcome, though.

Fraulein · May 27, 2008

Sarpedon said:
Let's not stereotype scientists please. I've never met a scientist who wasn't interested in things beyond science. Try reading "Surely you must be joking, Mr Feynman," an autobiography of the great physicist, wherein he tells anecdotes of various periods of his life, some of which have to do with science, but many do not. There's no way a scientist could see a mysterious ship like this and not be curious.

In my opinion, accusations of stereotyping are overused. Stereotypes are necessary, because the world wouldn't be the way that it is without them.

"He's a man."
"How do you know he's a man?"
"Because he has a beard."
"Well how do you know that isn't a woman with a beard?"
"Because he's wearing a neck tie."
"Well how do you that isn't a bearded woman wearing a neck tie?"
"Because he doesn't have breasts."
"Well how do you that isn't a bearded, breastless woman wearing a neck tie?"
"Because his name is John."
"Well how do you that isn't...?"

How do ships and scientists mix without some sort of overlap? It doesn't make sense... to me.

Sarpedon said:
Curiosity is a common characteristic of scientists. Curiosity is what keeps them in the laboratory, when the rest of us would have gotten bored and wandered away.

Exactly. Why is a ship more curious to a scientist than his own work?

Fraulein · May 27, 2008

HourglassMemory said:
Wondering about in a ship is not normal at all for these people. And going around the sea has been done a few times but they just prefer not to do it.

That's why they can't be invited onto a ship. Because being on a ship usually means you're not going to remain on land. That's why they have to be fooled.
And drugging them really isn't the sort of stuff I want to do.
I actually want the madman to show his intelligence by not having to drug anyone. Just by using his intellect, he fools 6 scientists of different fields. I just think that's cooler.

This story isn't happening on our planet, this society has issues with leaving their city. With exploration.
That's why he's a "madman" for putting them on a ship in the first place. For thinking of going out of the city, and especially going on to an unknown sea.

If he told them right away "come into my ship!" they would freak out.
I know it's odd to people like you and me. that's why I use the first part of the story establishing that going out of the city is dangerous and seen as irrational by these people. Without this emotion that they have when they look at the horizon, then my story is, as has been said, obliterated.
If the readers are willing to suspend their disbelief and accept this, then it works.

I was only having a problem with the backround story of the ship.
But I've twisted and turned a few things and I think I've polished this problem now.
I'll have to think about it more.

More of anyone's thoughts would certainly be welcome, though.

Mesmerize them. Hypnosis could work.

HourglassMemory · May 27, 2008

alittlenerdy said:
Mesmerize them. Hypnosis could work.

What do you mean by that?

Fraulein · May 27, 2008

HourglassMemory said:
What do you mean by that?

You said,

HourglassMemory said:
"drugging them really isn't the sort of stuff I want to do. I actually want the madman to show his intelligence by not having to drug anyone. Just by using his intellect, he fools 6 scientists of different fields. I just think that's cooler."

Just a thought: business men can be intelligent. Certain people could sale almost anything. Maybe the "madman" has awesome business-like skills that he can use to mesmerize and lure the scientists into the ship (instead of drugging them). He may not have to lie to "fool" them. If all else fails, you could always persuade the scientists with that leafy green stuff called money.

Sarpedon · May 28, 2008

Look, my best friend has a Phd in theoretical physics, and works in a research position in a major university. His hobbies include music; he can play several instruments and performs them publically, he learned several languages as an adult, including ancient greek, arabic, italian and others, he's a fine cook and always curious about new foods, he reads and memorizes poetry, he can draw, he's a good writer. He is not exactly typical, but when I meet his colleagues, I find them all to have significant interests outside of science. They are real people, and not charicatures. None of the scientists I've met, and I've met a bunch, would let a mystery sitting in front of them pass unremarked.

You are correct that some scientists, and many of the great ones, have obsessive personalities. Newton, when asked how he solved the problem of gravitation, answered simply 'By thinking on it without ceasing.' For years, apparently. He was also known to go to his rooms to retrieve something, only to have his friends find him there hours later working on a problem. Einstein showed some similar characteristics, admitting that when he had started doing something, he had to finish, even if it were shown not to be necessary.

Not every scientist is like this. In fact, I've never met one who was. Not every lawyer is a sleazy, greedy liar. Not every cop eats donuts and beats up black motorists. When I read, I like to read about characters, not stereotypes.

Fraulein · May 28, 2008

Sarpedon said:
Look, my best friend has a Phd in theoretical physics, and works in a research position in a major university. His hobbies include music; he can play several instruments and performs them publically, he learned several languages as an adult, including ancient greek, arabic, italian and others, he's a fine cook and always curious about new foods, he reads and memorizes poetry, he can draw, he's a good writer. He is not exactly typical, but when I meet his colleagues, I find them all to have significant interests outside of science. They are real people, and not charicatures. None of the scientists I've met, and I've met a bunch, would let a mystery sitting in front of them pass unremarked.

You are correct that some scientists, and many of the great ones, have obsessive personalities. Newton, when asked how he solved the problem of gravitation, answered simply 'By thinking on it without ceasing.' For years, apparently. He was also known to go to his rooms to retrieve something, only to have his friends find him there hours later working on a problem. Einstein showed some similar characteristics, admitting that when he had started doing something, he had to finish, even if it were shown not to be necessary.

Not every scientist is like this. In fact, I've never met one who was. Not every lawyer is a sleazy, greedy liar. Not every cop eats donuts and beats up black motorists. When I read, I like to read about characters, not stereotypes.

Well, I'll have a Doctorate of Pharmacy in less than two years. It's called a PharmD. I'll be a scientist and a healthcare practitioner. If I was five minutes away from figuring out how to cure cancer without destroying healthy cells in the process, I wouldn't budge for anything.

I have a bachelors degree in German too. Obviously I enjoy other things than lab work or I wouldn't be on this website, but the OP's characters are not the adventurous types, so they have to come out of their little worlds to discover the ship.

"None of the scientists I've met, and I've met a bunch, would let a mystery sitting in front of them pass unremarked." - The ship is not in front of them. They have to go to the ship with the "madman". Did you catch that part?

Feathers · May 28, 2008

HourglassMemory said:
I was only having a problem with the backround story of the ship.
But I've twisted and turned a few things and I think I've polished this problem now.
I'll have to think about it more.

More of anyone's thoughts would certainly be welcome, though.

I *think* after reading everything everyone's said, and all your comments, that I get what your having trouble with. Your characters get stuck on this ship and naturally, they want to know about it, but the backstory isn't important to the plot so you don't want to put it in there. But then that leaves the characters feeling unnatural. Because, being scientists, they are curious. Correct?

Ok. One option is that you could make the backstory of the ship important to the story later on. Maybe not a whole new plotline or anything, but a teeny tiny puzzle piece that suddenly makes everything come together at the end.

The other thing I'm thinking is that maybe you could try shifting the attention. Who's the ships captain? Is it the madman? Whoever it is, have some of your scientist's address him. Make him evasive but really human. (I'm thinking a bit of Captain Nemo from "10,000 Leagues Under the Sea", here.) Make the ship HIS backstory, and then reveal it like you would any character's backstory...as needed...bits and pieces...that sort of thing. Then there's the crew. Do the same thing: make them people, make them have their own histories, make them each have their own ways of thinking/dealing with the ship. Maybe a younger sailor knows less but is more open about what he knows. Satisfy your MC's curiosity without turning it into this huge mystery. Make the answers few, but easy to come by.

I think you do need to address the ship's backstory. You can't just have your characters blindly going about as if they don't care when they obviously should.

Long post...hope all that helped!

Pulling my hair because of my epic...again

HourglassMemory

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