In MY opinion - a new subject that may soon be off-limits.

[DWSTXS]

In MY opinion, there is a new subject that may soon be off-limits to discuss in the workplace, or with people you don't know well.

Some things you can't discuss with co-workers and strangers in public.

Politics
Religion
Sex

Subjects like Politics, Sex, and Religion are practically verboten at work, and in lots of social interactions with many people. Most times you can't discuss these without feeling as if one has commited a serious social faux paux.

These subjects are usually so hotly contested and volatile that if you don't already know the person very well, you are treading on dangerous ground to simply bring them up and risk alienating the person you are talking to.

Let's take abortion as an example.

It's one of those two-sided, black or white issues. You either are 'for' it, or you are 'against' it.

Same thing with:

Politics. Republican or Democrat?

Sex. Should gays be given the right to marry?

Abortion. For or against?

Aliens. Real or imagined?

Taxes. For or against?

Voting. Social responsibility or a simple right to be exercised at will?


Most people already have their mind already made up on these issues, and they're not going to just give in, and change their mind, as soon as you make your argument, if it is opposite theirs.

and now we have another 'almost-taboo' subject. 'Peak Oil'

I believe that Peak Oil is rapidly becoming one of these types of 'for' or 'against' arguments. You either believe that Peak Oil is a serious issue that is confronting us now, or about to, or you don;t believe in even the validity of the main argument.

Discussing (or arguing about) it, usually just causes either side to dig their heels in even deeper. No one just 'gives in' and sees the light, either 'for' or 'against'.

There seems to be 5 main types of persons involved in arguments in the Peak Oil debate.

#1 - The Haves - This person has wealth (or what they percieve as wealth. or, they simply want everyone to think they have wealth.) and they want everyone to know that the idea of high priced gas and oil shortages is a MYTH. After all, they're not hurting, (so they say) and if they were to admit that they've been pinched by the cost of gas at the pump, that would be like admitting failure to them. They want you to know that they are above the fray, and not to be bothered by such common silliness.

#2 - The MYTH-man. -Usually a hybrid of the Haves. The Myth-man thinks it's all a big misunderstanding. There is NO oil shortage. It's just a bunch of greedy speculators making a quick buck. There is NO shortage. It will all die down in a few months, just like it did in the 70's and everything will go back to 'normal'. When asked what 'normal' is, they usually start talking down to you like you're Forrest Gump on a slow day, and talking about their last financial point of reference (Ithe real-estate boom in the 80's). They know this cultural touchstone because they lost their ass trying to be mr. wheeler-dealer, but they'll never admit that to anyone. But, they ARE experts at telling you all the reasons why there are no shortages. Just bear with them and maybe they''ll impart their wisdom to you. You know the Myth-man because they have a condescending tone of voice when they talk to you, and one of the phrases they use a lot is: "You just don't understand the complexities of what's happening" (because you're a moron, after all)

#2 - The Have-nots - The common-man position in this argument. He doesn't give a DAMN who's causing the price to skyrocket, and he doesn't care if there is an oil shortage or not. He's got better things to do (like earn a living to be able to pay for the high cost of gas and everything else) than argue about it. As if arguing about it with a computer salesman, or an unemployed Starbucks barrista, or a housewife-wanna-be-novelist on the other side of the country will do any good anyway.
All the common-man knows is that he spends a big chunk of change at the gas pumps every week, it's seriously affecting his quality of life, and it's pissing him off, yet there's nothing he can do about it. Yet.

#3 - The thinker. The thinker isn't wealthy enough to NOT worry about the price at the pump, but is fooled into thinking that studying up on it will give them a leg up. While well informed, the thinker generally wastes time by over-studying and getting so involved in the intricate process of understanding it all that the bigger point is lost. The thinker becomes so immersed in the scientific jargon and scientific analysis of the problem, that they eventually become too obtuse and unable to converse with anyone that isn't loaded down with Master's degrees and think-tank levels of intelligence. In other words, they morph into enginerds and scientist-geeks.

#4 -The poor man. He is rapidly losing the battle of what little cash is in his pocketbook, and he's getting angry. He wants to do something about it, but what can one do?

#5 - Peak Oil Zealot - POZ
This is the one spreading the gospel of Peak Oil. Some of these people offer dire warnings, and some simply offer up statistics and studies and darkly caution you to draw your own inferences, and some are so into it, that they are sporting lab coats and beakers.


Discuss it around the water cooler at work? Every other person he talks to says the whole thing is a myth, or that it's the Saudi's, taking us to the cleaners. As soon as he loses his job, maybe his car and his house because he can no longer afford them, he's going to be pissed beyond belief. He thinks someone should pay for all this mess. He wishes he could protest, something that would make everyone sit up and take notice.
He feels like the man in the movie 'Network', screaming "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!"
He thinks someone should do something, he just doesn't know what.

JUST my opinion. That's all.

What do you think?

[robeiae]

#2 and #4 seem to be the same thing.

Also, where is the description for the person that knows all about peak oil and has the future all figured out?

But I think you're reaching. Sex. Politics. Religion...Peak Oil??? Do you really think it's become that kind of issue that it is on par with abortion and the like? Almost everyone has an opinion on abortion. I seriously doubt there are too many people out there arguing about peak oil.

Or do you just mean the cost of gas, in general? Everyone certainly has an opinion about that, but I think there is mostly agreement there: it's too damn expensive.

But I think the larger issue here is the application of the concept, beyond the immediate effects. Global Warming discussions face a similar roadblock.

Let's assume that peak oil is upon us, that we will never again produce as much oil in a day as we did yesterday. That production will go down, and it will do so rapidly. Okay. Fine. Now what?

Obviously--I think--there will be consequences in the world economy, at large. The one thing we can say with almost absolute certainty is that oil prices would skyrocket in the short term. Not just go up, but go through the roof. And obviously, all products that are made with oil or require oil to be manufactured would increase in price--until something less expensive is found as a substitute.

Now, will there be chaos? Will people riot? Will there be war? I don't know. And neither do you. Things will change, and the process will likely be tumultuous at times. But the future is not written in this regard. To posit an absolute certainty of the future after peak oil, to maintain that peak oil is here NOW, and to cast that future as pessimistically as possible strikes me as nothing other than fear-mongering. And to what end? To prove you know something no one else does?

[kuwisdelu]

There's another thing that's one of those topics. It's almost taboo to mention climate change to some people because they don't think it's real, which is just silly. I want to slap them.

[DWSTXS]

Also, where is the description for the person that knows all about peak oil and has the future all figured out?

But I think you're reaching. Sex. Politics. Religion...Peak Oil??? Do you really think it's become that kind of issue that it is on par with abortion and the like? Almost everyone has an opinion on abortion. I seriously doubt there are too many people out there arguing about peak oil.
Robeiae-
********

Well, I think that Myth man thinks he has it all figured out, and so do the Haves and the Thinker. I think that Poor and Common Man don't give it much thought as far as WHY it's happening.
But yes, I REALLY do think that this will be ONE of those volatile topics.

The REASON that I say this, is because last night, in a coffeeshop, I heard 2 people going at it, in a very heated exchange, and it turned out to be gas prices and it evolved into Peak Oil and yes, they were using the words Peak Oil.
After a few minutes they both started looking at some web site on their laptops and arguing over some data, and a table next to them got into the argument.

THAT is what got me started thinking that this topic is going to become the next 'global warming' just as Kuwisdelu mentions in the post above.

I was just throwing out my opinions and I'm sure that 100 people can shoot holes in a lot of what I said, which is why I labelled this as MY OPINIONS.

What fascinates me more than anything is how some people don't even let gas prices become a blip on their radar, whether they can afford it or not, they just go along as best they can.
Others get all fired up over it.
Judging from what I saw in the coffeeshop last night, and judging from some of the threads on AW that I have also participated in, this subject seems to be a hot one and I think it's along the lines of some of the subjects I mentioned above.

Of course, if Peak Oil is NOT coming, and if gas prices drop, then I'm sure that my 'opinion' and this post, will soon be long forgotten. If gas prices keep going up, then I think that this topic and what I've outlined here, may become a truism.

[Tanatra]

I'm one of the few who actually tries to find the middle ground in the abortion issue; I am personally against the practice, but at the same time I feel that I don't have the right to force that decision on others. Either way, abortion is an issue that I feel has no place in politics on the national level. Exactly how much impact does abortion have on the economy? Foreign relations?

Then again, this country has a habit of blowing non-issues into outrageous proportions (see: gay marriage and/or any criticism of a presidential candidate unrelated to his/her policies). I fear that Peak Oil will turn out to be just like the global warming debate; people will waste time arguing over whether or not the phenomenon exists while totally ignoring the real problem. In the case of global warming, the real problem is air pollution, which is something that should be reduced regardless of a potential (and hotly debated) effect. As for Peak Oil, regardless of how much black stuff is left in the ground we're using far too much of the stuff and should cut back consumption ASAP.

I'm not saying that Peak Oil and Global Warming are non-issues because they aren't, but they are distractions from the true issues.

[Ken]

to be honest, no one wants to talk about these issues at work, anyway.
All they want to do is gossip about this person and that,
which is why I always cloister myself up in my cubicle wherever I work,
and speak to coworkers only when need calls.
"Got any paper clips?"
"Can I borrow your stapler?"
"Okay if I take a break?"
That's about the extent of my interaction.

[SPMiller]

I dunno about you, but at every job I've worked, everyone constantly talked about religion, sex, and politics.

Except me. I kept my mouth shut, because I wanted to keep my job...

[Ken]

maybe it's just the town I live in?

[DWSTXS]

Anis - SPM

You've both given me a new idea.
I'm going to start a NEW thread...along the lines of 'What's the strangest thing that's ever happened in your workplace."

[Ken]

sounds good DWS.
Be prepared for some rather outlandish responses, though ;-)

[robeiae]

Originally Posted by DWSTXS

Well, I think that Myth man thinks he has it all figured out, and so do the Haves and the Thinker. I think that Poor and Common Man don't give it much thought as far as WHY it's happening.
But yes, I REALLY do think that this will be ONE of those volatile topics.

Still, where is the description of the person that is pushing the peak oil argument? It's not there.

The REASON that I say this, is because last night, in a coffeeshop, I heard 2 people going at it, in a very heated exchange, and it turned out to be gas prices and it evolved into Peak Oil and yes, they were using the words Peak Oil.
After a few minutes they both started looking at some web site on their laptops and arguing over some data, and a table next to them got into the argument.

What do you mean "in a coffeeshop"? What, like a Starbucks? What kind of fool would shell out three bucks for a cup of coffee when the economy is a bad as it is, when gasoline is so expensive? That's just crazy...

[Elodie-Caroline]

I couldn't be anywhere where I couldn't say what I think and speak my mind openly, it's as simple as that


Elodie

[DWSTXS]

What's the strangest thing that's ever happened in your workplace?

there's the thread topic I just started about talk in the workplace.

[DWSTXS]

Originally Posted by robeiae

Still, where is the description of the person that is pushing the peak oil argument? It's not there.

What do you mean "in a coffeeshop"? What, like a Starbucks? What kind of fool would shell out three bucks for a cup of coffee when the economy is a bad as it is, when gasoline is so expensive? That's just crazy...

I think that 'The Thinker' is the person who is pushing the Peak Oil theory, at least in MY mind, that's who it is.

But, you may be right, maybe there needs to be a #5

The coffeeshop I frequent has cheaper drinks than Starbucks! LOL, plus beer and wine.

[DWSTXS]

Originally Posted by robeiae

Still, where is the description of the person that is pushing the peak oil argument? It's not there.

What do you mean "in a coffeeshop"? What, like a Starbucks? What kind of fool would shell out three bucks for a cup of coffee when the economy is a bad as it is, when gasoline is so expensive? That's just crazy...

Okay Rob, you convinced me. I just added character #5. Peak Oil Zealot - a.k.a. 'POZ'

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by DWSTXS

#5 - Peak Oil Zealot - POZ
This is the one spreading the gospel of Peak Oil. Some of these people offer dire warnings, and some simply offer up statistics and studies and darkly caution you to draw your own inferences, and some are so into it, that they are sporting lab coats and beakers.

What about the ones who sport lab coats and beakers anyway? My girlfriend works in a research lab Right across from a biofuels project, actually.

[DWSTXS]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

What about the ones who sport lab coats and beakers anyway? My girlfriend works in a research lab Right across from a biofuels project, actually.

LOL. Not demeaning them, because they are LEGITIMATE scientists, the ones who put on the lab coats to pose are the ones I'm talking about.

The ones your 'real' scientists could talk to for 2 minutes and realize how full of BS they really are.

[Rolling Thunder]

Ya know, Doyle, if you grew a set of 'man sized' instead of running around whining about people whom disagree with your opinions you'd probably be a stand-up kinda of guy.

But you didn't, so you're not. Moving this to TIO, since it really is nothing more that veiled innuendo.

[DWSTXS]

Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder

Ya know, Doyle, if you grew a set of 'man sized' instead of running around whining about people whom disagree with your opinions you'd probably be a stand-up kinda of guy.

But you didn't, so you're not. Moving this to TIO, since it really is nothing more that veiled innuendo.

RT, I am sorry if my opinion has somehow offended you. It was clearly though, offered up as humor, my OPINION, and I honestly thought that opinions were allowed on AW.
If I was incorrect about then I apologize.

I honestly feel that your personal attack was a bit out of line and immature though.

We all know that those who resort to name calling only do so because their arguments are so weak they have nothing left to fall back on except ridicule.

[dpaterso]

Gotta say, Doyle, it's not difficult to relate your (dare I say argumentative) comments in the High Price of Gas Discussion(s) thread to your "types of persons" categories in this thread.

No one's stopping you from expressing your opinions and making jokes, but when you throw a harpoon with clear intent to ridicule someone, you can't expect that someone, the target of your jest, to laugh along with you. Your "It was clearly though, offered up as humor" disclaimer above rings false and so does your protest. Let's not pretend you didn't know exactly what you were saying, or that's it's only a joke, 'cause that's just not gonna fly.

-Derek

[DWSTXS]

who, in your opinion, did I ridicule? I'm not being argumentative here, I would like to know what you think.

[dpaterso]

What, are you deliberately trying to be obtuse? You're seriously trying to tell me that your MYTH-man paragraph doesn't relate to your responses to Rolling Thunder in the gas discussion thread? And that you didn't understand why he posted in response to your harpoon -- or understand a word of what I said in my post above? Oh come now, don't force me to use more smileys! It's demeaning to both of us.

-Derek

[robeiae]

Originally Posted by dpaterso

Gotta say, Doyle, it's not difficult to relate your (dare I say argumentative) comments in the High Price of Gas Discussion(s) thread to your "types of persons" categories in this thread.

Wait a minute...

[Rolling Thunder]

Originally Posted by DWSTXS

who, in your opinion, did I ridicule? I'm not being argumentative here, I would like to know what you think.

So, let's get this straight:

-You feel it's okay to pen a list to ridicule others because they won't kneel down and embrace -your- opinions.

-You call my statement a personal attack, but deny yours is because it was written as 'humor'.

-You feign innocence, or stupidity, because you 'just don't understand'.

-You then send me a positive rep point stating: Great comment. Thanks for your opinion, for this comment:

Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder

Ya know, Doyle, if you grew a set of 'man sized' instead of running around whining about people whom disagree with your opinions you'd probably be a stand-up kinda of guy.

But you didn't, so you're not. Moving this to TIO, since it really is nothing more that veiled innuendo.

-Which, when added up, suggests you are baiting and trolling. Not a healthy combination to pursue, Doyle.

[DWSTXS]

No. I absolutely did not equate Myth man to RT.

The fact is this, RT, and Plot Device and lots of other people know tons more than I do about Peak Oil.

I admire their dedication to learning so much about this problem that is quickly becoming a national concern.

I happen to agree with about 90% of what Plot Device has been saying, BUT, at the same time, I like to see what the people on the other side of the debate are saying too.

I did disagree with someone's assertion that the Peak Oil situation is comparable to the real estate boom in the 80's and I still feel that I am correct. But, I am glad that those arguing against me in that assertion are making their arguments because they are forcing me to think about it. Who knows, they may very well convince me that they are right and I am wrong. If they do, then that's good. I am not closed minded. I don't think that anyone in that discussion IS close-minded either. If they were, they wouldn't be taking the time to set forth their argument.

I do NOT claim to KNOW more than they do. Undoubtedly, they study it and have tons of data at their disposal. I have read the posts, jumped in on a few discussions, and made a few points of my own. Everything I've said has been opinion. In fact, most of what everyone is posting is opinion about what will happen in the future in regards to peak oil.

My thread was meant to a be tongue-in-cheek discourse about what subjects are becoming volatile in public these days.

maybe my 'examples' were pointed, but I assure you, that I had NO ONE specific in mind from that thread when I made them.

I just think it's strange how some subjects become almost taboo to discuss in public, and I think that Peak Oil will soon become one of them. As a social phenomenon it's intriguing to me that suddenly, a discussion is almost off limits, whereas six months ago, no one was even familiar with the term Peak Oil.

Obviously RT took offense to an imagined slight, and like I said, it wasn't aimed at him. If he thinks I have an axe to grind with him, then I'm sorry, but I don't.

That's why I was so surprised by the personal attack (grow some balls etc). If someone thinks it's wrong to attack someone, but then in response, they turn around attack that person? Wouldn't that be the pot calling the kettle black?