Word Count for Mainstream Fiction ???

MelancholyMan · 06-21-2008, 06:02 PM

Okay, so I've been marketing my work wrong for like, ever. Never to late to change, is it?

So what's a good length for mainstream fiction? This has thriller and military elements with a bit of romance. It is sitting at 156K after extensive cutting over a couple of years. Try sending it out or keep cutting?

-MM

DamaNegra · 06-23-2008, 08:49 AM

Keep cutting. The 'acceptable' range is somewhere between 70-90k. 100k if you stretch it a bit.

Use Her Name · 06-25-2008, 04:11 AM

Did you change the title of your book too? I still think you should write something else and then have this perfect "finished" book in reserve. I am a fan of writing ahead.

Susan Breen · 06-25-2008, 07:07 AM

I'd cut a little more.

MelancholyMan · 06-27-2008, 06:52 AM

I think I'll just find something else to do...

Rena Andra · 06-30-2008, 07:39 AM

The word count thing has my throat in a vice too. I performed what I call a slaughterfest on my manuscript, and brought it down to a tidy 355000 words. I searched for places to slice it into a series, and it can't be done without scraping out necessary elements. I believe it is doomed to wait for three hundred years, when it will be excavated by great horned owls or some damn thing.
RA

nccreative · 06-30-2008, 07:06 PM

won't even begin sending it out until it's no more than 100k. Same mantra: "They won't even look at a first-time author's manuscript unless it's under 100k words."

Ouch. It's being edited, line by line, now with that intent.

I'm not a big fan of "them." LOL

Rena Andra · 07-01-2008, 11:05 PM

100k...That would be about 28.16 percent of the entire ms. I guess for lack of a better term, this ms is screwed. I went through all 9 of my ms, and find that only three are anywhere near that number. Only one is under 100k, the other two are 145k and 181k.
Geez, someone take away the calculator on desktop!
RA

MelancholyMan · 07-02-2008, 06:42 AM

Remember, we're not writing stories, we're writing product.

But there are plenty of first times that come in over 100K. Does it make it harder? Hell, I don't know, it doesn't seem to matter what I send in.

-MM

MelancholyMan · 07-02-2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rena Andra

The word count thing has my throat in a vice too. I performed what I call a slaughterfest on my manuscript, and brought it down to a tidy 355000 words. I searched for places to slice it into a series, and it can't be done without scraping out necessary elements. I believe it is doomed to wait for three hundred years, when it will be excavated by great horned owls or some damn thing.
RA

355,000 words! Egad! Editing would take... years!

-MM

Rena Andra · 07-03-2008, 09:12 AM

Well shiat. The way you put that MM, makes my gut sorta enlarge. This particular work was in progress for six years, editing for three. Damn it, but I think I need a drink. It's not that I can't edit, I just don't want to bugger it up. It's bloody well perfect as it is, I just have to find a reasonable readfreak editor to sop it up into their title list!
RA

nccreative · 07-04-2008, 05:00 AM

Does an appendix count toward the total word count for a novel? I can't find a definitive answer to that question.

Thanks!

brainstorm77 · 01-30-2009, 12:12 AM

What about self publishing it? Just for self for yourself to see how that goes... Like through LuLu and just write something else?

JrFFKacy · 03-11-2009, 06:02 AM

355,000 words? Goodness, I'm trying to make my 51,000word manuscript grow up to 70,000, I can't imagine ever being able to write that much! Too bad you can't find a way to cut it up into smaller pieces, it seems a shame to waste so many words! lol.

Lainey Bancroft · 03-16-2009, 06:29 AM

My first 'epic' was a bloated 235K. If I were so inclined (which I am not at the moment) I could easily half that with everything I've learned the last three years.

still alive · 03-16-2009, 06:01 PM

I'm lurking. But I have to say: As hard as it is to cut; it's harder not to sell! Thank you very much....

wanderlust · 03-18-2009, 07:41 AM

DON'T CUT!! If it took 6 years to write, and you're cutting 2/3 of it- thats 4 years of your life you're looking to cut! Argh.... that's frustrating

Can you write another nove instead? 100k limit is for FIRST time authors, right? SO...write a 100k novel, then try submitting this one again..just a thought. Why mess with perfection anyways? It won't be half the novel (literally) it is now...

brainstorm77 · 03-18-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lainey Bancroft

My first 'epic' was a bloated 235K. If I were so inclined (which I am not at the moment) I could easily half that with everything I've learned the last three years.

How long did it take to write and polish?

Herman Munster · 04-30-2009, 10:12 PM

"The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" is a triple trilogy. 3 x 3 volume sets. 9 books.
All were over 500 pages and I bought everyone. I have no idea what each word count was or the total, but if you wrote a worthy 355k or 235k words, then chop nothing, look to make them into 90-100k word series.
If you can't or won't try to sell that as unpublished authors, then write the 80-100k #2 and call it #1 and publish that b4 you publish your original work.
My #1 is 114k, too many words they said. #2 is 84k, and interchangeable as to what you read first. #3 is 104k and needs to have knowledge and scene setting from #1 or #2, preferably both, from my POV anyways!

Ms.rachel · 05-01-2009, 04:16 PM

can you cut several stories from it that can stand alone or be read as a series? just a thought.

barbilarry · 07-23-2009, 04:38 AM

I agree with Ms.Rachel. Could you turn it into a series. It's just something to think about. Good luck.
Jane

SarahMacManus · 07-23-2009, 07:53 PM

"Thomas Covenant" is not mainstream, it's fantasy. Word counts for fantasy can run up to 120K for first time authors and well over 150K for proven authors.

A first time mainstream novel should land around 100K.

CarolSanDiego · 07-24-2009, 03:01 AM

Here's a link to a blog Colleen Lindsay, Agent with FinePrint Literary, did on word counts. Matches up well to everything else I've seen.

http://theswivet.blogspot.com/2008/0...el-length.html

Whenever I hear about word counts that go way over accepted guidelines, I wonder about story structure and tightness. Maybe putting those works aside until you can look at them with an objective (and hopefully less emotionally attached) eye could help. We all have to kill some of our darlings! Best of luck.

JoshPatton · 07-24-2009, 10:34 PM

I think perhaps shelving the larger work for now might not be a bad thing. Sure, if you can stand cutting it and you feel that it would be the best introduction of you as a writer to the world, then go ahead. Often I hear other writers saying that hacking apart a manuscript is very cathartic and enriching work.

However, it might not be so bad to really sit down and pound out a shorter work. I know made that sound like it was something to do between go to the grocery store and build an addition on your house completely by yourself. Of course, I may also feel this way because I find it difficult to self-edit.

I wonder how many authors had their first works published? I mean isn't it usually like the third or fourth novel one writes before you get published? So write those other, shorter books. Then you can sell those older works and the same people who shit on them before will call them "unvarnished, raw, and exciting." Again these are the same people who would see how long your "first novel" is and send it back probably unread.

Good luck. Let us know how this turns out!

DannySherbet · 11-15-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JrFFKacy

355,000 words? Goodness, I'm trying to make my 51,000word manuscript grow up to 70,000, I can't imagine ever being able to write that much! Too bad you can't find a way to cut it up into smaller pieces, it seems a shame to waste so many words! lol.

Ir's a shame there isn't a way for the 'overwriters' to donate their excess words to the 'underwriters'.

06-25-2008, 07:07 AM	#4
Susan Breen practical experience, FTW Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New York Posts: 846	I'd cut a little more. __________________ My debut novel, THE FICTION CLASS, won the Washington Irving award from the Westchester Library Association!

06-27-2008, 06:52 AM	#5
MelancholyMan Wear Thick Armor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: There's a rumor we're getting close... Posts: 523	I think I'll just find something else to do... __________________ I am not an animal! I am a writer!

06-30-2008, 07:06 PM	#7
nccreative practical experience, FTW Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 164	The agent for the book I collaborated on... won't even begin sending it out until it's no more than 100k. Same mantra: "They won't even look at a first-time author's manuscript unless it's under 100k words." Ouch. It's being edited, line by line, now with that intent. I'm not a big fan of "them." LOL

07-02-2008, 06:42 AM	#9
MelancholyMan Wear Thick Armor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: There's a rumor we're getting close... Posts: 523	Remember, we're not writing stories, we're writing product. But there are plenty of first times that come in over 100K. Does it make it harder? Hell, I don't know, it doesn't seem to matter what I send in. -MM __________________ I am not an animal! I am a writer!

07-04-2008, 05:00 AM	#12
nccreative practical experience, FTW Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 164	I'll piggyback here with my word count question.... Does an appendix count toward the total word count for a novel? I can't find a definitive answer to that question. Thanks!

06-21-2008, 06:02 PM	#1
MelancholyMan Wear Thick Armor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: There's a rumor we're getting close... Posts: 523	Word Count for Mainstream Fiction ??? Okay, so I've been marketing my work wrong for like, ever. Never to late to change, is it? So what's a good length for mainstream fiction? This has thriller and military elements with a bit of romance. It is sitting at 156K after extensive cutting over a couple of years. Try sending it out or keep cutting? -MM __________________ I am not an animal! I am a writer!

06-23-2008, 08:49 AM	#2
DamaNegra Tlilticcíhuatl Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mexico!! Posts: 6,215	Keep cutting. The 'acceptable' range is somewhere between 70-90k. 100k if you stretch it a bit. __________________

06-25-2008, 04:11 AM	#3
Use Her Name Hot bug on doll action! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,762	Did you change the title of your book too? I still think you should write something else and then have this perfect "finished" book in reserve. I am a fan of writing ahead.

06-30-2008, 07:39 AM	#6
Rena Andra New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: northern earth Posts: 22	The word count thing has my throat in a vice too. I performed what I call a slaughterfest on my manuscript, and brought it down to a tidy 355000 words. I searched for places to slice it into a series, and it can't be done without scraping out necessary elements. I believe it is doomed to wait for three hundred years, when it will be excavated by great horned owls or some damn thing. RA

07-01-2008, 11:05 PM	#8
Rena Andra New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: northern earth Posts: 22	100k...That would be about 28.16 percent of the entire ms. I guess for lack of a better term, this ms is screwed. I went through all 9 of my ms, and find that only three are anywhere near that number. Only one is under 100k, the other two are 145k and 181k. Geez, someone take away the calculator on desktop! RA

07-03-2008, 09:12 AM	#11
Rena Andra New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: northern earth Posts: 22	Well shiat. The way you put that MM, makes my gut sorta enlarge. This particular work was in progress for six years, editing for three. Damn it, but I think I need a drink. It's not that I can't edit, I just don't want to bugger it up. It's bloody well perfect as it is, I just have to find a reasonable readfreak editor to sop it up into their title list! RA

01-30-2009, 12:12 AM	#13
brainstorm77 practical experience, FTW Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 14,242	What about self publishing it? Just for self for yourself to see how that goes... Like through LuLu and just write something else?

03-11-2009, 06:02 AM	#14
JrFFKacy Rookie Firefighter Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 214	355,000 words? Goodness, I'm trying to make my 51,000word manuscript grow up to 70,000, I can't imagine ever being able to write that much! Too bad you can't find a way to cut it up into smaller pieces, it seems a shame to waste so many words! lol. __________________ I love my Border Collie! Remember: Smoke alarms and seatbelts only save lives if you use them!

03-16-2009, 06:29 AM	#15
Lainey Bancroft Cover Me! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: southern Ontario Posts: 613	My first 'epic' was a bloated 235K. If I were so inclined (which I am not at the moment) I could easily half that with everything I've learned the last three years. __________________ Lainey Bancroft

03-16-2009, 06:01 PM	#16
still alive practical experience, FTW Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 211	I'm lurking. But I have to say: As hard as it is to cut; it's harder not to sell! Thank you very much....

03-18-2009, 07:41 AM	#17
wanderlust New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 3	DON'T CUT!! If it took 6 years to write, and you're cutting 2/3 of it- thats 4 years of your life you're looking to cut! Argh.... that's frustrating Can you write another nove instead? 100k limit is for FIRST time authors, right? SO...write a 100k novel, then try submitting this one again..just a thought. Why mess with perfection anyways? It won't be half the novel (literally) it is now... __________________ "Be who you are and say how you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" Dr. Suess

04-30-2009, 10:12 PM	#19
Herman Munster Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: In a house in NZ. Posts: 304	"The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" is a triple trilogy. 3 x 3 volume sets. 9 books. All were over 500 pages and I bought everyone. I have no idea what each word count was or the total, but if you wrote a worthy 355k or 235k words, then chop nothing, look to make them into 90-100k word series. If you can't or won't try to sell that as unpublished authors, then write the 80-100k #2 and call it #1 and publish that b4 you publish your original work. My #1 is 114k, too many words they said. #2 is 84k, and interchangeable as to what you read first. #3 is 104k and needs to have knowledge and scene setting from #1 or #2, preferably both, from my POV anyways!

05-01-2009, 04:16 PM	#20
Ms.rachel figuring it all out Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 87	can you cut several stories from it that can stand alone or be read as a series? just a thought.

07-23-2009, 04:38 AM	#21
barbilarry I just wanna write Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,647	I agree with Ms.Rachel. Could you turn it into a series. It's just something to think about. Good luck. Jane

07-23-2009, 07:53 PM	#22
SarahMacManus practical experience, FTW Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 411	"Thomas Covenant" is not mainstream, it's fantasy. Word counts for fantasy can run up to 120K for first time authors and well over 150K for proven authors. A first time mainstream novel should land around 100K. __________________ “Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.” ~ Anton Chekhov Dreamwalk coming March 14th from Young Rebel Publications

07-24-2009, 03:01 AM	#23
CarolSanDiego practical experience, FTW Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 200	Here's a link to a blog Colleen Lindsay, Agent with FinePrint Literary, did on word counts. Matches up well to everything else I've seen. http://theswivet.blogspot.com/2008/0...el-length.html Whenever I hear about word counts that go way over accepted guidelines, I wonder about story structure and tightness. Maybe putting those works aside until you can look at them with an objective (and hopefully less emotionally attached) eye could help. We all have to kill some of our darlings! Best of luck. __________________ Check out my website! www.carolcallicotte.com Here's my other blog: www.AFrenchAmericanLife.com

07-24-2009, 10:34 PM	#24
JoshPatton Makes people nervous. Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 85	I think perhaps shelving the larger work for now might not be a bad thing. Sure, if you can stand cutting it and you feel that it would be the best introduction of you as a writer to the world, then go ahead. Often I hear other writers saying that hacking apart a manuscript is very cathartic and enriching work. However, it might not be so bad to really sit down and pound out a shorter work. I know made that sound like it was something to do between go to the grocery store and build an addition on your house completely by yourself. Of course, I may also feel this way because I find it difficult to self-edit. I wonder how many authors had their first works published? I mean isn't it usually like the third or fourth novel one writes before you get published? So write those other, shorter books. Then you can sell those older works and the same people who shit on them before will call them "unvarnished, raw, and exciting." Again these are the same people who would see how long your "first novel" is and send it back probably unread. Good luck. Let us know how this turns out! __________________ Joshua M. Patton JoshPatton@aol.com www.joshuampatton.com Last edited by JoshPatton; 07-24-2009 at 11:06 PM. Reason: It sounded stupid. Duh.

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