Beta Readers

1. Avid readers, preferrably of your genre

2. Know something about writing, but not necessarily a writer. Sometimes writers can be a bad thing as betas -- they nitpick things to death, tell the author how they would have written it, etc. But certainly, if the reader knows what to look for... POV issues? Grammar? An ear for dialogue?

3. Ask questions. Be specific about what you want out of your readers. Have questions ready. Don't accept vague statements like "this book rocks, the characters are so good." Ask specific questions: "why is it good? Why do you like/dislike this character?"

4. Don't just focus on the good stuff (they like me, they really like me!) or the bad stuff (I'm a BAD writer). Look at the whole.

EGGammon said:

Anyone have any tips on choosing a good beta reader other than: "no family members or friends?"

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Trial and error. I use family and friends and it's very useful.

EGGammon said:

Anyone have any tips on choosing a good beta reader other than: "no family members or friends?"

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Actually, my mother is my best beta reader. She ruthless and unfailingly honest. She dishes out both praise and critcism and she is always right when she points out something that doesn't quite work. But, she is also an avid reader--which I inherited from her--and she loves my genre(crime/mystery). And through her work, she has more than a passing familiarity with my subject matter.

My other Beta readers are friends who also have the ability to be honest without being cruel. Quite frankly they belong to my target audience so they are perfect for the job, and, are all serious readers.

My advice is to pick people who can be critical and honest without being mean. Sometimes those people are in your pool of friends or family.

I also have the most wonderful best friend in the world. She is like family to me. Hell would freeze over before I let her be a beta reader for me because she doesn't read and she would tell me anything I wanted to hear in regards to my work. And she is my most outspoken friend in other areas--go figure.

When I finish my middle reader, I am going to search out a few strangers, a couple of young girls who love to read, maybe through the library or the middle school in our small town. What better beta readers could I hope for?

maestrowork said:

but not necessarily a writer. Sometimes writers can be a bad thing as betas -- they nitpick things to death, tell the author how they would have written it, etc. But certainly, if the reader knows what to look for... POV issues? Grammar? An ear for dialogue?

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Alot of wisdom there. Even when I look at "Share your work," I'm thinking, "How would I phrase that first paragraph?"

I think writers see that piece of "Unpublished" work as a piece of clay they'd love to mold. "Well, you know..."

Sorry for another musical metaphor. (I can't help myself) But there is such a thing as a "player's player". They are so good, they are obscure. It takes another player to appreciate them, because they aren't mainstream. I was a good player, and I hated bands like "KISS" because I thought their playing was trite. Well, hey, they made something like a Billion Bucks at sucking, so what do I know? Same thing can apply to a writer. They can't see it the same way the popular culture might see it. They are the equivalent of a jazz elitist who can play chords we've never dreamed of, but are bored to tears with stuff that sells like hotcakes.

Nateskate said:

They are the equivalent of a jazz elitist who can play chords we've never dreamed of, but are bored to tears with stuff that sells like hotcakes.

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On the other hand, it's better to be Fripp than Britney.

I think you need to pick someone who is widely read (at least in the genre you're writing in, but hopefully in most of them) and who has good verbal communication skills.

When I do a critique, after reading the piece thoroughly, I first give my general feelings on the theme, character development, and plot, and how they might be improved. Then I do a line by line edit, detailing any bits of prose that stuck out like sore thumbs or that should be expanded on, as well as any grammar and spelling errors.

I have confidence in my opinions and my qualifications to give them, because I am the target audience, a reader. I know what entertains me, and what jars me out of the fictional dream. I'm also aware enough to know that just because something squicks me out doesn't mean it's not well-written and suited to the piece.

Maybe giving your potential beta reader a short story or excerpt to comment on will give you some insight as to how useful they'll be. If they say, "Lol! I luved it! Lol!" run away, fast.

soloset said:

If they say, "Lol! I luved it! Lol!" run away, fast.

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LOL! u r so rite!

EGGammon said:

Anyone have any tips on choosing a good beta reader other than: "no family members or friends?"

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It can be family and friends if they're willing to give you honest feedback. What you don't want is someone who is afraid they'll hurt your feelings.

I've found that some writers can't let other writers have their own style (ie, if something isn't phrased the way that writer would have said it, it's "wrong.") Aaargh!

I don't trust my family members to be 100% honest with me if they have anything negative to say about my writing. They want to be supportive, so I don't think they'd offer actual criticism. The most negative thing my mom has ever said about my short stories (two of the 24-hour stories are posted on my blog) is she didn't understand them. LOL!

Oh, someone with analytical skills would be good.... how about a business analyst who reads a lot of fiction?

I've used both my mom, sister, and close friends and never had any problems with honetsy/criticism. In fact, my absolute best friend will give me undiluted feed-back, and reasons for her opinions, too.

On picking beta readers that are less close to you...Someone with a good grounding in the genre, but it might also be good to have at least one beta reader that doesn't typically go in for your genre. You'll get harsher criticsim that way, but it might be worthwile.
Writer friends have always worked well for me, but this is not a requirement.

And always tell your readers exactly what you're looking for in edits and critiques, and try not to explain the story to them before they read it. Instead, have them make a list of their questions, especially while they're reading, and then check them off as they are answered.

Beta

EGGammon said:

Anyone have any tips on choosing a good beta reader other than: "no family members or friends?" I'm a very paranoid writer (I don't want my writing to end up in the wrong hands) and I need some advice on who I can choose to read some of my stuff. I thought of asking some of my old English teachers from when I was in high school, one in particular who was very strict when grading my writing assignments, but I have no idea whether she would have the time or not. Any suggestions are appreciated.

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I've never liked the notion of beta readers. With my luck, they'd tell me I'm doing something wrong. Then I'd get all nervous, lose confidence, and probably hyperventilate.

I always figured my agent was the best possible beta reader, and if anything gets past her, then an editor gets next crack at it.

I have always used my family and friends first, as a guide as to the progess of the story, does it flow nicely, have i left anything out etc. I find they can do this without them having to give me too much feedback on the story itself, (because honestly, do you really think your mother is going to tell you the story sucks!) I have also joined a book club (a group of people who love books, and get togther once a month to talk about the latest, best, worst books they've read recently. They're not necessarily writers, just people who enjoy reading, and of course the obligatory bottle of wine) and i get my feedback regarding the story from them. I find that because they're not particularly close to me, i receive a more honest response from them.

Maybe get some of your colleagues from work, (if you trust them) friends (not your best friend unless you think you can get an honest response from them) or even your family doctor etc. (mine asked to read mine the first time i'd mentioned i'd written a book)

If you look around, i'm sure you'll find more than enough people who would love to read your work.

People who know the genre and are aware of the basics from grammar to publishers preferences. I generally pick a genre specific e-group, hang around a while chatting and getting to know people, visit their webpages and look at their clips etc. Then I use whatever structure the list has to swap critiques. If the manuscript needs a good shakedown for continuity, clarity, spelling and grammar first I use critiquecircle.com

Veinglory pretty much said it.

Through visiting various writing forums, such as this one, I have found a couple of very good criters and in the last couple of years, I've found that one or two, informed, detailed crits of my work is all I need. Since latching onto these two very fine people, we have become close friends, but first and foremost, our friendship is based on criting each other's work.

And that's another hint. If you find someone you think you would like to have crit your stuff, offer the same in return. Even if you don't feel confident in criting, swapping crits is a good way to learn, and a great way to repay their generosity.

Cheers, Lisa.

You may want to post an excerpt in the SYW thread, too. I posted an excerpt a while back and used the feedback guide me for potential betas. Even if they are doing a break-down crit, it will allow you to get a feel for their preferences. Send those you feel comfortable with a PM and ask them if they'd mind beta reading for you. If you don't want a line-by-line crit, make it known when you send your piece to them.

I also use my mom, step-dad, and husband. (I've never been one for following rules.) Hubby's always fair but honest. He's not a big reader, so I use him as a guide of how interesting my work is. If he finishes, I know the storyline's right on target. Then, I go to mom and step-dad (avid readers) for a more thorough analasis. Finally, I have a few fellow writers take a peak.

My brother and his wife, avid readers, are my best critiquers. They can spot a hole in the plot from fifty feet. My brother's favorite editorial comment: "What in hell are you trying to say."

I also use my mom, step-dad, and husband. (I've never been one for following rules.) Hubby's always fair but honest. He's not a big reader, so I use him as a guide of how interesting my work is. If he finishes, I know the storyline's right on target. Then, I go to mom and step-dad (avid readers) for a more thorough analasis. Finally, I have a few fellow writers take a peak.

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Good point. One of my early betas is not an avid reader (at least not fiction... he reads a lot of non-fiction). And he's a great beta test, because if he takes 3 months to read the book and couldn't finish it... I know I have a problem.