David Copperfield

Yes. It's a staple of high school and college reading lists in the US, Canada, and the UK (and perhaps Australia and New Zealand as well).

And the "show, don't tell" philosophy wasn't one that novelists subscribed to in the 19th century. Having the narrator do a lot of telling was considered to be good style in those days (as opposed to today, when it's looked down upon).

1) Dickens got paid by the word. Therefore this is not much short Dickens.

2) Telling rather than showing was far more common in the pre-cinematic era.

It wasn't just that it was more common--it was considered BETTER style to do a lot of telling than to focus mostly on showing at that time.

Literary style, like styles of all kinds, changes a lot through the centuries.

ClaudiaGray said:

2) Telling rather than showing was far more common in the pre-cinematic era.

Click to expand...

Yup. Cinema changed literature a lot. Books can still do a lot more telling than cinema can, but for the most part, readers want to be "in the moment."

Dickens may seem old fashioned to today's readers, but if I had one tenth his ability to bring a character or place to life, I'd consider myself a writer.

[We sailed] among the tiers of shipping, in and out, avoiding rusty chain-cables, frayed hempen hawsers and bobbing buoys, scattering floating chips of wood and shaving, cleaving floating scum of coal, in and out, hammers going in ship-builders' yards, saws going at timber, clashing engines going at things unknown, pumps going in leaky ships, ships going out to sea, and unintelligible sea-creatures roaring curses, in and out….

Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

rugcat said:

Dickens may seem old fashioned to today's readers, but if I had one tenth his ability to bring a character or place to life, I'd consider myself a writer.

[We sailed] among the tiers of shipping, in and out, avoiding rusty chain-cables, frayed hempen hawsers and bobbing buoys, scattering floating chips of wood and shaving, cleaving floating scum of coal, in and out, hammers going in ship-builders' yards, saws going at timber, clashing engines going at things unknown, pumps going in leaky ships, ships going out to sea, and unintelligible sea-creatures roaring curses, in and out….

Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

Click to expand...

Nice alliterations: chain-cables, hempen hawsers, and bobbling buoys.

ClaudiaGray said:

1) Dickens got paid by the word. Therefore this is not much short Dickens.

Click to expand...

Nearly all of Dickens' work was published as serials in magazines, and they demanded a certain length and format, often referred to as a "triple-decker", as I recall. Thus, you get the hefty 900-page tomes in today's printing format. Thackeray, George Eliot and many lesser, now-forgotten writers likewise concocted tales of similar length.

Not all Victorian writers were as prolix with words as Dickens was. If you'd like to read some with styles that seem a little more "modern", you might try Dickens' close friend Wilkie Collins, or the Irish novelist J.S. LeFanu.

caw

while doing time in Siberia, Dostoyevsky read this phenomenal novel by Dickens, in addition to the bible.

blacbird said:

Not all Victorian writers were as prolix with words as Dickens was. If you'd like to read some with styles that seem a little more "modern", you might try Dickens' close friend Wilkie Collins, or the Irish novelist J.S. LeFanu.

caw

Click to expand...

My favorite more "modern" Victorian is Anthony Trollope. Some passages sound more old-fashioned, but some could come out of a (very good) 21st century book.

My current nightmare in terms of length is Les Miserables. It runs along just fine... and then we take a 60 page detour to describe the scene of the battle of waterloo, which just barely touches on the actual story line if you squint just right and turn your head to the side. I've taken to skipping sections to get back to the main story.

ClaudiaGray said:

My favorite more "modern" Victorian is Anthony Trollope. Some passages sound more old-fashioned, but some could come out of a (very good) 21st century book.

Click to expand...

Trollope does indeed rock. He does a lot of telling in that gently wry to trenchant narrative voice of his, but it's like listening to an old friend who's also a great and insightful gossip.

Take the trouble to learn the literary "dialect" of the great 19th century writers: Trollope, Dickens, Eliot, Austen, Hardy, Melville, Hawthorne, Twain, and many others. Why just swim on the surface of literature when you can scuba through all the layers of time? There are amazing creatures and treasures on every level.

So this isn't about writing novels, either, really. Moving to the book club.

Great authors break all the rules and are brilliant because of it.

Dickens also has a great knack for naming characters.

Shar-Jan said:

Great authors break all the rules

Click to expand...

Dickens wasn't breaking any rules. "Show, don't tell" is a very recent rule. It was not the rule in his day.

I love Dickens. One of my favourite authors. Great Expectations is on my once a year reading list. He was a champion in his day and I don't think his books have been harmed any by the new 'show, don't tell' attitude. When you know you're reading from another era--or, for me, anyway--you allow for the vastly different styles and trends. I adore his sense of craft. I don't care to take books out of one era and try to wedge them into the standards of another. I enjoy them for what they accomplished in their time and what they are still accomplishing in ours. Dwayne...ignore the longness of the book and just enjoy the unfolding. He told in an era where told was commonplace--expected. He's a great teller.

IceCreamEmpress said:

Dickens wasn't breaking any rules. "Show, don't tell" is a very recent rule. It was not the rule in his day.

Click to expand...

I'll be honest, I've never read any Dickens. He's on after Dostoyevski and Kafka (Again). I know a fair bit about his style though, he was quite a break from his contemporaries.

On the reading list at the moment is "The Darkest Streets" which is a book about one of London's worst slums (and good god is that depressing stuff). I want to get into that atmosphere before reading him.

I've seen the old 1950's great expectations, and a few other TV adaptations. I know he's better than even them. And I know I'll love them, I'm saving them for a holiday or something, time to savour them properly.

If you do read Expectations and like it...it would be worthwhile checking out Anne Rice's Feast of All Saints. Also one of my favs. (NOTHING TO DO WITH VAMPIRES) She is a huge fan of Great Expectations and I see it in this book. It's set in New Orleans and revolves around the free black community. Marcel Ste. Marie is the main character who sets out on a journey to find himself...very Great Expectations-ish.

Sorry for the derail. I always equate those two books. (It's a shame that even the author herself thinks little of that book...I've had the conversation with her, trying to convince her how wonderful it is. I think it could be taught in schools. All she wanted to talk about was vampires. She actually said, "Marcel who?")

Remember, too, back before the early twentieth century--before radio and television--books were read out loud to family members gathered in the parlor. Or to one in a sick bed. As noted by rugcat and maestrowork, in Great Expectations (as in many other novels written before our time) alliteration abounded. Read it aloud and you can hear the way the words flow. It captured the attention of the those listening to the reader.

Funny. I'm reading Bleak House right now. 990 pages! It's difficult, obviously, to keep all the characters and events in my mind. I'm about 400 pages into it and I'm running into memory problems. Why is she happy to see him? Who's that guy again? Why does this guy not like that guy? I have to flip back 200 pages to find the relevant paragraph that'll give me a clue.

I'm reading this after having finished HARD TIMES, which was about 275 pages. He does have some other shorter works, so he didn't always write for $ or the audience's desire for long works. But, yeah, mostly he did.

-Where should I start with Trollope's huge oeuvre? I have a copy of Doctor Thorne around. Is that a good place to start? Which is generally considered his best?

tomber said:

-Where should I start with Trollope's huge oeuvre? I have a copy of Doctor Thorne around. Is that a good place to start? Which is generally considered his best?

Click to expand...

I haven't gotten to Doctor Thorne yet -- this is one of the problems/joys of discovering an incredibly prolific author. I would guess you can begin anywhere, but I started with the first in the Palliser novels, Can You Forgive Her?, which is utterly brilliant. I just finished Phineas Redux and am excited to finish that series.

*victorian novel geek-out alert*

ClaudiaGray said:

1) Dickens got paid by the word. Therefore this is not much short Dickens.

Click to expand...

er...

Dickens got paid by the page, not the word (slightly different), and he had to write in--if I recall correctly--30 page chunks. (you can sometimes tell how long each of the page-chunks were b/c of where there are major cliffhangers.)

"paid by the word" is a shorthand that bugged the heck out of my Dickens professor (yes, I took an entire class ). so in her honor I try to spread the gospel.

a shorter Dickens, for anyone who's interested, is Hard Times.

blacbird said:

Not all Victorian writers were as prolix with words as Dickens was. If you'd like to read some with styles that seem a little more "modern", you might try Dickens' close friend Wilkie Collins, or the Irish novelist J.S. LeFanu.

caw

Click to expand...

Wilkie FTW

seriously, read the Woman in White. and The Moonstone.

Shar-Jan said:

Dickens also has a great knack for naming characters.

Click to expand...

Mr. Micawber!

tomber said:

-Where should I start with Trollope's huge oeuvre? I have a copy of Doctor Thorne around. Is that a good place to start? Which is generally considered his best?

Click to expand...

ClaudiaGray said:

I haven't gotten to Doctor Thorne yet -- this is one of the problems/joys of discovering an incredibly prolific author. I would guess you can begin anywhere, but I started with the first in the Palliser novels, Can You Forgive Her?, which is utterly brilliant. I just finished Phineas Redux and am excited to finish that series.

Click to expand...

DEFINITELY READ THE PALLISER NOVELS! and then watch the 1970s miniseries which kicked so much ass. (ETA 1980s? one of those olden-times of scratchy tv)

and THEN read the series that starts with The Warden (it's more church politics, while the Pallisers are more politics-politics). bonus: there's a BBC miniseries (Barchester Towers) that has Alan Rickman and Nigel Hawthorne and Donald Pleasance and Susan Hampshire. you should watch that even if you don't read the books, b/c it has my favorite Alan Rickman performance.

Shar-Jan said:

On the reading list at the moment is "The Darkest Streets" which is a book about one of London's worst slums (and good god is that depressing stuff).

Click to expand...

sounds like an interesting book. Tried googling it to no avail. Got an author for it?

No. Quit your job. THEN:

~grace~ said:

DEFINITELY READ THE PALLISER NOVELS! and then watch the 1970s miniseries which kicked so much ass. (ETA 1980s? one of those olden-times of scratchy tv)

and THEN read the series that starts with The Warden (it's more church politics, while the Pallisers are more politics-politics). bonus: there's a BBC miniseries (Barchester Towers) that has Alan Rickman and Nigel Hawthorne and Donald Pleasance and Susan Hampshire. you should watch that even if you don't read the books, b/c it has my favorite Alan Rickman performance.

Click to expand...

Tomber, I'm sure it is possible to read Trollope AND hold down a job. It must be. He wrote them with a full-time job, so we ought to be able to read them with one, right?