Is there a middle ground between dark and light-hearted?

C.J. Rockwell · Sep 19, 2008

Or to put another way-

Can you be light-hearted without being naïve?

With so many dark natured titles monopolizing the sales charts, I'm wondering if there's still interest for something more light-hearted, while still being emotionally honest. Don't get me wrong, sometimes you need something dark to keep things from getting too fluffy and sugary, but sometimes you've got to laugh too!

From what I've noticed at least, once you move beyond PBs and chapter books, it's tough finding great "Current" books in the MG and YA camp that aren't dripping in undertones of death, corruption, terminally ill friends and/or family members, etc. Note: I don't mean to imply these kinds of stories aren't worth reading or anything like that. No grudges, honest. After all, some of my favorites books had a dark edge to them.

My stories seem to fall somewhere in the middle of being light-hearted, yet they may have some dark or bittersweet moments mixed in. The story I'm working on now is much darker than anything I've ever done before, but it's nowhere near the level of Lemony Snicket's A series of unfortunate events for example.

While I want to handle situations realistically and honestly, I want to be careful that it's not so dark that it's morbidly depressing, while still staying true to what the story requires. In high school there were writers I avoided like the plague, not because they didn't interest me, but because I knew the majority of the books they did were very dark.

Has anyone else had this problem, or felt the way I do? Any insight or funny stories you can impart would be helpful.

Exir · Sep 20, 2008

I feel that the change in tone of books isn't happening just in the MG sector -- it is a general trend in publishing, and it reflects the growing pessimism of western society in general.

But I digress. I think it is clearly possible to mix dark- and light-hearted styles. When I was working on my work in progress, for a moment I wanted to portray an orphan with a very very pessimistic and depressed attitude, and I kept having unpleasant things happen to him. However, after I showed it to my sisters, they said, "Why would I want to get myself depressed?"

So, I immediately realized what the problem is. Nobody likes to watch a character become more and more depressed, but we must be careful not to go the other extreme and start having every stranger the character sort things out for him.

So I settled on a character who regards his situation and fortune with humor, yet also is clearly unsatisfied with where he is, so there will be a conflict that drives the story forwards. And I made sure he got into some humorous situations.

C.J. Rockwell · Sep 20, 2008

Exir said:
I feel that the change in tone of books isn't happening just in the MG sector -- it is a general trend in publishing, and it reflects the growing pessimism of western society in general..

Thank you, I was beginning to wonder if I was just being paranoid again.

I had to look up pessimism to be sure I rememberd what it meant. It was startling to read. Both definitions are so much harsher than I expected.

I'm often told by people in my offline life that I someimes overemphasize the neagtive, so I guess my writing in part is my way of being more upbeat about things, while still being honest.

This is why I'm not a newshoud like my grandma. No matter how much pain, suffering, and anguish she sees on CNN, she doesn't cave.

I, on the other hand get so saddened by things in current events that it sometimes takes days before I feel normal again. Or I become enraged when I hear awful (but sadly true) stories about the cruel, callous things people are capable of, to the point I want to scream bloody murder and bang head against the wall.

If I wrote stories of that same magnitude, I'd be on edge all the time and lose my sense of joy, "not for me" as my grandma would say. That's why I greatly respect those who do write about those tough issues, and maintain even an ounce of sanity, whether the people involved are real or made up. Someday though, I hope some of my grandma's resilent qulaties will rub off on me, even if it's only a small chunk.

Exir said:
But I digress. I think it is clearly possible to mix dark- and light-hearted styles. When I was working on my work in progress, for a moment I wanted to portray an orphan with a very very pessimistic and depressed attitude, and I kept having unpleasant things happen to him. However, after I showed it to my sisters, they said, "Why would I want to get myself depressed?"

So, I immediately realized what the problem is. Nobody likes to watch a character become more and more depressed, but we must be careful not to go the other extreme and start having every stranger the character sort things out for him.

So I settled on a character who regards his situation and fortune with humor, yet also is clearly unsatisfied with where he is, so there will be a conflict that drives the story forwards. And I made sure he got into some humorous situations.

Thanks for sharing your experience, I'm so glad it's not just me who's had this problem.

Ken · Sep 20, 2008

I hear what you're saying. It isn't the darkness that bugs me but the graphic way it's handled, with all the gory details laid out in full splendor. It's suffidient for an author to tell me that their MC got a gash on their leg as a result of grappling with a wolverine. I don't need to have an in depth description of the blood oozing out of the wound and the veins and bone protruding through the skin, which is why I stick to the old books, by Jean Craighead George and the like

// Good luck with your book and follow your own compass.

regdog · Sep 20, 2008

I agree that many books for middle grade have dark elements. The book Jumanji and the other books that author wrote are rather mean spirited and dark. I see nothing wrong with having light hearted books without parents dying, killer crocodiles, lions or manical beings

Toothpaste · Sep 20, 2008

Yes, yes there is. Personally I consider my stories such. I do have some death in them yes, but they are these sweeping adventures and need such stakes. I think what truly makes a book dark is the tone with which they are told, and the amount of hope in them and at the end. I have always, despite everything, had hope in my life, and I just can't be cynical towards it. If you want to check out Alex, I would be honoured.

There are light books, there are dark books. There are books in between. In fact Beach Bunny and I got into a bit of a misunderstanding the other day over just such a thing, we should get her to make her list of light books again, it was a good one.

But, surely you knew the answer was going to be "yes" right? You didn't think someone was going to come in here and say, "No absolutely not. Either go dark or go home." I mean you do you know you can write anything so long as you do it well, right? I really really think these questions are not serving you well, and if you truly did not know the answer would be yes, then you need to read some more books. Because in the end anyone can write anything, as long as you do it well. Who would have thought a conspiracy novel about Jesus was going to be a bestseller at a time when religion is a bit of a difficult topic to discuss in polite society and when conspiracy novels were considered all but done with (not saying he did it well, just saying that if Dan Brown came here and asked if such a book was hot or not, probably a lot of people on this board would have said no)?

There is no such thing as a stupid question, but I think the act of asking questions for you is not doing you any favours at the moment. Maybe it's time to step away from the internet and just write the story you want to write and come back when it's time for some beta readers.

But to answer your question again. Yes. Of course.

C.J. Rockwell · Sep 20, 2008

Once again Toothpaste, you're right. I posted this before I read your reply to my post in Brittnimae's thread. I was going to delete it after reading your reply, but I figured it was a good thread that would spark some good conversation.

I've been able to write a lof in the last few weeks despite my frequenting this forum. I will say this much though, at some point before the year is out I plan to finish and fine tune my YA novel.

I'm also going to trust myself more and have confidence that what I like can connect with others, and no one has to die if that's not what the story requires.

But as I said before, sometimes you need to vent a little.

Danthia · Sep 20, 2008

I suspect the darker stories now are the aftermath of the very successful darker novels of a few years ago. The Series of Unfortunate Events and whatnot. Dark was suddenly okay for kids.

Write what you love. If it's a great story it'll sell.

A reader usually doesn't go into the bookstore thinking, "I want a gritty dark story," they go in thinking "I want to find a great book." If they like dark and gritty they'll be drawn to those, but if they just want a good story they'll pick up whatever strikes them.

MsJudy · Sep 20, 2008

"Dark" is a way of making sure the stakes are desperately high. Kids today are far more savvy than previous generations. They learn about things at younger ages. So they can handle more intensity in their stories than in previous generations. (I feel sorry for the parents who want to shelter their children these days. It's getting harder and harder to do.)

That said, it all comes down to individual writers with individual styles and visions. I would say you can't get much darker than Roald Dahl, if you really look at his books and how he portrays the adult world. (I don't think he liked us very much...) And you can't get much lighter than Kate DiCamillo's Tale of Despereaux, which is a recent Newbery winner. Harry Potter and Lemony Snickett are dark, certainly. I would say the trend in kid's fantasy is generally dark, and the older the target reader is, the gloomier it tends to be. But that is because those authors are striving for honesty, and their readers live in a tense and difficult world right now.

C.J. Rockwell · Sep 20, 2008

JudScotKev said:
"Dark" is a way of making sure the stakes are desperately high. Kids today are far more savvy than previous generations. They learn about things at younger ages. So they can handle more intensity in their stories than in previous generations. (I feel sorry for the parents who want to shelter their children these days. It's getting harder and harder to do.)
I guess I was more of a chicken in that way. I probably was the only kid who didn't want to sneak into R rated movies. The violence was too graphic, among other things.

That said, it all comes down to individual writers with individual styles and visions. I would say you can't get much darker than Roald Dahl, if you really look at his books and how he portrays the adult world. (I don't think he liked us very much...) And you can't get much lighter than Kate DiCamillo's Tale of Despereaux, which is a recent Newbery winner. Harry Potter and Lemony Snickett are dark, certainly. I would say the trend in kid's fantasy is generally dark, and the older the target reader is, the gloomier it tends to be. But that is because those authors are striving for honesty, and their readers live in a tense and difficult world right now.

I certainly wouldn't deny that, it gets crazier every year. I want to protray things honestly and not sugarcoat things. I just feel that sometimes in an effort to be honest, we forget that while life can be bittersweet sometimes, we don't live in a soap opera.

We all have different comfort levels as writers, and while one writer will cross certain lines, others wouldn't.

I guess the main reason this bothers me is because I often wonder if I have blinders on. Then I read writers that feel the way I do about books in that they can be honest, while still being fun.

That's why I have to remind myself, "I know all too well that living life today has it's challenges, but with every thing that goes wrong, some things go right." I think in an effort to portray the "bitter truths" the negative is overplayed just a little too much.

Because I know my tendencies for being too sugary, I guess all I want is a balance, and it seems when I find that balance, something in the writing world shakes my belief in that balance.

I don't want to be so fluffy that it's ridiculous. I also don't want to lose touch with the often heartbreaking things people of all ages and walks of life have to deal with.

But while I want my characters to be challenged, to have their flaws and fobiles, and to perservere through sadness and hardship, I want readers to feel good and dare I say, happy, after reading one of my stories. If they learn something, that's great, but I want to entertain, and if reallly dark stories give you that, don't mind me. I really have no deep-seeded qualm, honest.

Some of my favorites witers are those that do things I'd never do in terms of tone and feel. Many writers are darker than me, quite a few are grosser then me, and that's okay.

Now I'm okay, really I am, and I can follow my own path, with no more wavering!

C.J.

P.S. Has anyone read any books in Ann Martin's Main Street series. I'm reading one of them now and while it's a bit sad in places, it never feels like it needs to depress you in the serious scenes.

I knew from the first two pages that it was a story about characters that are real, authentic and honest, and can be honest about tough stuff without having a soap oprea complex.

P.P.S. Roald Dahl, I don't know your history, but know this, wherever you are in the afterlife-

Not all adults are evil, okay?

Pat Waldron · Sep 21, 2008

Is there a middle ground between dark and light-hearted? Yes. It's called B.O.R.I.N.G.

There was a role-playing game a while back, like Dungeons and Dragons, and there was one compendium of monsters that were all composites. There were werewolf/demon/vampires. Zombie/dragon/elfs and so on. The permutations were just as creative, often taking an entirely different form. The idea is to overpower the competition. The tendency was towards having just as complicated solutions to overcoming these adversaries. They also present more interesting protagonists.

On the flip side, description and hyperbole overcomes any lack of a nifty monster combination idea. A single zombie could terrorize the entire world. This is unlike current movies where a hero can often destroy a dozen villains with each sweep of his switchblade.

A second thought, is maybe what you want is structure? Textbook publishers need stories that are timely, engaging and uncontroversial. It is very structured format, with little room for death, mayhem and supernatural.

Pat Waldron · Sep 21, 2008

I just remembered a story I wrote a while back about a supernatural healer. It was set in a very dark medieval world and the premise was about a necromancer who achieved the highest powers. Necromancers are always portrayed as evil, but the highest level of the magic of controlling death would be the power of resurrection. On the level of the protagonist, the power to resurrect a loved one would overcome their evil ways. The story started reading like a religious text, with faith, love, and forgiveness overcoming impossible odds. I ditched it thinking that such a story would be impossible to sell. A story like this is the direct opposite of the trend in dark stories. There seems to be an acceptance of supernatural in the "horror" genre, but "healer" stories are limited to angels and "light-hearted" stuff.

C.J. Rockwell · Sep 21, 2008

Patrick Bhaldwraithe said:
There was a role-playing game a while back, like Dungeons and Dragons, and there was one compendium of monsters that were all composites. There were werewolf/demon/vampires. Zombie/dragon/elfs and so on. The permutations were just as creative, often taking an entirely different form. The idea is to overpower the competition. The tendency was towards having just as complicated solutions to overcoming these adversaries. They also present more interesting protagonists.

On the flip side, description and hyperbole overcomes any lack of a nifty monster combination idea. A single zombie could terrorize the entire world. This is unlike current movies where a hero can often destroy a dozen villains with each sweep of his switchblade.

A second thought, is maybe what you want is structure? Textbook publishers need stories that are timely, engaging and uncontroversial. It is very structured format, with little room for death, mayhem and supernatural.

I guess I follow you, I think. But if you thnk I would enjoy writing textbooks as opposed to novels, you've missed my point entirely. I'm not an acedemic writer at all, it's hard find nonfiction books that interest me in general.

I just feel there's a difference between having gripping conflict in a story, and portraying characters realistically, as opposed to feeling the need to tinge everything in such darkness in order to keep it real.

Obviously there are many books where a dark nature is suitable.

My point of posting this thread was not to say that anything dark is bad, I'm nowhere near that prudent!

I like T. Jefferson Parker, and he often tackles very dark issues. But his writing is so inviting, and the characters so painfully honest, I'm willing to go into the darkness to read something of his.

Many books and authors do that for me. But when it comes to my own writing, there are lines I won't cross, at least at this point in my writing life.

JLCwrites · Sep 21, 2008

I think it is possible to have a thrilling adventure without 'the dark side'. I personally like to write things that make me feel good, and are fun to write. I don't really spend too much time looking at 'trends', nor to I place too much importance on them. A great example... Croc shoes... I think they are the ugliest thing everybody seems to want to wear. :Shrug:

You won't find a pair in my closet! The same goes for writing. If I don't like the trend... I wont be a part of it. I don't have to read it either.

C.J. Rockwell · Sep 21, 2008

TurkeyLurkey said:
I think it is possible to have a thrilling adventure without 'the dark side'. I personally like to write things that make me feel good, and are fun to write. I don't really spend too much time looking at 'trends', nor to I place too much importance on them. A great example... Croc shoes... I think they are the ugliest thing everybody seems to want to wear. You won't find a pair in my closet! The same goes for writing. If I don't like the trend... I wont be a part of it. I don't have to read it either.

I agree completely!

If I had known this thread would cause all this misunderstanding I never would've posted it.

I'm still learning how to trust myself and that what I write can be real, honest and meaningful without having to bleak if that's not what the story requires.

I love all types of books, be they light or dark. I just wonder sometimes if my stories can resonate and be feel real without them being bleak.

I believe they do, and I'll keep believing that.

Is there a middle ground between dark and light-hearted?

C.J. Rockwell

Not so new, really

Exir

Out of the cradle endlessly rocking

C.J. Rockwell

Not so new, really

Ken

regdog

The Scavengers

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

C.J. Rockwell

Not so new, really

Danthia

MsJudy

C.J. Rockwell

Not so new, really

Pat Waldron

Pat Waldron

C.J. Rockwell

Not so new, really

JLCwrites

C.J. Rockwell

Not so new, really