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Old 12-19-2011, 05:30 AM   #12901
fourlittlebees
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fourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsfourlittlebees is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by triceretops View Post
Yes, a toast to all us bruised long-haulers who've suffered for the craft, learned a thing or two and kept on track down the lonely highway--that road with a tiny light at the end of it.
You see a light?

:: tosses MS at hellhounds to hopefully distract them from triceratops' legs ::
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:47 AM   #12902
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Cricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCricket18 is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
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Originally Posted by kellion92 View Post
*toasts Filligree's 2000th with a festive maggnog*
Quote:
Originally Posted by triceretops View Post
Yes, a toast to all us bruised long-haulers who've suffered for the craft, learned a thing or two and kept on track down the lonely highway--that road with a tiny light at the end of it.
Mmmm...maggnog. Here, here! And congrats on 2k Filligree.

Only in the Pit would I notice there are rats in a positive word.

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You see a light?
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:19 AM   #12903
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kellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Hey, that's a way to throw off the hellhounds, Cricket. Everyone is afraid of cong-rats: (here comes my favorite photo again)
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:47 AM   #12904
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LOL! Where do you find this stuff, Red? Hey, does she have a peg leg because the rats have knawed off her foot?
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:02 PM   #12905
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K. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsK. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsK. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsK. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsK. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsK. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsK. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsK. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsK. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsK. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsK. Taylor is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
The baby's holding a bottle. Cuz Honest Lou wants to help you keep rats out of cribs, LOL.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:05 PM   #12906
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Oh, sorry it's so big! It's from my iPhone. It's my photo of the sign for Honest Lou's exterminators in West Philly. I always wanted a picture but I felt weird about it until I was taking some photos of an art installation next door, so why not?

My mind always fills in "guaranteed to kill them first (before they kill your baby)," rather than the more actual "guaranteed to kill them first before they get out of control." And now when I drive by, I always slow down so the kids can see the "rat baby."
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:46 PM   #12907
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JennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJennW is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
OMG Kell that is... disturbing, LOL.

Hi to all in the pit!
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:53 PM   #12908
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I can't believe I didn't notice the peg leg in the picture.

*waves at Jenn*

here's one of the bad things about the internet-bad advice from someone who is dead keeps getting passed around. On another forum, someone is quoting Charles Bukowski, a writer/screenwriter from the 60s and 70s. This guy put out a list for writers that includes 1) writers shouldn't ask other writers to read their works, 2) if it takes you a long time to write, you shouldn't be doing it and 3) if you have to revise, you shouldn't be doing it. There are many more bits of antiwisdom, but that was enough to make my head want to explode

ARGH!!!
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:25 PM   #12909
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Mornin', Pit

Hey, Jenn

LOL, Kell
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:35 PM   #12910
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All that advice Flaubert gave to de Maupassant . . .rubbish?

I saw a great cartoon once. It's late at night and a guy is typing furiously. His wife says something like, "Are you coming to bed?" He keeps typing and says, "I can't. This is important. Someone on the Internet is wrong."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarie View Post
I can't believe I didn't notice the peg leg in the picture.

*waves at Jenn*

here's one of the bad things about the internet-bad advice from someone who is dead keeps getting passed around. On another forum, someone is quoting Charles Bukowski, a writer/screenwriter from the 60s and 70s. This guy put out a list for writers that includes 1) writers shouldn't ask other writers to read their works, 2) if it takes you a long time to write, you shouldn't be doing it and 3) if you have to revise, you shouldn't be doing it. There are many more bits of antiwisdom, but that was enough to make my head want to explode

ARGH!!!
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:48 PM   #12911
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Yes, because I'm sure we can all name a handful of Bukowski's work that we utterly adore and strive to equal in excellence ...
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:53 PM   #12912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScylla View Post
Yes, because I'm sure we can all name a handful of Bukowski's work that we utterly adore and strive to equal in excellence ...
I've never heard of him, but that doesn't mean much. Does anyone know him? I can't figure out if he isn't well-known, why someone bothered to track down his advice.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:54 PM   #12913
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I can't name one thing by him that I would recommend to anyone. My ex-husband liked him, but I thought he was kind of cheap knock-off cross between Burroughs and Thompson. Meh.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:46 PM   #12914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScylla View Post
Yes, because I'm sure we can all name a handful of Bukowski's work that we utterly adore and strive to equal in excellence ...
Does it make me uncultured because I don't know who the hell Bukowski is?

I see that name and I think of Animal House.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:50 PM   #12915
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Morning Pit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellion92 View Post
*toasts Filligree's 2000th with a festive maggnog*
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by triceretops View Post
Yes, a toast to all us bruised long-haulers who've suffered for the craft, learned a thing or two and kept on track down the lonely highway--that road with a tiny light at the end of it.
+1 but, what light?

Four day work week. Asked the eight ball if I'd get through it and got this response...

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Old 12-19-2011, 07:54 PM   #12916
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Quote:
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Does it make me uncultured because I don't know who the hell Bukowski is?

I see that name and I think of Animal House.
That was essentially my point. Bukowski is pretty well a literary nobody. At least, nobody you'd want to take writing advice from.
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:59 PM   #12917
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Ooooo...did somebody say maggnog?
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:13 PM   #12918
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Kell, ewww, very disturbing *shudders*

Snappy, figures...LOL
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:16 PM   #12919
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Is it too early for bourbon-spiked maggnog? It's going to be one of those days.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:19 PM   #12920
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Is it too early for bourbon-spiked maggnog? It's going to be one of those days.
It's never too early...especially on those days
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:22 PM   #12921
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Pass the maggnog, please
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:42 PM   #12922
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Hi, everyone. This is some advice for people thinking about repping themselves.

In response to questions I'm getting, may I post this?

No matter what the guidelines say, choose carefully which editor you think is best and send that editor a letter (best probably is letter + sample chapters + synopsis if it's a first book.)

I'm off to a slow start because last June I pretty much followed guidelines if a house allowed unagented subs. I did what they said. Nothing happened, or sometimes I got form rejects. So after 5 months of nothing, I researched editor names and now I'm getting resposes to send the book from the same places which ignored me when I followed the guidelines. (That's because thousands of people are following the guidelines. Sheep in a herd don't stand out from one another.)

People have said, "If I can't find an agent, I'll try publishers open to unagened submissions."

NOOOOOO. Almost all of them say they're not open.

Other people have asked me, "Which editors are open to unagented submissions?"

Answer: None of them and all of them. Most editors can't resist reading a well-written letter addressed directly to them. If they like your story, they're suddenly open to unagented subs.

My last plea: Before you contact editors directly, make sure your letter and book are professional quality. I say this because if they start getting lots of stuff not ready, this may not work anymore.

ETA: standard disclaimer: Of course, someone out there got published by following the guidelines and the'll pop in and tell me I'm wrong. I'm telling you my experiences. Also, don't think this is easy. Also, I believe it's a numbers game. If you have a publishable book, it's a matter of sticking with it.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:35 PM   #12923
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On the other subject, I've never heard of Bukowski either.

My first thought (after what stupid advice -- writers have always learned by getting advice from more established writers) so anyway, after thinking how stupid, my first thought was to wonder why he doesn't like feeback from other writers.

My best reader (lifetime best friend who reads everythign I've written) is not a writer and part of what makes her advice so good is she reads like a reader, and she's smart and insightful. She always knows where a story goes off the rails. She isn't good at telling me how to fix the problem.

I've always thought that the most dangerous critic is one who knows just a little bit, who is applying a few rules. I've thought it better for the beta reader to be a really good writer -- or not a writer at all. Better not to know the basic rules -- or be able to think past them. Did that make any sense?

What he's saying pretty much makes writing classes worthless because isn't the teacher usually a writer?
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:02 PM   #12924
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Quote:
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I've always thought that the most dangerous critic is one who knows just a little bit, who is applying a few rules. I've thought it better for the beta reader to be a really good writer -- or not a writer at all. Better not to know the basic rules -- or be able to think past them. Did that make any sense?
It made perfect sense to me. I think it's something I've seen with query letters on another forum where I used to post them. People who knew the basic "rules" but didn't really read the query past those. When you get in those places, there's lots of picking apart for the sake of picking apart rather than furthering.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:07 PM   #12925
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Oops Sorry Kell. I don't know why I thought that pic was from Red. Shows how alert I was yesterday.

I think Bukowski was a raging alcoholic. His writing was rather dark if I recall.
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