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Old 01-11-2011, 06:28 PM   #2301
kellion92
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kellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
I don't know -- I think an R always comes down to that old bugbear, the agent "didn't love it enough." If he gives feedback, that means he loved it enough to try to be helpful to the writer, but he feels that fixing the problems won't make him love it more.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:35 PM   #2302
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ink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Yeah, I was just explaining my situation because the revisions weren't really possible.

In general, I agree with Kellion again. I'm pretty sure the more work an agent thinks something needs, the more they have to love the story to want to put in the effort. In most cases, I doubt it's worth their time/effort. Agents probably see a lot that they liked, that they'd even enjoy reading if they'd bought it, but to really work to sell a book (especially if revisions are required), they have to adore it.

I like a lot of books. But few and far between blow me away, so I can see why agents don't bother working with most.

Still, it sucks for us.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:42 PM   #2303
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Still, it sucks for us. <- exactly.

Just knowing writing a book that's 'good' isn't quite enough, but I'm going to have to blow someone away...well it makes me want to hit the maggot bong.

Perhaps that's where I get confused a little on the whole 'this is a business' mantra of agents....if one needs to be sure something will sell as well as be blown away (And I agree that many agents do and I can see why)...I donno that just doesn't feel like a straight 'business' decision to me if an agent turns down something they are sure will sell but won't take on 'cause they aren't moved enough...

I'm rambling I know but 'marketable' and 'it blew me away' can be two different things.

*goes to corner to hit maggot bong and ponder things that don't deserve to be pondered as they will only make Soul crazy and have no real answer anyway*
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:31 PM   #2304
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I agree about the "marketable" and "blew me away" distinctions. Sometimes I read books that are kind of meh. I might get why people buy and like them, but it's hard to believe that very knowledgeable publishing industry who read hundreds of books would be blown away. Their decision was more calculating.

Let's say you need a score of 100 points to get picked up. Sometimes 80 points are "marketability" and 20 are "blew agent away." Other times you might have 80 "blew agent away" points, but if it's a tricky book, you need another 20 marketability points or the agent will give you one of those "I love it but I don't think I can sell it."

Eh, who knows. If we knew, we wouldn't be in the Pit.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:51 PM   #2305
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RedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsRedScylla is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Good morning, fellow Pitizens. Welcome to yet another crap day. Urgh.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:03 PM   #2306
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ink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Another full R, another reason. Whatever. I can't even get consistent feedback on why no one wants this thing.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:08 PM   #2307
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SteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
{{{Red}}}

{{{Ink}}}
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:15 PM   #2308
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soulcascade is a candidate for sainthoodsoulcascade is a candidate for sainthoodsoulcascade is a candidate for sainthoodsoulcascade is a candidate for sainthoodsoulcascade is a candidate for sainthoodsoulcascade is a candidate for sainthoodsoulcascade is a candidate for sainthoodsoulcascade is a candidate for sainthood
{{Ink}} Frigging random pass excuses....

Kellion, as always you are the master of the analogy Seriously though, that example helped make things a *little* clearer.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:30 PM   #2309
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kellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentskellion92 is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Ink, I'm so sorry. I'm so frustrated for you -- nobody works harder AND you're talented too. This is ridiculous.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:32 PM   #2310
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Vandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsVandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsVandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsVandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsVandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsVandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsVandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsVandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsVandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsVandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsVandal is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Ack, sorry to hear about the bad news. I introduce the official card game of this thread:

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Old 01-11-2011, 09:55 PM   #2311
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Thanks, guys. I'm honestly sick of my writing being praised. Being a good writer means nothing if no one wants to read your work.

Someone from NYC was on my website this morning. I doubt it was the agent preparing to reject me, so likely someone else will be rejecting me soon. (IME, website hits always lead to Rs in the near future.)
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:55 PM   #2312
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SteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
LOL, that's great, Vandal!
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:58 PM   #2313
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Awesome Vandal, now we have something to go with the magot-bong and maggotinis!
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:04 PM   #2314
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That's awesome, Vandal.

Not awesome, Ink. Praise on Rs is weak tea indeed.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:14 PM   #2315
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Note the interlocking hands around the edge. That's us! One big, happy Pit family.

The bull in the middle is up for grabs.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:28 PM   #2316
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Like I got this amazing R from an agent and thought 'I can work through those revision suggestions and the book will be stronger'. So I'm just finishing up those suggestions now and, yup, it IS a better book. But what I got was a straight R, not a 'feel free to contact me again if you sort out these issues.' But those issues were so damn easy to fix!! So, I donno, I just don't get the difference between an R that points out fixable issues and R & R where said agent goallows the writer to fix them.
I wonder if an analogy from my day job would be relevant.

I grade a lot of papers and research essays. Sometimes it is easy to see how something could be better. Sometimes you just feel meh about a paper --- it isn't good and it isn't bad --- and it is hard to comment. Sometimes if the comments had been addressed, it could have been an A paper, but sometimes it wouldn't have made that much of a difference.

Basically what I am saying is that the grade doesn't correlate exactly with the comments. I could get a B paper that with many comments which addressed could be a B+. I could get a B+ paper which is just fine and I have nothing to say about it. An A- paper is great and some could work their way up to As, but some have gone as far as I can figure out how I can help them go.

In the end, it has to be an A.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:33 PM   #2317
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Snappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSnappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSnappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSnappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSnappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSnappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSnappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSnappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSnappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSnappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSnappy is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
::Paces back and forth in the pit::

Does the pit have an end? Walls? Is it round?
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:44 PM   #2318
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Snappy, it has walls, but I prefer not to touch them so I'm not certain of the shape.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:47 PM   #2319
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SteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsSteveCordero is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
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::Paces back and forth in the pit::

Does the pit have an end? Walls? Is it round?
The Pit is endless. And it does have walls which will crash on top of us.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:48 PM   #2320
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Snappy, it has walls, but I prefer not to touch them so I'm not certain of the shape.
Thank you! ::Proceeds to bang head against wall of unknown shape::

It's one of THOSE days!
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:58 PM   #2321
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Just don't wander down any of the hallways. Because it's the Pit that never ends, it just goes on and on, my friends...

*dies of earworm*
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:08 AM   #2322
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LKP *cry* See I figured something along those lines. That plus subjectivity plus never being able to 'know' if your shit is decent...

*le sigh* it just never ends. I quit thinking about it! I like the stories I write and I'll try querying them...and when I get smacked down I'll come cry on your shoulders in the pit whilst you protect me from random 'IT ONLY TAKE'S ONE!' people.

Yes, Vandal, we are a family down here aren't we?

Ink I noticed you crossed out paranormal in one of your books, have you changed it to a contemporary or just straight UF or something? {ink} I can imagine it SUCKS to be a good writer and getting such backhanded R's

Eta - humm no 'backhanded' isn't the right term. I meant it sucks to get so many compliments on your writing but ultimately hear 'no'.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:18 AM   #2323
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The Pit has walls, but I don't recommend touching them. Think bathroom stall in abandoned Oklahoma gas station ...
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:21 AM   #2324
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Just don't wander down any of the hallways. Because it's the Pit that never ends, it just goes on and on, my friends...

*dies of earworm*
And of course that is the song, muzak version, that is piped into the Pit 24/7.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:15 AM   #2325
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ink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsink wench is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
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Ink I noticed you crossed out paranormal in one of your books, have you changed it to a contemporary or just straight UF or something? {ink} I can imagine it SUCKS to be a good writer and getting such backhanded R's.
My next project is going to rewriting the story without the paranormal elements. And yeah, compliments are pretty meaningless without being backed up by a "I want to rep/sell this." Close will only get your somewhere with hand grenades.

So... who was it that started the butterfly of hope/chasing it over a cliff thing? Was it Kellion or Red? I want to credit the image in my blog post for tomorrow.
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