WOW - I know you can have nudity and/or sex in YA but...

JamieB · Apr 16, 2009

My first page is on a popular blog being critted right now. It's YA Science Fiction and the MC meets the girl from another world right away and she's naked. (Because they don't wear clothes or have material possessions where she's from) No sex, no touching, just a naked girl standing there with a 16 year old boy.

....and the troops are already circling. Not bad mind you, just a few comments from moms about how they wouldn't want their (more MG age) sons reading it....and NOTHING even happens.

WOW. I'm kind of shocked. Don't take this post the wrong way, I know my writing won't make everyone happy and it's subjective. But I'm surprised at that response in light of how mild my first few paragraphs are after reading all about sex and YA on here.

Shady Lane · Apr 16, 2009

ugh, join the club. My book's not even out yet, and I'm dealing with people telling me I'm corrupting minors.

I turned eighteen last weekend.

Keep on truckin'.

Millicent M'Lady · Apr 16, 2009

Do you describe her body in all its nakedness in it? If not, or if you don't describe it explicitly, I don't really see the problem with the nudity.

Zipotes · Apr 16, 2009

I wouldn't worry about it. If your book is YA, I don't think the mom's are going to be selecting all their teens books for them. I've read tons of YA (including lot's of best sellers) and sex is commonplace. You said yours isn't even sex, just nudity.
Both my YA books have sex in them, nothing graphic, but it's there.

Is your nude scene very graphic? If so, is it necessary, is it representative of the rest of the book and does it have to be on the first page? I have the feeling it isn't by what you say, so again, don't worry about it.

JamieB · Apr 16, 2009

Nothing explicit. No detail. I'm over it.

I guess I'm just used to all of you guys here on AW and getting feedback from other sources kind of threw me.

Danthia · Apr 16, 2009

I've noticed that some people who don't write YA, and haven't read YA since they were kids, are very vocal about what is acceptable for the market. I believe they're well meaning, but they just don't realize how much the market has changed in the last 20 years. I've had people tell me "oh, you can't do X in a YA novel" and not only did I do X, but I sold it and then the editor lowered it to a MG novel. So obviously X wasn't that big a deal.

Write the story as you feel it should be written. Like all feedback, if it doesn't resonate with you, don't listen to it.

Shady Lane · Apr 16, 2009

Danthia said:
I've noticed that some people who don't write YA, and haven't read YA since they were kids, are very vocal about what is acceptable for the market. I believe they're well meaning, but they just don't realize how much the market has changed in the last 20 years. I've had people tell me "oh, you can't do X in a YA novel" and not only did I do X, but I sold it and then the editor lowered it to a MG novel. So obviously X wasn't that big a deal.

Write the story as you feel it should be written. Like all feedback, if it doesn't resonate with you, don't listen to it.

It's true, and insane. I've seen a lot of this in NB's query contest--people stating flat out "45-50K is too short for YA" and "this material isn't appropriate for a YA market."

And of course I can't just tell them YOU'RE WRONG but, well, they are.

JamieB · Apr 16, 2009

I knew I'd feel better hanging out here for a while and bantering with people who have experience with this stuff!

YAwriter72 · Apr 16, 2009

I belong to a romance forum, and there are a lot of moms on there who say they would never allow their teenager to read books with sex or drugs. Pretty funny considering how many of them cut their teeth on romance novels which are pretty graphic!

I actually prefer the grittier dark real life/fantasy YA.

Barber · Apr 16, 2009

If my book turned off the wrong audience at page one, I'd be very happy with such an effective opening. It's not that I want to offend people, it's that I don't.

I like to let people know upfront that the book is gritty so they can walk away from it right away.

Kudos on being honest with your work

Momento Mori · Apr 16, 2009

JamieB:
I'm surprised at that response in light of how mild my first few paragraphs are after reading all about sex and YA on here.

Meh. Even here you'd be surprised at some of the responses you get when you mention that you're setting a scene of your YA novel in a gay sex shop ...

I wouldn't worry about it. Write your novel, polish your novel, submit your novel. The only opinions that matter are those of agents and commissioning agents.

MM

dawinsor · Apr 16, 2009

I too noticed people stating things like "too short word count" at NB's blog. Everybody may be entitled to their opinion but it's better if they're informed opinions.

Indus · Apr 16, 2009

I don't think all parents give their kids enough credit for being mature enough to read about some of the topics YA novels cover. The majority of the YA books I've read that have 'edgy' themes weren't glamorizing the sex or drugs. It never came across as gratuitous, but as young people coming to terms with who they were or who they wanted to be. Most of the situations are ones they kids have already faced or are going to in the near future. The fact people had a problem with just simple nudity is a little crazy to me. To each their own, I suppose. I'd just pay attention to the critiques that focused on the actual story/writing.

wandergirl · Apr 16, 2009

I've noticed that some people who don't write YA, and haven't read YA since they were kids, are very vocal about what is acceptable for the market

This is exactly right. Not only does that prejudice affect people's view of the "cleanliness" of YA, it also affects their view of the quality of YA.

ETA: In your case, meeting a girl from another world nude sounds story-appropriate, and quite compelling -- I would immediately think vulnerability and rebirth. Like in Neil Gaiman's Stardust.

alainn_chaser · Apr 16, 2009

wandergirl said:
This is exactly right. Not only does that prejudice affect people's view of the "cleanliness" of YA, it also affects their view of the quality of YA.

ETA: In your case, meeting a girl from another world nude sounds story-appropriate, and quite compelling -- I would immediately think vulnerability and rebirth. Like in Neil Gaiman's Stardust.

YES. Raw humanity at its basics. I think it's fine. Don't worry about it too much.

wandergirl · Apr 16, 2009

p.s. I want to read it. What's the blog? if you don't mind sharing, rep or PM me.

Achromasia · Apr 16, 2009

Shady Lane said:
It's true, and insane. I've seen a lot of this in NB's query contest--people stating flat out "45-50K is too short for YA" and "this material isn't appropriate for a YA market."

And of course I can't just tell them YOU'RE WRONG but, well, they are.

It's disturbing. It's like, so, don't YOU remember being a teenager? It's been stated time and time again, but it's really true that what most people consider "inappropriate" is reality.

Basically, they can get over it =]

Kathleen42 · Apr 16, 2009

In the animated version of the "The Last Unicorn", Amalthea is naked when first transformed from a unicorn into a human. Schmendrick covers her with his cloak. It came out in 1981 and was rated "G" in both Canada and the United States.

Zipotes · Apr 16, 2009

Kathleen42 said:
In the animated version of the "The Last Unicorn", Amalthea is naked when first transformed from a unicorn into a human. Schmendrick covers her with his cloak. It came out in 1981 and was rated "G" in both Canada and the United States.

I LOVED that movie when I was a kid.

timewaster · Apr 16, 2009

Zipotes said:
I wouldn't worry about it. If your book is YA, I don't think the mom's are going to be selecting all their teens books for them. I've read tons of YA (including lot's of best sellers) and sex is commonplace. You said yours isn't even sex, just nudity.
Both my YA books have sex in them, nothing graphic, but it's there.

Is your nude scene very graphic? If so, is it necessary, is it representative of the rest of the book and does it have to be on the first page? I have the feeling it isn't by what you say, so again, don't worry about it.

It is an issue. If you have nudity, sex, violence etc it restricts your market. You can include all those elements and it won't necessarily prevent you from being published but there will be people who would prefer not to buy your stuff and who will discourage others from buying it. It happens to me all the time.
I've found it more an issue in the US than the UK though tbh.

timewaster · Apr 16, 2009

Achromasia said:
It's disturbing. It's like, so, don't YOU remember being a teenager? It's been stated time and time again, but it's really true that what most people consider "inappropriate" is reality.

Basically, they can get over it =]

Well, yes but it depends on how much you want to sell. I'm in my late forties and actually there was very little written for teenagers. So people my age never read YA, we read adult stuff from about 10+ or whenever we out grew Enid Blyton, Biggles etc

The reason YA exists at all as marketing category is to give people who are not yet adults appropriate reading material - to lump together reading material that is not all about being middle aged and deciding whether to have an affair or not ( which seems to take up a disproportionate percentage of non YA fiction) On the one hand publishers want it to appeal to teens and to speak to their experience, on the other if it is in the children's section parents etc do expect it to be 'safe' for all children who are competent enough to read it.

My stuff isn't particularly safe and yet it is often in the 9-12 section. I've had outraged reviews where parents have complained that my books aren't suitable for ten year olds and by and large I tend to agree, but most of the time that is where they are shelved.

There is nothing to stop teenagers reading adult fiction, so when people worry about the suitability of material they are not insulting teens, they are just being realistic about the likely age of the readership of teen fiction.

If you want to sell yeah you can write edgy stuff and it may well sell, because it does do one of the things that publishers want, but you also have to accept that it won't necessarily meet with universal approval and that will limit sales.

WKolodzieski · Apr 16, 2009

I recieved a great deal of attention from one of my blog entries a few months back that dealt with rape. While it wasn't meant for YA audiences (The blog was entitled "The Darkest Side of Man") and it had cautionary "view-at-your-own-discretion" all over the place, I was made out to be an awful human being. And these were college students reading my blog at the time. I recieved death threats, angry responses, my phone lit up for weeks with people calling me and telling me how much of a scumbag I was, that I deserved to be in prison, I was no better than a rapist, etc - it was awful. Some of my "friends" were so offended with what I had written that they no longer associate with me (they've since tried to crawl back, but the hell with them). Was my blog controversial? Absolutely. But it wasn't meant to be and it wasn't written that way (although there was some detail about a rape) and it truly affected me a great deal. I barely made it through the semester on campus.

My point is that some people will always have a problem with what you have written and don't let them get you down. Trust me, it almost destroyed me. Good luck with the rest of your novel.

Achromasia · Apr 16, 2009

timewaster said:
The reason YA exists at all as marketing category is to give people who are not yet adults appropriate reading material - to lump together reading material that is not all about being middle aged and deciding whether to have an affair or not ( which seems to take up a disproportionate percentage of non YA fiction) On the one hand publishers want it to appeal to teens and to speak to their experience, on the other if it is in the children's section parents etc do expect it to be 'safe' for all children who are competent enough to read it.

If you want to sell yeah you can write edgy stuff and it may well sell, because it does do one of the things that publishers want, but you also have to accept that it won't necessarily meet with universal approval and that will limit sales.

OP's issue isn't all that "edgy" though. I'd consider graphic violence/rape, major drug use, ect. edgy - a nude woman isn't bad. Obviously writing about certain topics will limit your market, but I just don't think someone is going to be offended by nudity (especially since you can't SEE her).

YAwriter72 · Apr 16, 2009

JamieB said:
My first page is on a popular blog being critted right now. It's YA Science Fiction and the MC meets the girl from another world right away and she's naked. (Because they don't wear clothes or have material possessions where she's from) No sex, no touching, just a naked girl standing there with a 16 year old boy.

....and the troops are already circling. Not bad mind you, just a few comments from moms about how they wouldn't want their (more MG age) sons reading it....and NOTHING even happens.

WOW. I'm kind of shocked. Don't take this post the wrong way, I know my writing won't make everyone happy and it's subjective. But I'm surprised at that response in light of how mild my first few paragraphs are after reading all about sex and YA on here.

I read it and didn't think anything of the nudity and I thought it was really well written and I would read more. I was surprised by some of the comments too, but then again, a lot of the entries I thought were really bad got glowing praise. I guess I'm not the best judge!

Red.Ink.Rain · Apr 16, 2009

Hey there - I read your opening paragraph, and I gotta say I didn't see too many negative comments about that first scene being inappropriate. I wouldn't worry too much.

And I liked it!

WOW - I know you can have nudity and/or sex in YA but...

my name is hannah

Exploring the infinite abyss

Danthia

my name is hannah

someone let me off this crazy ride

Timing is everything...

Tired and Disillusioned

Dorothy A. Winsor

Chocolate Milk mmm.

~kirsten hubbard

Kweh?

~kirsten hubbard

Achromasia

crushing on fictional characters

present

present

Achromasia

someone let me off this crazy ride

Not your kid brother's YA