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Copyrighting a book vs a movie production (split from Legal/copyright question??)

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Everlasting

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Anyone know how this works if a book has copyright with all rights reserved, and later becomes a movie with most of the main plot intact?

My novel Moon over Key Biscayne is a sci fi thriller about the moon being pulled into the earth's gravitational pull; and how the world averts this.

I just found out that a mini series will be airing, and the plot of my book is the main focus of the movie.

Does the production company have to get permission to do this?

I just got in touch with an attorney, and I'm hoping my publisher will get involved as well.

Everlasting
 

James D. Macdonald

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How do you find out if they are considered public domain or if they are copyrighted?

Has the author been dead for seventy years or not?

I was going over my contract yesterday, and it states that I am responsible for 'registering the copyright with the US Copyright office, including payment of any fees and the cost of preparing printed and/or electronic documentation of the work as required by the US Copyright office.' It also says that I am to provide a copy of the copyright certificate to the publisher.


May I be so bold as to ask the name of this publisher?

Does the production company have to get permission to do this?

Yes, if they based the movie on your book. Proving that they did so may be very difficult indeed.
 

Catadmin

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Originally Posted by Everlasting
Does the production company have to get permission to do this?

Yes, if they based the movie on your book. Proving that they did so may be very difficult indeed.

Books can be copyrighted. Ideas cannot. Unfortunately, I've read books and seen movies before with the idea of the moon falling into the Earth's gravity well. Like James has said, proving this mini-series is from your book may be difficult.

Things to look for are actual dialogue rip-off, scene by scene plays, etc. Record the mini-series and go over it with a fine tooth comb. That's the only way you're going to find your proof, if proof there be.
 

Everlasting

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Thanks, I will.

And the publisher is Publish America.

Essentially, I have been shopping the idea around with a book to film agency . My legal adviser feels this may be a benefit, because it puts the idea out there, making the concept available to industry.

Everlasting
 
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Catadmin

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Publish America?? ACK!

That publisher is a well-known vanity press and commonly reported as a scam publisher. Both Writer Beware (http://www.sfwa.org/Beware/general.html#PA) & Preditors and Editors (http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/penulist.htm) recommend avoiding Publish America because of their poor industry practices. It's no wonder you have to do all the work for your book. PA doesn't do anything for you.

Even AbsoluteWrite apparently has a thread on them, though I can't get it to resolve correctly: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10211

Other links: http://www.lisamaliga.com/publishamericagetaway.htm

PA = Very Bad for your career. Seriously, no one counts PA publications as any sort of credit at all.
 

Everlasting

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But, this still establishes the work as a copyright.

Everlasting
 

James D. Macdonald

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Essentially, I have been shopping the idea around with a book to film agency.

Who?

They can tell you if your book has been sent to that prodco, and when. One of the things that you'd have to prove would be access -- did they ever have a copy of your book?
 

dpaterso

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I've split posts out of writingirish's
Legal/copyright question?? (using quotations in book) thread,
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144392
...and created this new thread.

Everlasting, if you haven't heard anything about PA before now, then this is indeed an unfortunate time to find out -- but as mentioned above, AW has an entire forum dedicated to this company. Some of the threads make for woeful reading as authors, having discovered PA's reputation, struggle to get out of their contracts.

Anyways... re your novel possibly being adapted to film without permission... I've gotta say this sounds extremely unlikely, since that would be a huge risk for any production company to take, as well as a tough one to prove. Even when film companies mount similar productions at the same time that appear to be based on a similar idea (think back to Armageddon and Deep Impact... not to mention their predecessor Meteor and probably a dozen other low-budget space rock movies) there's so much diversity in the execution of the idea that trying to claim ownership becomes an expensive waste of time. From what you've said, I'd guess that you and your advisers are going to have to study the movie/script and identify sufficient similarity of characters, scenes, plot beats, dialogue, etc. to prove unauthorized use to an impartial judge.

-Derek
 

Everlasting

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When the book is exposed to the industry through agency marketing, I believe this constitutes the industry having access to the book.

An IP Attorney is looking at this. Since 2006 after the book was published, I've been trying to market the novel as a sci fi thriller.

Even with every other end of the world science fiction novel/movies available; you'd think there'd be many which had touched on the "Moon"?

But no many have. We're not just speaking about an impact to our world from another the planet. The moon is a light within our galaxy, and a key to our existence.

A twist which in reality; was very little used.

Everlasting
 

James D. Macdonald

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When the book is exposed to the industry through agency marketing, I believe this constitutes the industry having access to the book.

What's the name of the agency that's doing the marketing?

(Please, please tell me it isn't the WL Screenplay Agency....)
 

Plot Device

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Try looking at the plot for the 2005 TV series Three Moons over Milford.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487229/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Moons_Over_Milford

From Wiki:

Three Moons Over Milford was an American science fiction dramedy set in a picturesque small town in Southern Vermont. Shortly before the series begins, an asteroid hits the Moon, shattering it into three fragments, threatening to eventually fall to Earth and end life. Thus, the threat of an eventual "Judgment Day" causes many people to question their lives and live them to extremes by quitting jobs, indulging vices and living as if each day were their last.

The show was cancelled because of low ratings in September 2006.
 

Everlasting

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In my book, and the ABC mini series, the moon is on a direct collision course with the earth; which is the bottom line basis of the ABC mini series. There are no moon fragments. It’s just the moon, making its way; toward impacting the entire planet.


Everlasting

Moon over Key Biscayne

ISBN: # 1-4241-6884-8

http://www.booksandmore.4t.com/
 

Eric San Juan

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But, this still establishes the work as a copyright.
Your work is protected, yes. Your idea is not. Anyone at any time could do a story about the moon slipping from its orbit or falling into Earth's gravity well. The idea has, in fact, been toyed with a number of times in science fiction literature.

So, unless this film being produced also reproduces your plot and characters -- and with a concept of this nature you'd probably have to go a little farther than "scientist character" to prove likeness -- I'm afraid there isn't much you can say or do here. Ideas are not protected (nor should they be). The basic premise is fair game.
 

LloydBrown

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Here are a couple of hundred similar variations, all of which are likely to predate your book

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ColonyDrop

And, in case you didn't get it, you can't copyright ideas. You copyright words. If the TV series/movie/whatever uses specific character names from your novel, dialogue from your novel, specific scenes from you novel, etc, then you might have a case.

As far as copyright, you had that the first time you wrote the words down. Unless you have specifically placed the book in the public domain, it's still under copyright.
 

8thSamurai

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Hate to break it to you, but you haven't a leg to stand on here.

One, chances are no one has ever seen your book.

Two, the concept has been done. A lot. And you can't copyright ideas.

Three, no production company will risk a possible legal battle when they can option an unknown book indefinitely for peanuts.

Four, production companies are interested in 'hot' books, not books that generally sell under 200 copies.
 

Everlasting

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Whether or not the book seemed hot based upon the publisher is irrelevant.

A copyright extend rights to the author, and grants the rights to all derivations in theater and art; from that literary standpoint.

Here's a link which can explain...

There is no fair use involved here.

What I'm trying to get at; is do you think the screenwriters and producers of "Impact" want me spinning my wheels directly behind them because I'm well within my rights to do so?

Everlasting


http://underdog.typepad.com/files/acquiring-story-rights.pdf




I have someone looking into the similarities, and I'll be checking them out as well. The very first promo I heard, is a quote from within my book. Granted this seems general, but still actual.

I'm going to be watching, and taking notes. If anyone has read my book, I'd like for you do the same. Maybe we can discuss the similarities through this post.
 
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Eric San Juan

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So just to clarify, you're saying you do not yet have any evidence that the producers of this program are even aware that your book exists and that outside of the basic premise, which is not protected in any way, shape or form, you do not even know if the program is, in fact, similar to your work?

Some clarity on that point would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

Everlasting

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I'm saying that my book has been shopped around through the industry with an agency, and other film production companies have seen the synopsis and pitch line for the movie behind my novel. But outside of that, the screenplay writer still needs to do due diligence.

Everlasting,

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:HNwLj3RM5koJ:underdog.typepad.com
/files/acquiring-story-rights.pdf+acquiring+video+rights+and+copyright+liability
&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
 

Eric San Juan

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But outside of that, the screenplay writer still needs to do due diligence.
Due diligence for what, though? That's what I'm failing to understand. As we've already tried to explain, you cannot copyright ideas (and besides, variations on your idea have, in fact, already been done in science fiction).

A book's basic premise is not protected under copyright, so presumably you feel that your actual plot and characters have been stolen. Outside a vague claim, though, you've not provided any evidence to back that assertion, which is why I asked for clarification. In fact, you appear to admit yourself that you don't actually know if your plot (which is not the same as your premise) was taken when you say, "I have someone looking into the similarities, and I'll be checking them out as well."

The only way to read that is that you don't know if the works are in fact similar. You're guessing because of a vague similarity in the basic premise of the moon being on a collision course with Earth, but you don't know. Is this correct or am I misreading what you're saying? By all means, if I'm misreading you, say so.

Incidentally, you now say the book has been shopped around via an agency. Out of curiosity, is this a real agency or is it some variation on the Publish America theme?

Just curious is all. Claims of literary theft are always an interesting topic. Thanks in advance for enlightening me.
 

dpaterso

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What I'm trying to get at; is do you think the screenwriters and producers of "Impact" want me spinning my wheels directly behind them because I'm well within my rights to do so?
Just asking, are you talking about "Impact" (2008) listed on imdb as a TV mini-series? If so, interesting imdb message board comments!

But from the sounds of things, your next step -- possibly hiring an entertainment lawyer? -- depends on whatever your guy who's "looking into the similarities" says.

-Derek
 

Everlasting

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I think that's pretty clear from the topic of the thread. Well let's just say that you've claimed many other movies have built on the moon being pulled into earth's atmosphere. Not a meteor, the moon. And if you could reference those in particular, it would be helpful. However; if the plot is to save the planet, before the moon crashes through and onto earth; then I'd say that along with depriving me of my right to use this in a movie myself, is infringement.

My real question for you is: Do you think the producers of "Impact" would allow anyone to infringe directly upon their story now?

I doubt this highly. Therefore my rights will be infringed upon, because they are now establishing their rights.

Just a thought

Everlasting,
 

dpaterso

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Sorry, I'm not a lawyer, I just don't know. Maybe it's time to talk to one, if you aren't already.

-Derek
 

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However; if the plot is to save the planet, before the moon crashes through and onto earth; then I'd say that along with depriving me of my right to use this in a movie myself, is infringement.

This, by itself, still isn't enough to prove copyright infringement.
 

Eric San Juan

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However; if the plot is to save the planet, before the moon crashes through and onto earth; then I'd say that along with depriving me of my right to use this in a movie myself, is infringement.

I'm afraid that as others have already noted, "save the Earth before the moon crashes into it" has been done before in science fiction literature. Even if it had not -- and this bears repeating -- you cannot copyright an idea. "Save the earth before the moon crashes into it" is your premise. Someone else can do a story using that rather broad concept and it would not be infringement. If they've taken your actual plot and characters, the nuts and bolts of what makes your story your story, then you're onto something. Otherwise, you're just two people doing a story based around a similar concept. I'm afraid there is no infringement there.

My real question for you is: Do you think the producers of "Impact" would allow anyone to infringe directly upon their story now?
Someone else could make a movie or miniseries about trying to avert a Moon Crashes Into Earth disaster and the producers of "Impact" would have no power to stop them. The concept, the premise, the idea ... it's not protected.
 
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