The word f*ck--a sign of weakness?

Fuck is no worse than 'dog', 'cat', 'umbrella', 'stairs' or 'coffee'.

If your character would say it, you write it.

I will never understand this aversion to swear words. They're part of the language, so use 'em at will.

Profanities are as a valid a word type as any other.

Used judiciously they can enrich a text, either for dramatic/comic effect or authenticity. I would never have an absolute rule for their use.

But it's all about context. If it's there for shock value or a simple attempt at verisimilitude then it's pointless and often gratuitous.

Cursing, like sex, can easily become gratuitous in writing. I don't have a problem with cursing; I'm pretty darn good at it myself as several people around here can attest. however, when I'm editing I tell my writers that a good curse word should be used for emphasis of an extreme mood or situation and not as a writer's favorite adjective.

Or verb.

Efficient and correct use of curse words can, like all language, illuminate the darker recesses of character. Imagine swear words like spices, the right one can bring out the natural flavour of the rest of the meal, the wrong one can make it taste bad. Too much is overpowering, too little is boring.

I think the word cunt doesn't get enough airplay.

It's definitely a sign of something.


When asking if it's a sign of weakness, are you talking about character quotes or writer quips?

Gotta pretty much agree with jbot. Context!

I use it to express anger or lust.

Any extreme emotion, really.

The Lonely One said:

I've used that four-lettered beasty before. Heck I still use it. In fiction.

But, aside from the idea of "showing character," is the word @#$% (can I say it? Okay I'm going to say it. Watch out--) fuck a sign of weakness in writing? Is it ever REALLY needed?

Even for character? Aren't there other clever ways to show character?

I notice myself using it to cover up my own insecurities in weak sentences. I wrote this the other day in CH 3 of my WIP:



take out the curse and, I came to realize, not only is the SENTENCE lame, but the paragraph leading there is also pretty much a dead-end, cheesy idea.

I'll forgo talking about how I seem to have lost access to my subconscious in this story, rendering it lame (that's something I'll have to work out alone).

But I think I'm going to have to use that search and destroy, er, replace function for this bad mother (shut yo mouth).

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There may be more clever ways to say something that means FUCK, but there are not more clever characters who wouldn't say FUCK. Use it if your character would. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH A GOOD FUCK USAGE. Anybody who would tell you otherwise is WRONG.

I don't mind reading that word, but I don't think it should sneak in and pretend to be an adjective if there's a better word out there. What does fucking mean in the gazelle sentence? You know?

Yet I definitely don't think it's a weakness!
It can be a useful characterization tool even though there are lots of other ways to show character. Sometimes I get a character and it's just natural that the person says the word. It's in their character DNA.

I shiver at the thought of not being able to use any word - no matter how vulgar or informal just because I'm afraid to look any certain way.

Some people speak and think that way. (Hi!) If you're writing a character who does so, then how can that be a sign of weakness? Is it any different than writing a character who says ain't or some other sort of speech pattern? That's how people are.

Though, I tend to think that only first person or very close third person narrative would include the word fuck-- or most other vulgarities-- outside of dialogue. Though, I suppose anything is possible.

Profanity alone will not show character. It's how and when profanity is used that shows character. It's different when I swear (which is pretty much all the time, when I'm not in Teacher-mode) and when my husband swears (because he says the word 'crap' as if he'll get spanked for saying it. And he in his 30s.) So, once the character is established if we come to the end of a scene and the character says "Oh, fuck." If I'm the character, then it's probably nothing. Could even be humorous. But if my husband was the character in the scene, then you KNOW something's incredibly horribly wrong. Part of a character.

Though I tend to think that division between what is "acceptable" language and what is not is really a way to segregate people-- usually "polite" society from impolite. They are only words. But that's a separate debate. =)

Don't worry about the profanity. Worry about creating characters. The characters you create will determine what, when, and how profanity is used. IMNHO.

My rule for fiction is the same as my rule for real life, which is what I taught my children. Very bad language should be reserved for very bad situations. My kids were taught not to use the F bomb for anything but a life threatening emergency. But in a life threatening emergency, the F word is acceptable - mandatory even, if that's what it takes to get people's attention.

In fiction then, the same; use it rarely, when the gravity of the situation warrants it.

The Lonely One said:

Can someone give me a sentence where they felt cursing was absolutely necessary? I would like to dissect such a sentence to get at the scratch I'm itching.

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From one of my WIPS---

“Just as soon as you fuck right the fuck off, you rotten bastard.”

The Lonely One said:

Can someone give me a sentence where they felt cursing was absolutely necessary? I would like to dissect such a sentence to get at the scratch I'm itching.

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Sure, but it's not mine. It's from a Springsteen song, and it engendered a LOT of debate on the NG when it came out. Some felt the use of fuck was gratuitous; I maintain it was the only appropriate word in that context.

Hmm... context... how much to quote? Eh, fuck it -- I'll quote the whole song. The fuck is in the last verse, for the attention-span-challenged:

Some people object to and are genuinely offended by profanity. That's why it's profane. So, you can't expect it to sit well with every single one of your readers. Some of them might form negative opinions about characters who swear, and that's their right.

Kurtz said:

I think the word cunt doesn't get enough airplay.

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So true. Perhaps the most powerful "profane" word for US readers.

I often make a point of using words such as fuck and cunt with their surface meanings: copulation and female sex organ. It's great fun.

KTC said:

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH A GOOD FUCK USAGE. Anybody who would tell you otherwise is WRONG.

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Fixed that for ya, KTC.

willietheshakes said:

Fixed that for ya, KTC.

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See, I slipped USAGE in there so I wouldn't be accused of going off topic. I originally went without the word USAGE.

The Lonely One said:

Can someone give me a sentence where they felt cursing was absolutely necessary? I would like to dissect such a sentence to get at the scratch I'm itching.

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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Ulysses is THE book for this. It has a ridiculous amount of profanity and obscene stuff in it, so much so that it was banned for a long time even in western europe. I think that the Australians only legalised it in the 40's. A lot of people go on about it being pretentious, but pretentious means 'less smart than you think you are'. Joyce is exactly as smart as he thought he was, VERY.

Heres an extract from a brilliant essay I read:
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Swearing for swearing's sake is not part of Joyce's aesthetic, "legitimate" or otherwise: anyone who appreciates Joyce's economy of language senses this instinctively, but there are any number of examples of "bad word" usage clearly not presented to win huzzahs from the sweaty-palmed reader. There is a pair of examples, in fact, which both ably demonstrate a similar scheme of swearing and represent climactic moments in the thematic struggle with illicit language. Dan Michel knowingly informs us that those who swear by God and His saints are "worse than the Jews" (Morris 64), who are forever to blame for running in those iron nails. This is one of the greatest of the dark ironies of the Citizen: "By Jesus, says he, I'll brain that bloody jewman for using the holy name. By Jesus, I'll crucify him so I will" (U 445). The twin moment of such dangerous but inherently ludicrous überverfluchen comes with the anticipated Stephen-Bloom intersection. If the Citizen is the defender of the faith, Private Carr is the loyal servant of the other of Stephen's "two masters", "[t]he imperial British state" (U 24):

PRIVATE CARR: (Tugging at his belt) I'll wring the neck of any bugger says a word against my fucking king. (U 693)
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And again, with more urgency:

PRIVATE CARR: (Loosening his belt, shouts) I'll wring the neck of any fucking bastard says a word against my bleeding fucking king. (U 694)
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Any word loses punch when overused. Fuck is no exception. An author I absolutely adore fell in love with the word "gnarly" during the writing of one particular novel. The word is sufficiently unusual to have made it stick out like a sore thumb (forgive the cliche) on second and third (and so on) use. Fuck, however, is not unusual for a large portion of the population, thus its use can be quite ubiquitous, given the right circumstances, without setting off alarm bells in most readers.

All words are good. Just use them well and wisely.

Profanity. To me, which character uses it and in what contexts is the point you consider when to put profanity into your writing, only if appropriate and it contributes to the writing.

Actually, I think wondering about using profanity is a middle class bias hung up on propriety. If you got a editor/publisher who doesn't like it, you can always delete it. You can personally disapprove of profanity, but if you have a reprobate as a character, profanity in dialog might be appropriate. Or, an teen who wants to shock. Or, ....????

Then, there's me and my mouth.

The Lonely One said:

Can someone give me a sentence where they felt cursing was absolutely necessary?

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From Kill Bill: "My name is Buck, and I'm here to fuck."

I don't think any other word would have worked as well in that context.

I hope it's not a sign of weakness. My characters curse all the damn time. I understand the idea of the impact of words. But if a character would curse nonstop then that's the way you should write it. And there are certainly people who curse to the point where it is mind-numbing. I went to college with more than a few.

And the nerdy part of me would like to point out that "fuck" is not profanity. It is obscenity. ("Jesus" is profanity. And "shit" is vulgarity.)