All Things Middle Grade - Page 3

scope · 08-27-2009, 08:59 AM

As a follow-up, make it a point to be around middle graders and observe and listen to them, even if from afar. And you really must make it a point to do so. Yes, school observations are great, but their attitudes and voices surround you every day. In the streets, on playgrounds, in your neighborhood, friends or relatives who have kids -- and the list goes on and on. Me, I live a few steps from a beach and a boardwalk, so in addition to the other things I do I sit or walk on the beach or boardwalk and just take in the sights and sounds of children -- mostly middle graders, of course. You have to be able to think as they do when you write for them. They are your muse.

RitrChick · 08-27-2009, 06:12 PM

Yay, I am so happy to have found this thread. I've been all jealous of the YAers with their gobs and gobs of threads, but I really didn't think there were so many of us in the MG boat. It's awesome!!

I've written a trunked Women's Fiction and started a YA, but have found myself more drawn to the younger set recently. I like the sense of wonder that is still present in this group. They don't think they know EVERYTHING quite yet.

PLUS, in the Jennifer Laughran thread under "Ask the Agent", she stresses the need for great MG. The bulk of her queries these days are YA (no surprise there). I know we shouldn't be writing for the market and yadda yadda, but I have to say, if there is less competition in the MG market and less market saturation, lemme at it!!

Hedgetrimmer · 08-27-2009, 07:12 PM

Judy and Timp, you're both right. Rather than a true quitting, it probably will end up being a mere hiatus. After publishing several essays and a narrative nonfiction book, I jumped ship and began writing for children. I suppose that in itself was a break from what I'd previously been doing. I spent the next two years writing picture books, and after that the next three years writing MG novels.

Not getting anywhere with any of it, I began to feel like I was spinning my wheels, simply wasting my time. But I know that's not entirely true. What both forms taught me was a more succinct use of words and the ability to keep the prose focused. My adult essays are much better for having done so.

Yet like you say, Judy, having tasted the pleasure of MG, I know I won't be satisfied until I one day get my fill. But that day isn't today, though I remain hopeful for such a tomorrow.

MsJudy · 08-28-2009, 03:17 AM

Hedge, you have a great ability to dig into a character's voice. Have you tried any literary for-adults writing? Not that it's any easier to break into that market....just that I think a lot of more mature readers would dive into your prose.

Hedgetrimmer · 08-28-2009, 05:35 AM

Yeah, I've thought about it. In fact, I've even considered rewriting SWEETNESS as an adult novel. I'm just not sure how to write from a 10-year-old's perspective and still hold a grown-up's interest. Maybe I'll read some adult novels with young MCs. I hear The Secret Life of Bees is very engaging.

Jack_Roberts · 08-28-2009, 06:05 AM

Maybe you guys could help me with a problem.
I call my book YA fantasy but it could just as easily be MG fantasy.

Parents are killed by wolves and the MCs are turned into vampires, but it's not gruesome. It's an adventure story where children have to learn how to be good vampires while avoiding the bad guys. Thier ages are 10 and 12 to start with but they age on the inside until thier bodies catch up. The book ends with them looking 12 and 14.

It's not Twilight, Darren Shan or any of the others out there. There is no romance.

So the early ages (10) fit in MG. The tone is adventure like MG. There is the issues of death and slight adiction issues (blood drinking) like YA and thier later ages (12, 14) fit YA.

The rules are making it hard to know where to fit. They will be ageing (I don't want to explain but I found a way to make it work) so the series will progress up to true YA with romance and the other serious issues envolved, but the first stand alone book is simply light adventure following tragedy.

I'm confused.

timp67 · 08-28-2009, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_Roberts

Maybe you guys could help me with a problem.
I call my book YA fantasy but it could just as easily be MG fantasy.

I would recommend simply writing the story you want to write! If you decide to purposely target the YA demo, you could amp it up a bit, and if it's MG, you could tone it down a bit, but I would really follow your muse to where it takes you.

Rest assured, the agent/editor you work with will tell you where they choose to place it!

Jack_Roberts · 08-28-2009, 07:18 AM

Fair enough. Good advice.

Smish · 08-28-2009, 07:24 AM

Call it upper-MG.

Seriously, though, it's tough to help with these sorts of questions, since we haven't read the novel. But still, can't go wrong with upper-MG...

RoseColoredSkies · 08-28-2009, 07:39 AM

I have novels that will be inching towards the upper side of MG/lower side of YA in the near future (aka whenever I get my butt in gear and actually write them) so i think it's alright for stories (series) to cross the line. I mean Harry Potter started out probably as upper MG and by the end was upper YA so...just write the story, get it as polished as you can and then worry about classifying it.

scope · 08-28-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_Roberts

Maybe you guys could help me with a problem.
I call my book YA fantasy but it could just as easily be MG fantasy.

The rules are making it hard to know where to fit. They will be ageing (I don't want to explain but I found a way to make it work) so the series will progress up to true YA with romance and the other serious issues envolved, but the first stand alone book is simply light adventure following tragedy.

I'm confused.

Jack, I'm confused also.

Sure there are times when we begin writing either a MG or YA work and after a while discover our audience to be older or younger. So we change our focus mid-stream, not after completion. Or, in some rare instances we complete a work written for one age group and then realize it fits better elsewhere. But you question begs all of this a bit. You wrote for a YA audience but now think that the first book of this would-be series would be compatible for middle-graders, specifically age 10. IMO you would have to believe, as would agents and editors, that the work is for all MG reader ages (meaning under age 10), and not just applicable to 10 year olds and YA's if you want to pitch the MG market. Best bet might be to say YA with fall over into upper MG (book 1).

Jack_Roberts · 08-28-2009, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scope

Best bet might be to say YA with fall over into upper MG (book 1).

Yeah Scope, looking over some of the MG posts I'm seriously thinking it's "low end YA". I mean it works for 10-14 yr old readers and tested well with 12 yr old to adult beta readers.

I think I'll stick with YA. Thanks, people, for being a sounding board.

Jack_Roberts · 08-28-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoseColoredSkies

I have novels that will be inching towards the upper side of MG/lower side of YA in the near future (aka whenever I get my butt in gear and actually write them) so i think it's alright for stories (series) to cross the line. I mean Harry Potter started out probably as upper MG and by the end was upper YA so...just write the story, get it as polished as you can and then worry about classifying it.

LOL
Thats the prob! It is written and polished. It's in the query stage now while I work on the sequil.

Yeah. I think it's lower YA.
Thanks!

RoseColoredSkies · 08-28-2009, 04:23 PM

Glad we could help you figure it out Scott!

Now if only today goes as planned and I atually WRITE!

MissKris · 08-28-2009, 08:12 PM

It's amazing how the MG and YA genres are growing and changing. It sure can be tough to figure out where novels should go, sometimes. I remember thinking that when I read The Graveyard Book. The story was very MG, except for the very emotional/hard for me to read beginning.

Also, wanted to announce . . . I HAVE AN AGENT!!! Gah, I'm so excited!

Smish · 08-28-2009, 08:14 PM

Congrats MissKris!

kdbeaar · 08-28-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissKris

Also, wanted to announce . . . I HAVE AN AGENT!!! Gah, I'm so excited!

Congratulations! So happy for you.

Karen

RoseColoredSkies · 08-28-2009, 08:27 PM

congrats Kris

MissKris · 08-28-2009, 08:37 PM

Thanks everyone!

Jack_Roberts · 08-28-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissKris

Also, wanted to announce . . . I HAVE AN AGENT!!! Gah, I'm so excited!

Yeah! How long did you search before landing one?

scope · 08-28-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissKris

Also, wanted to announce . . . I HAVE AN AGENT!!! Gah, I'm so excited!

Congrats. No easy mountain you just climbed.

timp67 · 08-28-2009, 11:23 PM

MissKris ...

C

O

N

G

R

A

T

S

!

MsJudy · 08-29-2009, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoseColoredSkies

I mean Harry Potter started out probably as upper MG and by the end was upper YA .

I hear this so often, and yet...it isn't true. JKR gave interviews as the last book was coming out in which she said she worked very hard to keep writing for the same 10- to 14-year-old audience she'd started out with, even as Harry got older. And I mean, really. Show me a teen over the age of 15 who picks HP to read over a true YA book like FAT KID RULES THE WORLD or 13 REASONS WHY.

For the last year or two, teens have been reading HP because they were kids when they started the series and they wanted to finish it. But really? It's an MG series. Dark MG, maybe, but not as dark as some. In general, the kids I know read the whole series somewhere between second and sixth grades. After that, they move on to more mature books. Or else they don't like reading enough to want to take on a series of 800-page books.

Of course there are exceptions, and I don't mean to get an argument started. But...

Kitty Pryde · 08-29-2009, 03:26 AM

But all the sweet little pumpkins who picked up the first HP and picked their way through it acquiring a love of reading could NOT have done the same if it was as long or as filled with teen angst and death as the last book was. They just wouldn't be able to get through it.

MissKris · 08-29-2009, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_Roberts

Yeah! How long did you search before landing one?

This is the second book I've subbed, although I only sent the first one to maybe 15 agents. I began querying in June. A week ago I heard back from an agent that had my full. She was passing, but she still loved the ms and ended up referring me to another agent. Agent 2 read it and offered a couple days later.

Soooo, three months or so?

I have a dear friend who landed an agent in a weekend, another who took nearly a year to find the right one. It can be all over the board, really.

08-27-2009, 06:12 PM	#52
RitrChick Rejoining the Butt in Chair Club Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: On the brink of Fantasticdom Posts: 414	Yay, I am so happy to have found this thread. I've been all jealous of the YAers with their gobs and gobs of threads, but I really didn't think there were so many of us in the MG boat. It's awesome!! I've written a trunked Women's Fiction and started a YA, but have found myself more drawn to the younger set recently. I like the sense of wonder that is still present in this group. They don't think they know EVERYTHING quite yet. PLUS, in the Jennifer Laughran thread under "Ask the Agent", she stresses the need for great MG. The bulk of her queries these days are YA (no surprise there). I know we shouldn't be writing for the market and yadda yadda, but I have to say, if there is less competition in the MG market and less market saturation, lemme at it!! __________________ Write as if your DREAMS depended on it--because they do!

08-28-2009, 03:17 AM	#54
MsJudy practical experience, FTW Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: california Posts: 5,673	Hedge, you have a great ability to dig into a character's voice. Have you tried any literary for-adults writing? Not that it's any easier to break into that market....just that I think a lot of more mature readers would dive into your prose. __________________ represented by Jenny Bent of the Bent Agency. Most happy.

08-28-2009, 06:05 AM	#56
Jack_Roberts Scribe of my muse, Annabelle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Western US Posts: 1,368	Maybe you guys could help me with a problem. I call my book YA fantasy but it could just as easily be MG fantasy. Parents are killed by wolves and the MCs are turned into vampires, but it's not gruesome. It's an adventure story where children have to learn how to be good vampires while avoiding the bad guys. Thier ages are 10 and 12 to start with but they age on the inside until thier bodies catch up. The book ends with them looking 12 and 14. It's not Twilight, Darren Shan or any of the others out there. There is no romance. So the early ages (10) fit in MG. The tone is adventure like MG. There is the issues of death and slight adiction issues (blood drinking) like YA and thier later ages (12, 14) fit YA. The rules are making it hard to know where to fit. They will be ageing (I don't want to explain but I found a way to make it work) so the series will progress up to true YA with romance and the other serious issues envolved, but the first stand alone book is simply light adventure following tragedy. I'm confused. __________________ Scott Bryan (Not Jack Roberts) Site & Blog: http://night-children.blogspot.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/scott_bryan1692 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!...?id=1659674089 Search for Night Children Dark Threats and Night Children Dark Birth on Amazon Last edited by Jack_Roberts; 08-28-2009 at 06:08 AM. Reason: more info

08-28-2009, 07:18 AM	#58
Jack_Roberts Scribe of my muse, Annabelle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Western US Posts: 1,368	Fair enough. Good advice. __________________ Scott Bryan (Not Jack Roberts) Site & Blog: http://night-children.blogspot.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/scott_bryan1692 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!...?id=1659674089 Search for Night Children Dark Threats and Night Children Dark Birth on Amazon

08-28-2009, 07:39 AM	#60
RoseColoredSkies It's a long and winding road Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brighton Posts: 736	I have novels that will be inching towards the upper side of MG/lower side of YA in the near future (aka whenever I get my butt in gear and actually write them) so i think it's alright for stories (series) to cross the line. I mean Harry Potter started out probably as upper MG and by the end was upper YA so...just write the story, get it as polished as you can and then worry about classifying it. __________________ *UNPLANNED* - [Women's Fiction] coming Dec 21, 2012 from MUSA PUBLISHING

08-27-2009, 08:59 AM	#51
scope Commonsensical Maverick Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,763	As a follow-up, make it a point to be around middle graders and observe and listen to them, even if from afar. And you really must make it a point to do so. Yes, school observations are great, but their attitudes and voices surround you every day. In the streets, on playgrounds, in your neighborhood, friends or relatives who have kids -- and the list goes on and on. Me, I live a few steps from a beach and a boardwalk, so in addition to the other things I do I sit or walk on the beach or boardwalk and just take in the sights and sounds of children -- mostly middle graders, of course. You have to be able to think as they do when you write for them. They are your muse.

08-27-2009, 07:12 PM	#53
Hedgetrimmer What happened, just there? Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: At the Point of No Return Posts: 1,391	Judy and Timp, you're both right. Rather than a true quitting, it probably will end up being a mere hiatus. After publishing several essays and a narrative nonfiction book, I jumped ship and began writing for children. I suppose that in itself was a break from what I'd previously been doing. I spent the next two years writing picture books, and after that the next three years writing MG novels. Not getting anywhere with any of it, I began to feel like I was spinning my wheels, simply wasting my time. But I know that's not entirely true. What both forms taught me was a more succinct use of words and the ability to keep the prose focused. My adult essays are much better for having done so. Yet like you say, Judy, having tasted the pleasure of MG, I know I won't be satisfied until I one day get my fill. But that day isn't today, though I remain hopeful for such a tomorrow.

08-28-2009, 05:35 AM	#55
Hedgetrimmer What happened, just there? Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: At the Point of No Return Posts: 1,391	Yeah, I've thought about it. In fact, I've even considered rewriting SWEETNESS as an adult novel. I'm just not sure how to write from a 10-year-old's perspective and still hold a grown-up's interest. Maybe I'll read some adult novels with young MCs. I hear The Secret Life of Bees is very engaging.

08-28-2009, 04:23 PM	#64
RoseColoredSkies It's a long and winding road Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brighton Posts: 736	Glad we could help you figure it out Scott! Now if only today goes as planned and I atually WRITE! __________________ *UNPLANNED* - [Women's Fiction] coming Dec 21, 2012 from MUSA PUBLISHING

08-28-2009, 08:12 PM	#65
MissKris Is the random. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Kate brought me. Posts: 1,692	It's amazing how the MG and YA genres are growing and changing. It sure can be tough to figure out where novels should go, sometimes. I remember thinking that when I read The Graveyard Book. The story was very MG, except for the very emotional/hard for me to read beginning. Also, wanted to announce . . . I HAVE AN AGENT!!! Gah, I'm so excited! __________________ NOBODY BUT US HarperCollin's Children's Books: January 29, 2013 Yes, yes. A blog. This is my twitter. YA Highway: Come join the patrol

08-28-2009, 08:27 PM	#68
RoseColoredSkies It's a long and winding road Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brighton Posts: 736	congrats Kris __________________ *UNPLANNED* - [Women's Fiction] coming Dec 21, 2012 from MUSA PUBLISHING

08-28-2009, 08:37 PM	#69
MissKris Is the random. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Kate brought me. Posts: 1,692	Thanks everyone! __________________ NOBODY BUT US HarperCollin's Children's Books: January 29, 2013 Yes, yes. A blog. This is my twitter. YA Highway: Come join the patrol

08-28-2009, 11:23 PM	#72
timp67 Guinea pig in the laboratory of God Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California Posts: 787	MissKris ... C O N G R A T S ! __________________ Blog: Reader. Writer. Boredom fighter! Twitter Robots have a favorite book THE BOY WHO HOWLED from Bloomsbury USA Children's Books

08-29-2009, 03:26 AM	#74
Kitty Pryde i luv you giant bear statue AW Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 8,862	But all the sweet little pumpkins who picked up the first HP and picked their way through it acquiring a love of reading could NOT have done the same if it was as long or as filled with teen angst and death as the last book was. They just wouldn't be able to get through it. __________________ My student teaching project is helping my fifth graders put on a bone marrow donor drive and raise money for childhood cancer!

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