The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread

[DaveKuzminski]

Not to forget mentioning but how will the writers fare when it comes to royalties on the "donated" books to bookstores? After all, if the store sells the books, wouldn't the author be entitled to royalties?

[wanda45451964]

Naturally show up there. If nothing esle you could always buy your book as a christmas present, I am mean GEEEEEE youa rent going to get paid anyway. How would you get paid royalties on a donated book anyway? Just throwing that new thought out there, like we wouldnt think of that ourselfves, be sitting here in feb waiting to get a royalty check on a donated book. Theyhave really sunk low now. All of you should be laughing about that one, didnt think that I could come up with that question to throw out there and make everyone think about that. You cant get paid on a book that's donated free.

[wanda45451964]

dave bought up a good point above? How would we get paid. I say that we wouldnt because the bookstore would consider them as donations and whatever they made off of them, they will not tell Pa and we will not get paid. YET AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!! really ticks me off. So if Pa were to actually donate say15 books, not that I believe they would, I don't. The bookstore could sell them for 15.00 a piece if they wanted to and make a clear profit, we wouldnt see any of that money, and be stuck with the 15 books that we bought ourselfves. God They must think we are all stupid.

[DaveKuzminski]

Let's also remember that will put the bookstore and author into direct competition with each other with the writer at a disadvantage because the writer underwrote both parties and the bookstore at a distinct advantage because they don't have to sell any to break even. Why would anyone in the general reading public purchase from the author if they can obtain the same book for much less from the bookstore?

[Cyia]

It's sort of a large scale version of the "reverse shoplifting" idea that was on the PAMB a while back - sneak your book onto the shelf when no one's looking. It won't be in the system, but Hey! if it's there, and someone takes it to the counter, they have to sell it. Right? Right??? Right?!!!

[merrihiatt]

Who gets stuck for the shipping cost of these books? You know it won't be PublishAmerica. So the author pays for the books, pays for the shipping costs, and gets no royalties (since books are being donated to the bookstore). PA most likely gets some kind of tax write-off for their donation and the bookstore ends up chucking the books into the dumpster out back. Great idea, PublishAmerica!!! ** rolling my eyes ** The only one who stands to gain anything with this plan is PublishAmerica, as always.

[ChristineR]

Originally Posted by merrihiatt

Who gets stuck for the shipping cost of these books? You know it won't be PublishAmerica. So the author pays for the books, pays for the shipping costs, and gets no royalties (since books are being donated to the bookstore). PA most likely gets some kind of tax write-off for their donation and the bookstore ends up chucking the books into the dumpster out back. Great idea, PublishAmerica!!! ** rolling my eyes ** The only one who stands to gain anything with this plan is PublishAmerica, as always.

Maybe that's the secret. Maybe they get $24.95, or whatever they're charging nowadays, as a tax write off, when the actual cost to themselves is completely covered by the shipping and handling charges. But this wouldn't apply to donations to bookstores, just libraries or other qualified charities.

[Gillhoughly]

I like the tax write off idea.

But just for a second, let's all think like scruple-free scumbags:

Say a writer orders 20 books, pays for them, and PA just "forgets" to ship the other 20 to the store.

I'm sure there are tons of excuses already on the office whiteboard relating to "lost in shipping, inundated with orders, lost in shipping, the bookstore is lying, lost in shipping", and "you owe us an apology."

How can anyone outside the PA offices prove a negative like that? I doubt PA would produce a shipping receipt unless they get slammed with a court order, which won't happen.

The writer paid for his 20 books, and with no money lost on the "donated" 20--as they're very likely imaginary--it's quite easy for PA to get away with this.

In fact, we won't even charge the bookstore for the shipping! And you receive a 40 pct discount!

Example: you order 20 copies, we print 40. We ship your 20 copies to you, and the same day we ship an additional 20 books to your local bookstore, for FREE.

When the hell have they EVER been that generous?

Never.

So I doubt any books will be shipped to any bookstore. PA writers--good luck trying to contact your PA editor as this one goes south.

The writer can contact the store manager, who can only say, "We didn't get anything in, sorry."

PA is still richer for the cost of 20 books sold (plus 3.99 shipping charges for EACH, I suppose) times however many of their writer victims fall for this latest bit of "marketing."

It's slimy, but brilliant.

.

[wanda45451964]

Its just one more gimmick for them to make money. And the author is going to get nothing as usual. I mean really, if the bookstore can sell their free donated copy for 10.00 and we have to sell ours for 30.00 because we paid 24.95 plus shipping, then who will sell more copies. They will. But in the end Pa will still have gotten money from us. think about it, the donated copies cost them nothing to print at all. If they really even do that, after all no bookstore doesnt know anything about donated copies are on the way from a author they have never heard of at all. Pa is still making money the same way they always have through us. I think they only need one office at Pa. That way Larry and Miranda can sit there together to come up with all the scams that they do, must be all they use their brain for.

[wanda45451964]

I hope that after this email is posted others will see this, before signing the contract and it will stop them before its too late. Or if nothing else, it will stop them from buying any amount of books from this scam. I guess we can all hope for that. I wonder if everyone got the same email that I did or did they send several different ones out this am.

[wanda45451964]

If a author does ever call B@N to ask this question above, because they did fall for this scam, after it's too late. B@N will tell them they do not carry PA books, never have and never will. But by this time the author will be out of 300.00 that they spent for the 20 books.

[Cyia]

The other option with this "promotion" is apparently to send the copies (min. order of 12!) to the writer's local library for donation.

When's the last time you saw ANY book that got 12 copies shelved at the same library?

Stephen King? Nope.
J.K. Rowling? Nope.
James Patterson? Nope.
Stephenie Meyer? Nope.

Even best selling new releases get single digit placement because the library has no room for the books. The other donations get tossed in the "Support the Library" dollar bin. Or, if they're like the library in the next town over from mine, they might stick them in the "Free, please Take as many as you want" crates to clear space.

[ChristineR]

My local library ordered over a hundred copies of the Harry Potter books in various editions. Many go missing, though.

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by Cyia

. . . When's the last time you saw ANY book that got 12 copies shelved at the same library?

. . . .

The Sacramento, CA, library system has 11 copies of Capital Crimes: 15 Tales by Sacramento Area Authors, but spread among its branches. They ordered 8 from me in one whack (I am the publisher). But not a dozen. And not in one branch.

--Ken

[Don Davidson]

I'm sure PA makes good money on this deal even if they do actually ship the "donated" books to the bookstore. But I find it amusing how PA's email solicitation paints such a rosy picture of what the bookstore will do with all of these unsolicited, and likely unsellable, books. PA wants the author to believe that the bookstore will eagerly display these books prominently, when the reality is that they will be in the trash bin within 15 minutes of arrival. The only way this has a prayer of being anything other than a complete disaster and utter disappointment for the author is if he or she has already greased the skids with the bookstore, so the bookstore knows the books are coming and has previously agreed to put at least one copy up for sale--an unlikely scenario.

By the way, I see no basis or reason for a tax break in this scheme. PA's business expenses, including the cost of printing and shipping these "donated" books, are already fully deductible. I suspect PA chose the word "donated" to give the false impression that this deal involves some level of sacrifice and generosity on their part.

[James D. Macdonald]

Dear Author:

PublishAmerica will put your book in your local bookstore!

They're only now thinking about doing this?

As many copies as you determine! Imagine, Christmas shoppers flocking to bookstores, and the book they find displayed there is yours!

Yeah, imagine it, because the only place it's going to happen is in your imagination.

Usually, bookstores determine how many copies they order.

With the holiday sales season around the corner, we are ready to donate your book to your bookstore.

This is bizarre to the point of insanity.

We're not waiting for them to order it.

And a good thing, too, because if you did you'd be waiting a long, long time (think of Hell freezing over). But doesn't this contradict one of PA's long-standing lies, about how bookstores are Ordering Their Books, All The Darned Time? Are they finally admitting what everyone has known for years, that their books aren't actually shelved in stores?

They may put up your book for sale any way they want,

Then again, they may not.

highlighting you as a local author,

Vaguely possible, if they can figure out what the carton of books is all about.

stacking it on a front table,

Not going to happen. Publishers pay money to have their books stacked there.

selling it next to the register,

Again, not going to happen. That's highly commercial space. Publishers pay to have their books placed there.

or any other way they choose.

Stacked next to the Dumpster is more likely.

Do you want us to donate the book to your local library instead? We're ready to do that as well.

With no CIP data? Not going to be shelved. And we've already seen how libraries won't accept PA books as a gift. What are they going to do with twenty of them?

Here's how we do it:

If you want to have books on hand, may now order any number of books
you need, and PublishAmerica will match the order. We will donate the
exact same number of books to your local bookstore. In fact, we won't
even charge the bookstore for the shipping!

Damn straight they aren't going to charge the bookstore for shipping. It would be illegal for PA to charge anyone for unordered merchandise.

Even if PA charged, the bookstore could treat it as a gift and not pay.

And you receive a 40 pct discount!

Example: you order 20 copies, we print 40. We ship your 20 copies to you, and the same day we ship an additional 20 books to your local bookstore, for FREE.

Why not cut out the middleman and ship it straight to your local landfill?

Go to www.publishamerica.net, find your book, click on it, then add to cart, indicate quantity, and use this coupon: Bookstore40. Then click Recalculate and finish the transaction. Minimum volume is 12 copies.
Want fewer books? Then use this coupon: Bookstore30. No minimum volume requirement here. This will give you a discount of 30 pct, and we'll still donate as many books to the bookstore as you order for yourself.

In the Ordering Instructions field, be sure to indicate the name and address
of your local bookstore or library. We will ship your books there the same day
we ship your order to you. By using the coupon you are authorizing us to
match your order and donate the books. You may also request that we ship
the FREE books to you instead.


U.S. stores and libraries only. Full-color and hardcovers excluded. Offer expires this weekend on Sunday night.

Hurry, hurry, hurry! Step right up! Hard-sell tactics.

Getting desperate, guys? Or is the author going to get stuck with exorbitant shipping charges?

Thank you,
PublishAmerica Author Support Team

The PublishAmerica Pants-On-Fire Team

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by Cyia

It's sort of a large scale version of the "reverse shoplifting" idea that was on the PAMB a while back - sneak your book onto the shelf when no one's looking. It won't be in the system, but Hey! if it's there, and someone takes it to the counter, they have to sell it. Right? Right??? Right?!!!

A few weeks after PA returned my rights, my PA book showed up on the local B&N shelf. Placement was in the wrong section, spine out. I examined the book and found that B&N had covered the PA ISBN with their own ID and price tag, the price being the original $19.95. I had no desire to sell the book and asked Customer Service if they knew how it had been placed. They said it would have been placed by the home office. I have doubts about that; however, I left the book as placed and watched it for six months until it finally disappeared. Don't know if it sold or not, but I doubt it could have gone through the cash register without the B&N ID tag.

[wanda45451964]

you were lucky that it ended up there at all. wish B@N would do our books like that now, might get paid.

[wanda45451964]

Ho wmuch did it cost you to get your rights returned?

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by wanda45451964

Ho wmuch did it cost you to get your rights returned?

It didn't cost anything. I wrote a professional business letter and told them I had sold 175 books and did not anticipate selling more, as I was moving on to other things. I did not ask for a release, but suggested that it was in their best interest to release my rights, since I did not anticipate more sales, and they would have to continue maintaining records, issuing tax information, and the like, if my rights were not released. I received the release in a couple of weeks.

[wanda45451964]

wow!!!!!!!!!!!! you some kind of lawyer? I know people here that has to pay to get out of one them contracts. Did you really sell that many or did you tell them that.

[wanda45451964]

wish you would have been on here weeks ago. You could tell alot of people how to get out of things here.I ask for my rights back, but still havent heard anything in a month. I was mean too.

[merrihiatt]

Wanda, you won't get anywhere with PA (or anyone else) by being mean. Keep your words and demeanor professional and courteous. Not for PA, but for yourself and your own integrity.

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by wanda45451964

wish you would have been on here weeks ago. You could tell alot of people how to get out of things here.I ask for my rights back, but still havent heard anything in a month. I was mean too.

My royalty statements were for 155 books, most of those through a couple of bookstores, libraries and book signings. I sold another 20 or more directly and in various ways, probably a little more than 175 total.

I knew early on what PA was and took the attitude that I was not forced to sign their contract, so when it came time to suggest a release, I tried to keep it on a professional level and never tried to make my case for release through a writing board because they monitor writing boards. They know all their writers, whom frequent this board and others. Seeking a release from any contract is best kept at low key. Raising the rhetoric decibel simply upsets parties on both sides. And in PA's case, they hold all the cards at least for seven years.

[Don Davidson]

Originally Posted by merrihiatt

Wanda, you won't get anywhere with PA (or anyone else) by being mean. Keep your words and demeanor professional and courteous. Not for PA, but for yourself and your own integrity.

If you are trying to get released from your contract, courtesy and $300 will get you a lot further with PA than courtesy alone. I tried the courtesy approach, but it got me nowhere because I refused to pay the $300. So I moved on. They said they wanted my book, not my money, and that's what they've got. It's all they will ever get from me. I will simply wait them out. Five more years to go....