The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread

[James D. Macdonald]

Originally Posted by Queen of Swords

She might also hear from the people who don't know her and are going to open that book - in other words, readers who review.

There won't be any.

Readers won't find it. No one she doesn't already know by name, or who wasn't looking her in the eye when money changed hands, will ever read this book.

Sadly, the same would be true if this were a dandy book, the next Adventures of Tom Sawyer.

[TheTinCat]

I sat where I had a view of the signing table and watched that little girl while I read her book and tears came in my eyes.

That whole story makes my stomach hurt.

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by thpate21

Howdy all,

. . .
I look forward to reading posts and getting to know many of you.

Hank

Welcome! Ramble around the threads, as there is a lot of interesting stuff ranging all over the writing and publishing waterfront.

--Ken

[Falen]

Originally Posted by Arkie

I sat where I had a view of the signing table and watched that little girl while I read her book and tears came in my eyes. I thought of all those people that knew her and was going to open that book, and it made me want to go to her and say gather these things up and get out of here. Don't let anyone see this, but of course I couldn't.

Ugh. this is one of the most depressing things i've read today. sigh.

[Don Davidson]

Originally Posted by thpate21

THANK YOU. This website helped me from making a fatal mistake.

I look forward to reading posts and getting to know many of you.

Hank

Welcome to AW, thpate21. Glad you found us in time. If you need any further reasons not to sign with PublishAmerica, check out the "Truth About PublishAmerica" page on my web site, or just Google "PublishAmerica scam" and read through some of the horror stories you find there. Oh, and be sure to spread the word to other aspiring authors about what PublishAmerica really is.

[merrihiatt]

Welcome, Hank! You are wise to have researched PublishAmerica before submitting your work to them or signing a contract with them. AW is a large place, but also full of amazing and helpful people.

[TheTinCat]

Originally Posted by merrihiatt

AW is a large place, but also full of amazing and helpful people.

That it is

[Little1]

Originally Posted by Arkie

I sat where I had a view of the signing table and watched that little girl while I read her book and tears came in my eyes. I thought of all those people that knew her and was going to open that book, and it made me want to go to her and say gather these things up and get out of here. Don't let anyone see this, but of course I couldn't.

Aw that story made me want tothat is so sad. I could see my self at that age (I immagen her being 13-16) and being extreamly happy(not that I would not be now LOL) to be "published" and how crushed I would be if i found out the truth. Its so sad that they would do something like this. How could a company alow a book to leave them without EDITING IT???? -=sigh=- Thanks for the welcome

[kullervo]

And you know what happens if you show up at school claiming you've been published. Out come the iPhones, up comes Google, and on rushes the ridicule. Complete disaster. That has to be one of the most crushing PublishAmerica stories ever.

[M.R.J. Le Blanc]

Kids are cruel enough without additional ammo. I hope that writer does come here, that's just terrible. The Stooges really have no hearts, do they?

[Gillhoughly]

Kullervo, expect that most people in an average classroom won't know PA's reputation, including the teacher. There are tons of creative writing teachers who think PA is a legit venue.

I recently got a mail from an aspiring writer wanting advice on how to get an agent. He said he'd published two books and had several more ready to shop. He was "ready to take his writing career to the next level."

In the time it takes to type *THIS* far in this post, I'd Googled his name and found the two 120-page titles selling for 22.95 each were with PA.

Well, *I* knew they weren't professionally published, but clearly he did not. It was a tough writing my reply. I pulled no punches. It wouldn't have done him any favors, and besides, I have warnings against PA all over my website, which he'd have had to gone to to get my mail addy.


People see a picture of the book with the writer's name on it. Who bothers to notice the name of the publisher? Most will be impressed.

They will think this person is truly pro-published, and it's impossible to impart sense into them when they're waving that overpriced book around.

They will certainly make excuses for the formatting errors, bad spelling, and grammar goofs, along the lines of "every book has typos" or "but the story's so good you don't notice those things."

Walk on, write your book, and let the lemming either figure it out when the royalty check arrives or let him drown. The last thing one should do is talk sense into them when they're celebrating.

Maybe later one could ask, "Why did you choose to sign on with a print mill instead of with a real publisher?"

They will either be ignorant about the difference, say that they didn't have enough money to pay a publisher (tell them about Yog's Law), or trot out "other publishers rejected me, but PA accepted it."

Asking if they could point out other PA titles in the store might cause them to ask why there aren't any, but some people will never figure it out.

They're in the honeymoon stage. By then it's too late to point out they're staying at the Bates Motel.

[Little1]

Originally Posted by Gillhoughly

Kullervo, expect that most people in an average classroom won't know PA's reputation, including the teacher. There are tons of creative writing teachers who think PA is a legit venue.

I recently got a mail from an aspiring writer wanting advice on how to get an agent. He said he'd published two books and had several more ready to shop. He was "ready to take his writing career to the next level."

In the time it takes to type *THIS* far in this post, I'd Googled his name and found the two 120-page titles selling for 22.95 each were with PA.

Well, *I* knew they weren't professionally published, but clearly he did not. It was a tough writing my reply. I pulled no punches. It wouldn't have done him any favors, and besides, I have warnings against PA all over my website, which he'd have had to gone to to get my mail addy.


People see a picture of the book with the writer's name on it. Who bothers to notice the name of the publisher? Most will be impressed.

They will think this person is truly pro-published, and it's impossible to impart sense into them when they're waving that overpriced book around.

They will certainly make excuses for the formatting errors, bad spelling, and grammar goofs, along the lines of "every book has typos" or "but the story's so good you don't notice those things."

Walk on, write your book, and let the lemming either figure it out when the royalty check arrives or let him drown. The last thing one should do is talk sense into them when they're celebrating.

Maybe later one could ask, "Why did you choose to sign on with a print mill instead of with a real publisher?"

They will either be ignorant about the difference, say that they didn't have enough money to pay a publisher (tell them about Yog's Law), or trot out "other publishers rejected me, but PA accepted it."

Asking if they could point out other PA titles in the store might cause them to ask why there aren't any, but some people will never figure it out.

They're in the honeymoon stage. By then it's too late to point out they're staying at the Bates Motel.

I would not blame the writer 100% for PA's actions. I mean if you look at there web page they seem like a good company. I will grant you that some of them did not do there job of reserching... but to blame the writer 100% I think is wrong. I am sorry if I took your post in the wrong way. but I got the feeling that is what you were doing.

[Gravity]

I think what Gill is saying is that now--ten years after their launch--PA's reputation is all over the 'Net. Their workings are plain to see for anyone who spends ten minutes with Google. That means these days it appears their customers roughly fall into three categories: the elderly, the non-internet-savvy, and the functionally illiterate. If I've missed a group, someone please correct me.

[TheTinCat]

Originally Posted by Little1

to blame the writer 100% I think is wrong. I am sorry if I took your post in the wrong way. but I got the feeling that is what you were doing.

It's not a matter of blame, though - just observations. Only PA is responsible for their own horrid practices, and I doubt that Gill disagrees with that.

Writers who publish with PA will (almost per definition) have done little to no research before signing, or have - for differing reasons - chosen to ignore the warnings they've found.

And authors in the honeymoon period often act exactly as Gill describe. She's not pointing fingers, just describing how things tend to unfold.

[Gillhoughly]

Yes, that was my point.

I DO tend to blame the writer who doesn't do basic research. Ultimately it is the writer who chooses where to send their book. No one twisted their arm to go to PA. PA just sits there and takes what comes their way, knowing there's one born every minute.

I spent the last weekend at a conference warning newbies about places like PA.

And STILL a would-be writer came to my table, asked about how to get published and was it very expensive. Lucky for her my caffeine hit had worn off or I'd have leaped over and strangled the poor thing.

Instead I handed her a copy of a list of SAFE online places to learn about publishing (it includes the AW and SFWA sites) and pointed at the bottom of the page which said AVOID PA.

She was not firing on all thrusters and pointed to the AW site, "Are these the bad guys??"

I had to circle the PA name and write "BAD GUYS" next to it, then wrote "GOOD GUYS" at the top and circled the rest.

So YES, I get annoyed.

I doubt she will ever get published, but at least she won't get taken by PA. Neither will a hundred other folk who were paying attention.

I can't stress enough how much the Internet truly is a stranger with candy.

[Little1]

-=sigh=- I agree with you on that Gill. I mean come on people! if you are going to take the time to write your book PLEASE take the time do to a bit of resurch before giving it to some one!

[TheTinCat]

I had to circle the PA name and write "BAD GUYS" next to it, then wrote "GOOD GUYS" at the top and circled the rest.

Well. Then.

Good job for not spraying her with exploding brain.

[Scribhneoir]

Originally Posted by Gravity

That means these days it appears their customers roughly fall into three categories: the elderly, the non-internet-savvy, and the functionally illiterate. If I've missed a group, someone please correct me.

I would add the willfully ignorant. They do Google and find the warnings, but choose to go with PA anyway.

[James D. Macdonald]

Same groups as always: The desperate, the deluded, and the naive.

[Cyia]

Originally Posted by Scribhneoir

I would add the willfully ignorant. They do Google and find the warnings, but choose to go with PA anyway.

Which breaks down into:

I'm different...
No one else wanted it...
Other publishers would ruin my vision...
I'm too controversial for publication elsewhere...
And
I can get published, too! See how easy it is? Take that [insert name of repressive family member/teacher/evil conglomerate publishing house]

[JulieB]

I was also at a convention last weekend. Happened to be in a room party on Saturday night, sitting near the beer, chatting with a few folks. Someone mentioned a notoriously bad self-published book, and THAT led to a conversation of bad books in general, which led to Atlanta Nights. Several people in the group had never heard of the book or PA, and so a couple of us told the story.

Most of these folks were pros, but a couple were aspiring writers. I think they got the message.

[colealpaugh]

Originally Posted by thpate21

...a women's study course in school...
...introduce himself...
...male student, 19, said he was a published author, a book of poetry...
...sounded very promising...

Meh, I say this is one PA author who knew exactly what he was getting into. Sort of sets up like a bad condom ad. I give him an "A" for effort, although totally unrelated to writing.

[merrihiatt]

Originally Posted by Gravity

I think what Gill is saying is that now--ten years after their launch--PA's reputation is all over the 'Net. Their workings are plain to see for anyone who spends ten minutes with Google. That means these days it appears their customers roughly fall into three categories: the elderly, the non-internet-savvy, and the functionally illiterate. If I've missed a group, someone please correct me.

I don't fit into any of your three categories. I'm not elderly. I am internet savvy. I am functionally literate. I really don't appreciate someone trying to lump me into three simplistic categories.

It bears repeating that some people did do research. I even went so far as to contact two PA authors to get their personal opinion/experience with PA. They loved PA. Looks like my random pick of two authors just happened to be two "happy" PA authors. I also read many, many articles about PA. Most claimed that the rabble rousers were folks who had not read and understood their contracts or folks who thought PA was going to promote and market their book (two things PA expressly states they do not do). The one place I did not find was Absolute Write. How I missed it, I'm not sure, as it seems like I visited ten to twenty sites (IIRC).

PA deliberately misleads people with their website's wording and when an author asks questions, they are often led back to the website for answers (I know I was). Unfortunately, the website doesn't address the questions that really matter:

1. Why do most bookstores say no to having a PA book on their shelves?
2. Why doesn't PA edit their books?
3. Why does PA price their books so high?
4. Why can't I call PA and talk with someone when I have a question?
5. Why can't I get a response when I e-mail PA with a question?
6. Why doesn't PA allow their authors to ask questions on the PA message board? It would seem like that would be a great place to answer questions and pass along information.

I digress...

I just want to reiterate that I am not elderly, non-internet-savvy, or functionally illiterate. My guess is that some PA authors may fit the mold you have identified; however, making such a general statement is disrespectful and unqualified.

ETA: Desperate, deluded or naive? Naive, yes. I knew very little about the publishing industry and assumed that ANY publisher would want books to end up in the hands of readers and be placed on bookstore shelves.

Sorry, this all rubbed me the wrong way today. Aren't we supposed to be focusing on PA's business model and practices, not "bashing" the writers?

Okay, one more thing... as a new writer, you don't always know what questions to ask a publisher. It seemed like a logical assumption that they would want to put books on bookstore shelves and want to help the author in any way possible to boost sales. We know this isn't true of PA, but I did not know that BEFORE signing the contract. That's what I'm saying. You can read something that says, "Don't sign with PA. Run! Run! Run!" but we need to specify why it's not a good idea, so people can understand. The posts here on AW that are specific are the most helpful.

Sweeping statements that a writer is deluded or functionally illiterate do nothing to help someone who is considering signing with PA and it certainly wouldn't make me want to join a group who thinks such things about me.

[LexiCan]

I just want to reiterate that I am not elderly, non-internet-savvy, or functionally illiterate.

Ditto! I haven't quite reached elderly yet, quite internet savvy and quite literate. I had a similar experience to Merri. All the information they provide is very misleading. Not to mention the shock and elation you feel when a publisher finally says yes. Plenty of intelligent and, likely, talented folks have been sucked into that trap. You can't categorize people like that.

[CatSlave]

Originally Posted by Gravity

... That means these days it appears their customers roughly fall into three categories: the elderly, the non-internet-savvy, and the functionally illiterate. ...

I agree with your assessment.

Do you notice that more and more newbies at AW are saying they avoided falling into PA's clutches?
And the current participants on the PAMB sound younger and more naive?
At least they do to me.