Editors

The paid ones are for those who have more money than time, IMO. Most of us strive to do our own editing well enough (with the help of beta readers, bless 'em) in order to get an agent who will present our work to the editors who work for the publishing companies.

There are free-lance editors and there are editors who work for publishers. And free-lance editors who do contract work for publishers.

And there are acquiring editors, and editors who look at the overall story development and copy-editors and...

I'm sorry, what was the question again?

Once you sell your book, an editor will review it and offer suggestions. Then a copyeditor will go over it with a fine-toothed comb.

Unless you plan on self-publishing, hiring a freelance editor often ends up being a waste of time and money. I've heard of exceptions, but they just that--exceptions.

Often in the large houses, the editor who acquires your manuscript if the one who edits it for you. This can be anywhere from a few line edits to extensive rewrites, depending on what the manuscript needs.

Freelance editors are good things for thsoe who have a nonfiction story to tell, but have no real desire to be a writer. But hiring an editor is the worst thing a fiction writer can do. You can't hire some things done, and expect to be a writer.

At commercial publishers, an editor either sees your book first or second, depending on whether there's a gatekeeper, who is likely an assistant editor.

I hesitate to say who will do what because it all depends on the size of the publisher. A small publisher might have a single editor who buys teh book, edits the book copyedits the book, etc. A large publisher may have several editors for each job.

But regardless of the size of the publisher, you'll have an editor to work with the moment you find a publisher who wants it.

Do not waste time, money, and energy on a hired editor.

Although I agree with Jamesaritchie in principle, I don't think a blanket statement like that can apply to everyone. It works for me, I'm willing to review my MS 10 or 12 times to find all the little problems. Others may not have that much patience, or may not have the ability to catch the errors. If they have the money, and are sure their MS is salable, it might be worth the $1,000+ an editor would charge to review his novel.
I surely wouldn't advise anyone doing this for his first novel, the chances of getting a first novel published are just too remote.

Jamesaritchie said:

You can't hire some things done, and expect to be a writer.

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Why not exactly? You can hire a tutor instead of just studying longer and harder or getting a friend to help, but that wouldn't make you any less dedicated of a student. If an editor's got expertise, and a writer is somewhat lacking, there's not wrong with paying for help if he/she can afford it.

It's just another way of learning to become a better writer, and it works well for some people. But I suggest writers exhaust all of their free resources first before contacting a freelance editor if they decide to go that route, to make sure they get their money's worth. And of course, do your research to make sure you're getting someone legit.

Nicole

We've been here before folks.
Most recently in this thread http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158735

RJK said:

Although I agree with Jamesaritchie in principle, I don't think a blanket statement like that can apply to everyone. It works for me, I'm willing to review my MS 10 or 12 times to find all the little problems. Others may not have that much patience, or may not have the ability to catch the errors. If they have the money, and are sure their MS is salable, it might be worth the $1,000+ an editor would charge to review his novel.
I surely wouldn't advise anyone doing this for his first novel, the chances of getting a first novel published are just too remote.

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I agree with this. Also, some people can tell a really good story but don't necessarily have the best grasp of spelling or grammar and may not have anyone who has the capacity to be a good beta-reader (I'm thinking particularly people from very disadvantaged areas and people in non-English speaking countries who write in English). These people can really benefit from having a professional with knowledge of publishing go over their story, point out weaknesses and proofread for them. Also, people who have very busy lives and who've already basically accomplished the impossible by writing a novel in the first place, it might help them out be more productive writing-wise.

Paid editing work has its place and uses.

As to the OP's question: Editors come in pretty much at the beginning of the publishing process (except maybe in non-fiction and academic publishing). When you or your agent send a ms. to a publisher, the person who looks at it and decides wether it's good enough is an editor (well, an Editorial Assistant first in most cases). If it's good, they have to justify it to the Publisher (a person with that title who runs a department) or their Managing Director and the other editors. If they all agree it's worth pursuing, the ms. is bought. The editor who chose it, gets to continue working on it (unless there is someone better qualified in your kind of book). They'll work with you in improving the story until it's ready to be published. They probably won't do the copydediting (because it's time consuming) but send it out to a freelance copyeditor (which the publisher pays for) to correct spelling, grammar etc.
Then the editor will oversee the process of design, typesetting, check proofs etc. all the way into the production process (which is run by a production editor) until your book is published

I'm going to take a different approach: What do you want this editor to do for you?

If it's clean up your manuscript for spelling, grammar, etc., you can do this yourself. There is spell check and there are the eyes in your head. If spelling is not your forte, well, no one said you have to read through the book chronologically in order to catch spelling errors. Grammar... maybe some of that's the voice of your character. If your grammar's hideous, you need to learn how to make it not hideous. You don't want to submit an error-riddled manuscript, but, as many people acknowledge, writers are not editors, and no one expects you to be. That shouldn't dissuade you from polishing the manuscript. You can see errors better when you've had time away from the material - become less familiar with it; print it out; and things start to jump out at you. As a writer, these are good exercises that will help you become a better writer.

If you're looking for an editor to advise you on story points - characterization, plot holes - good beta readers can help. Barring good beta readers, you can see plot holes and other issues better when you've had time away from the material - become less familiar with it; print it out; and be very critical. Keep in mind: Does this make sense? Is it too easy? List all the plot dots and make sure they get connected. This approach can also help you become a better writer, but it's a developed skill. Not everyone can read critically in a way we often want from betas, and it's even harder to do when it's your own work.

I see no reason not to try the above on your own manuscript because, in the end, you will benefit as a writer from the skills you develop in the process. That said, if you really want an editor to do it for you, be very clear on what you want. It's your money.

Delhomeboy said:

Okay, this may sound like an amateur question, but I'm not very clear on the job of editors. Not necessarily what they do, but in what stage of the process they're brought in.

I thought for the longest time that editors got a hold of the manuscript after it was accepted by a publishing company, and they worked for the publisher.

But a lot of people have been saying that they hired an outside editor and THAT'S when they are brought in.

So how does this work. And is hiring an editor worth the money?

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In most cases, editors work for publishers and they get involved in editing your book only after it's sold. Nowadays, because it's become so very hard to get published, some writers have taken to hiring editors on their own, so that they can present the strongest possible work. As a former agent and editor and someone who now does occasional freelance fiction edits, I can tell you that in most cases, it's not a good idea for writers to hire their own editors, for several reasons. First, even an edited first novel is unlikely to sell. Sad but true: the odds are against it. Second, if it does sell, the usual advance on a first novel would barely or not even cover the cost of hiring a private editor. And third, every editor is going to have a somewhat different take on what needs to be done, and the only person you need to please is the editor who buys your work.

I do lots of ms. evaluations, as described on my website, but rarely agree to edit. The first I think a useful service, while the latter's usually a waste of the writer's money and my time. The only exceptions are novels that are so close to being publishable that I feel editing could provide the make-or-break difference. Of course, those sort of books should sell anyway, but these days, editors are like homebuyers who only want houses in move-in condition.

Barbara


Personally, I think the more useful route is an outside evaluator