Learning to Plot

[DannySherbet]

Originally Posted by Sean Craven

Plot is my weakness, and I've decided to try and tackle it head-on. So I'm asking if anyone has any thoughts on how to learn about plotting.

I've joined a free class that Holly Lisle offers from her website, and I've gathered a stack of books. I'm starting my new story out as a collection of notes on needed scenes and story elements, and today I'm going to print them out and shuffle them about, rather than going through my usual process of simply writing it out and juggling it from there.

But if anyone has any thoughts on specific resources and techniques, I'd be grateful. Frankly, I think I have a lot of virtues as a writer, but without narrative drive, well. It's like having a bunch of chrome and no car.

A book called Teach Yourself: Writing A Novel by the late Nigel Watts really helped me to understand the process of plotting. Prior to reading the book about five years ago, I used to just write and write and write, with little forethought or planning. Now, I read books and watch films and see, time and time again, the successful elements of plotting that are highlighted in Nigel Watts' book.

[Maxinquaye]

Originally Posted by EclipsesMuse

Is it possible for the first event not to be the first event in the story?

I hope so. In my first WIP I have the MC going about pursuing one goal that will tip him into a totally different one.

So, in the first chapter he's going around looking to be as invisible as possible. That's he's goal. Then he fails in that, and ends up in a big fight, and that fight lands him in a lot of trouble that requires him to formulate the goal: I want to get out of this!

[HelloKiddo]

[mister_lister]

All fiction should have good ploting. I see plot as problem tackling. First you have to have a problem, then an attempt at resoloution, and eventually resolution (in the favor or out of the favor of the MC). Problems and resolutions. Even character driven, or character sketches, have problems to resolve. Beginning, middle and end. There is always one big problem in my fiction, and lots of little incidental problems. It really drives my fiction. Keep them on the edge of their seats or close to it.

[Technophobe]

*raises hand* So, what's the difference between outlining and plotting? I always thought outlining was how you plotted a story, but some folks seem to refer to them as if they were two separate things.

[bearilou]

Originally Posted by Ruv Draba

Hope that helps.

ILU for this!

Yanno, just sayin' in case you needed to feel the love...

[katiemac]

*raises hand* So, what's the difference between outlining and plotting? I always thought outlining was how you plotted a story, but some folks seem to refer to them as if they were two separate things.

Really it just depends on how you approach writing.

If you're using an outline, you're figuring out your plot before you put pen to paper.

If you're a wing-it-and-let's-see-where-we-go type, then you're still plotting, but as you write.

Fiction is dependent on plot, so whether you outline or not, it's got to be there.

[Use Her Name]

Originally Posted by Technophobe

*raises hand* So, what's the difference between outlining and plotting? I always thought outlining was how you plotted a story, but some folks seem to refer to them as if they were two separate things.

Outlining is just writing things down, like you would write notes while reading a textbook.

Plotting is building a story structure and has several parts which need to be executed at various locations on the plot according to what format you use.

You can write out a plot like an outline if you wish.

[Rhoda Nightingale]

I tend to outline things after the fact, like get halfway through a particular WIP, then get a little scrambled with the details like timelines and where everyone's supposed to live and who did what to whom at what time, and then throw an outline together just to untangle the mess.

But I'm liking this Outline-as-Plotting idea. Seems like it'd keep things tidier in the long run, yeah? Or does it make no difference? (I'm trying to decide whether I need more or less structure.)

[Slushie]

Originally Posted by Rhoda Nightingale

I tend to outline things after the fact, like get halfway through a particular WIP, then get a little scrambled with the details like timelines and where everyone's supposed to live and who did what to whom at what time, and then throw an outline together just to untangle the mess.

But I'm liking this Outline-as-Plotting idea. Seems like it'd keep things tidier in the long run, yeah? Or does it make no difference? (I'm trying to decide whether I need more or less structure.)

I s'pose the only way to know is to just try it out. If it works for you then stick with it. I'm more of the 'follow the characters' type of brane; that's just me.

But there are the little things I tend to forget, and for those things I need to make notes as I go.

[Use Her Name]

I like structure because I really have only about 2 hours a day to do my writing. I need to know what scenes are coming up, what reserch is next in line, and other things. I also prefer a well-structured story. It is on point, dosen't ramble and is usually more memorable than a more loosely plotted story. It also moves faster, and is often with out a junk collection of useless details.

My characters are not real people, so I don't really follow them. They are imaginary, and go where I want them to go.

[Slushie]

(...and she thought I literally follow my characters?)

Unless you really want to get all abstract and metaphysical and stuff. Cuz then my characters are subconsciously based off an assortment of people I've met in real life. Thusly, they are real people!

[Ruv Draba]

Originally Posted by Technophobe

*raises hand* So, what's the difference between outlining and plotting? I always thought outlining was how you plotted a story, but some folks seem to refer to them as if they were two separate things.

A plot is a description of what characters want, what happens to them and what they do about it. An outline is a list of what goes where in your story.

An outline is linear because books are linear. Whether we write it chapter by chapter, scene by scene or beat by beat, an outline will have a strict order. But plot doesn't have to be linear. Imagine a player making a shot in pool. The cue ball might hit two balls, which knock onto two more, and one bounces off the cushion and another rolls into a pocket. Plot concerns itself with intention, motion and impact. There's cause and effect, but we can describe it in any order we like.

People write plots in different ways -- sometimes as an outline... sometimes a grid with characters in columns and time in rows... sometimes as blobs on a page with arrows between showing causes and effects...

So we could write the plot first, then choose our outline. But some prefer to write the outline then check that it has a plot. And some don't outline at all -- they just write manuscript and check for plot... and some do a bit of each.

[Linda Adams]

Originally Posted by Rhoda Nightingale

I tend to outline things after the fact, like get halfway through a particular WIP, then get a little scrambled with the details like timelines and where everyone's supposed to live and who did what to whom at what time, and then throw an outline together just to untangle the mess.

But I'm liking this Outline-as-Plotting idea. Seems like it'd keep things tidier in the long run, yeah? Or does it make no difference? (I'm trying to decide whether I need more or less structure.)

The only thing you can do is try. And do experiment to find one that works for you. Not all of them are alike, and not all of them are as rigidly structured as others.

[Use Her Name]

Everything you work on will take different writing tools. It is all a matter of "solving a problem." If one tool works better for you, that's cool. Many people just write what comes to them, others structure ridgedly, use computer programs and all sorts of things. Some people throw a dart into a map.

The finished result is the goal.

[Mela]

I agree with TrickyFiction's post on Bradbury; first of all, get the word plot out of your head. Don't worry about it for now. You're a storyteller - tell the story - let it unravel, unfold, go wherever it wants and then when it's all done, write the synopsis/outline; juggle things around and you'll have your plot.

IMO, if you're having this much trouble plotting the problem is you're too hung up on the word - on getting something done the way you think it ought to be done and not spending enough time on the pure writing of it.

[Ruv Draba]

Originally Posted by Rhoda Nightingale

II'm liking this Outline-as-Plotting idea. Seems like it'd keep things tidier in the long run, yeah? Or does it make no difference? (I'm trying to decide whether I need more or less structure.)

Structure doesn't help me write a first draft, but it helps me avoid fifth and sixth drafts. I try and use no more than I need to get a clear story-shape out in my first draft. For me that benefits from...

• Loglines for my major characters (see my earlier post on this)
• Throughline descriptions for each of my major characters' themes (happy to post on this if there's interest)
• A basic statement of tone/mood for the world (ditto)
• Any major premises associated with setting
• Some plot-steps (spanning maybe the next 5-10 scenes), as per my method above
• An outline entry covering each scene to date.

I used to write each my outline as a line-per-scene and in critique I still do. But in my own outline I've taken to just writing a key quote or narrative phrase that catches the feel and purpose of the scene. Here's the scene-level outline for my WIP, for example:

01. Tired of London, Tired of life
02. Flame, Smoke and Scalding Steam
03. For King and Country
04. Better off Dead
05. Welcome to Hingland, Lad
06. That will be Thruppence, Please
07. The Black Hound of Melancholia
08. Cellar Six more Years, then Serve with Beef
09. A British Scarecrow
10. While Men Suffer and Widows Weep
11. No to the Infernal Machines of War
12. Beyond Sense
13. Honour Undeserved
14. Jump like a Flea
15. The Politeness of Kings
16. Love does Much, but Money does More
...

An outline like this lets me easily see scene-order, but also track key plot, themes, moods, character turning-points and major points of action. (Also, it forces me to write something memorable in every scene). So if I decide to rearrange scenes I can see exactly what the impact will be on tension, tone and thematic progression -- and have a fair idea of what plot-logic will have to change too.

[Sean Craven]

Wow. There's some great stuff here. Not to downplay anyone else's contributions, but I'd like to give particular shout-outs to Swordswoman, Use Her Name, and especially Ruv Draba for thoughts I'm finding useful.

I'm also getting the impression that a lot of people at a lot of different stages of development have an interest in this subject. Just so you know, here's where I'm at currently. I've been published in the small press for a few years now, I'm the assistant editor on a literary magazine, and I've just made my first sale to a professional market. Most of my effort for the last few years has gone into a novel, and the novel is sadly lacking in narrative traction. So I'm at an awkward stage -- not quite a neophyte, but still lacking some of the skills to make a full transition to pro.

As for outlining vs. freewriting. This is a question that seems to be fairly hotly contested. The basic arguments seem to be that a) outlining tends to be associated with hackwork, and it makes writing boring, while b) you can't hit a target you don't aim for, nobody said you had to stick to the outline, and without an outline the work tends to be sloppy.

I think both positions are valid; it's just a matter of finding what works for a particular work. I think some combination of the two is pretty much unavoidable in long works.

I will say that the arguments against outlining seem to me to be particularly dogmatic, and the most rabid supporters of that approach rarely produce works with structures that I find thoroughly satisfying -- the pleasures I get from their writing tend to be more based in character and moment than overall dramatic force.

I tend toward freewriting, and that's why I'm interested in learning more outlining. My novel was one that inadvertently expanded into a trilogy; I free-wrote the first two volumes, but when I set in on the third volume, I had no natural narrative path. So I made a list of all the dangling plot threads and outlined the third. And it seems to be the most dramatically solid, even if it's still unwritten.

[Lady Ice]

Originally Posted by Ruv Draba

Structure doesn't help me write a first draft, but it helps me avoid fifth and sixth drafts. I try and use no more than I need to get a clear story-shape out in my first draft. For me that benefits from...

• Loglines for my major characters (see my earlier post on this)
• Throughline descriptions for each of my major characters' themes (happy to post on this if there's interest)
• A basic statement of tone/mood for the world (ditto)
• Any major premises associated with setting
• Some plot-steps (spanning maybe the next 5-10 scenes), as per my method above
• An outline entry covering each scene to date.

I used to write each my outline as a line-per-scene and in critique I still do. But in my own outline I've taken to just writing a key quote or narrative phrase that catches the feel and purpose of the scene. Here's the scene-level outline for my WIP, for example:

01. Tired of London, Tired of life
02. Flame, Smoke and Scalding Steam
03. For King and Country
04. Better off Dead
05. Welcome to Hingland, Lad
06. That will be Thruppence, Please
07. The Black Hound of Melancholia
08. Cellar Six more Years, then Serve with Beef
09. A British Scarecrow
10. While Men Suffer and Widows Weep
11. No to the Infernal Machines of War
12. Beyond Sense
13. Honour Undeserved
14. Jump like a Flea
15. The Politeness of Kings
16. Love does Much, but Money does More
...

An outline like this lets me easily see scene-order, but also track key plot, themes, moods, character turning-points and major points of action. (Also, it forces me to write something memorable in every scene). So if I decide to rearrange scenes I can see exactly what the impact will be on tension, tone and thematic progression -- and have a fair idea of what plot-logic will have to change too.

Great idea. I do this for plays but don't really think about it for novels.
The scene list also helps you to identify who's doing what, when new characters arrive, when characters leave, etc. If you've got 5 consecutive scenes with Betty in, if Betty's not the MC or you have more than one MC, you'll probably want to play around with scene order. And of course, you can see the relevance of each scene.

[Aidan Watson-Morris]

I'm a very creative person, so it's not very hard for me, usually just the random inspiration you can find in anything. I've been told, however, that these work;

1. Take your creative ideas (or ideas from Seventh Sanctum) and write them on note cards. No matter HOW different they are, put 'em in a jar and shuffle it up. Then draw them out and see if you can start a story that way.

2. Just as a way to get started, you'll have to change it a lot later, but do the beginning concepts of your favorite movies (ie, Star Wars IV: "Antagonist walks into good guy area with bad guys") and shuffle them. Then try to write a short story, and expand it.

[Ruv Draba]

Originally Posted by Sean Craven

As for outlining vs. freewriting.

People have different minds. They take in information, organise it, make sense of it differently. And when we look at what's happening in a story... the logic, the flow of passion, the changes to characters... plus our growing appreciation of the characters themselves and opportunities for conflict and entertainment, there's more happening than most people can keep track of at once. Some prefer to get the passions worked out first, then sort out logic and structure. Some prefer the reverse. Some like to work with the big picture first; some prefer detail.

I like improvising but I'm a also a bit of an efficiency Nazi... The pain of pre-planning is far less for me than the pain of repeated redrafts... But that said, I seldom know what the climax or ending of my story will be until I'm about halfway through first draft.

[Slushie]

Originally Posted by Ruv Draba

• Throughline descriptions for each of my major characters' themes (happy to post on this if there's interest)

As an example, do you mean 'grief' for characterA and 'struggle with honesty' for characterB? Then you map out the specific scenes that reflect these struggles?

I'm interested and your other posts have been very informative, IMO.

[Maxinquaye]

I found this on the net, about plotting, from Jordan McCollum's blog

Plot Thickens

[Ruv Draba]

Originally Posted by EyeSeaAll

As an example, do you mean 'grief' for characterA and 'struggle with honesty' for characterB? Then you map out the specific scenes that reflect these struggles?

I connect through-lines with themes, so with your indulgence I need to talk about them both together. This is a personal view. I've yet to find two writers who think of this stuff the same way, or a book that covers it the way I'd like to see it covered.

So firstly, what is a theme?

What is a Theme? (Ruv's take)
In music, a theme is an idea that's repeated and varied. Sometimes it's played by a single instrument, sometimes more than one together... Sometimes a theme is played on its own, sometimes in counterpoint with some other theme. I think in literature it's the same. A theme is more than just a repeated image or motif -- it's an idea that the story plays with. In literature, the 'instruments' that play themes are the major characters. Just as in music they can play a theme together, or swap themes, or vary themes... which is part of what gives literature its passion and beauty.

Where plot is about motives and goals, themes are about a character's ruling passions -- what gets them fired up, and how, and what comes of that.

What is a Through-line? (Ruv's take)
If you recall that a log-line is about goals, a through-line is about the ruling passions underpinning those goals. So a log-line carries plot while a through-line carries theme, and the two tend to run in lock-step.

As I mentioned, a convenient format for a log-line is character in situation has objective but encounters opposition with a risk of disaster. Similarly, a convenient format for stating through-line is:

For character(s), passion leads from emotion1 to emotion2.

As a log-line forms part of plot, so a through-line forms part of theme. Example:

For Cinderella, humility leads from humiliation to joy;
for Hansel and Gretel, greed leads from bravery to terror.

In Cinderella we see themes of pride vs humility. Cinderella's humility is counterpointed with the ugly step-sisters' pride. In the end though, Cinderella becomes the grandest of all.

In Hansel and Gretel we see themes of bravery and greed vs prudence. Hansel and Gretel's bravery and greed lead them to almost being devoured by the witch, but their bravery and prudence see them escape.

Related to through-line is the character arc which are just the end-points of the journey: emotion1 and emotion2. So Cinderella's character arc is :

humiliation à joy.

So everything is inter-linked: The character arc tells us there's an emotional change. The through-line tells us what ruling passion drives the change and the plot tells us how this change occurs.

Often characters' ruling passions change too, and to track that, we can write a through-line in several clauses, e.g.

For Snow White, innocence leads from trust to misery, but kindness leads from misery to joy;

For Little Red Riding Hood, innocence leads from trust to betrayal, but faith leads from betrayal to relief.

As I mentioned, 'how' of this progression emerges from plot. E.g. Snow White's ruling passion of Innocence makes her vulnerable to the machinations of the Wicked Queen. But with her Innocence comes Kindness -- as seen in her treatment of the dwarves, and in the way her beauty reflects her heart. So even the Wicked Queen's poison cannot remain forever lodged in her throat.

You'll notice that in these fables there's a moral -- and the moral looks an awful lot like the themes. Which I think is as it should be.

Which comes first: Characters? Themes? Plots?

I think it doesn't matter.

If we have themes, we can create characters and plot to embody those themes. E.g. If I have in themes 'treachery leads from greed to humiliation', then I can create a character who's an extreme of type in treachery, and then find a situation where he'll betray for greed, and then find someone with means to create a disaster that humiliates my character -- then contrive to give him motive and opportunity.

If we have plot, we can find themes just by finding the character arcs and ruling passions of our characters. And if our arcs and ruling passions aren't strong enough, we can use this exercise to strengthen them -- usually by making the characters and situations more extreme.

If we have characters then we can toy with ideas for theme and plot. E.g. if one character is notably gluttonous and another is notably cowardly, what might come of that? How can Iwe put them into counterpoint? Will either character change over time? Will that be to the character's weal or woe?

I think it's for this reason that some authors say that themes emerge organically from (good) stories -- because authors who start with characters or plots will often find their themes along the way. But some authors can start from themes and build stories too.

I often like to sketch my themes out early and let that inform my characters and plots. One benefit of this is that the mood and motifs -- the emotions and imagery that decorate our settings -- can be chosen to enhance my themes. For me, this just creates a more rich and satisfactory first draft. But even if we skip themes in the first draft, we can always find them later.

How do you know if your story has themes?

If your story has ruling passions in its major characters, and strong character arcs I think it's guaranteed to have themes -- even if it has the sketchiest plot. In better-quality published fiction we can see both plot and theme emerging in the opening paragraphs. Here's Jane Austen in Pride and Prejudice, for instance.

Originally Posted by Pride and Prejudice, opening lines

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.

However little known the feelings or views of such a man may be on his first entering a neighbourhood, this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families, that he is considered the rightful property of some one or other of their daughters.

These opening lines establish a ruling passion -- a passion for Fitting Matrimony, which ends up becoming a driver for the story's themes of matrimonial propriety. It also establishes the beginnings of plot -- even before a single character appears. We know that someone will want a man to marry, and that he may not want to be wed as others choose.

Here's the opening for Bram Stoker's Dracula -- it's longer, more subtle, but I think it's worth the read:

3 May. Bistritz.--Left Munich at 8:35 P.M., on 1st May, arriving at Vienna early next morning; should have arrived at 6:46, but train was an hour late. Buda-Pesth seems a wonderful place, from the glimpse which I got of it from the train and the little I could walk through the streets. I feared to go very far from the station, as we had arrived late and would start as near the correct time as possible.

The impression I had was that we were leaving the West and entering the East; the most western of splendid bridges over the Danube, which is here of noble width and depth, took us among the traditions of Turkish rule.

We left in pretty good time, and came after nightfall to Klausenburgh. Here I stopped for the night at the Hotel Royale. I had for dinner, or rather supper, a chicken done up some way with red pepper, which was very good but thirsty. (Mem. get recipe for Mina.) I asked the waiter, and he said it was called "paprika hendl," and that, as it was a national dish, I should be able to get it anywhere along the Carpathians.

I found my smattering of German very useful here, indeed, I don't know how I should be able to get on without it.

Having had some time at my disposal when in London, I had visited the British Museum, and made search among the books and maps in the library regarding Transylvania; it had struck me that some foreknowledge of the country could hardly fail to have some importance in dealing with a nobleman of that country.

I find that the district he named is in the extreme east of the country, just on the borders of three states, Transylvania, Moldavia, and Bukovina, in the midst of the Carpathian mountains; one of the wildest and least known portions of Europe.

I was not able to light on any map or work giving the exact locality of the Castle Dracula, as there are no maps of this country as yet to compare with our own Ordance Survey Maps; but I found that Bistritz, the post town named by Count Dracula, is a fairly well-known place. I shall enter here some of my notes, as they may refresh my memory when I talk over my travels with Mina.

In the population of Transylvania there are four distinct nationalities: Saxons in the South, and mixed with them the Wallachs, who are the descendants of the Dacians; Magyars in the West, and Szekelys in the East and North. I am going among the latter, who claim to be descended from Attila and the Huns. This may be so, for when the Magyars conquered the country in the eleventh century they found the Huns settled in it.

I read that every known superstition in the world is gathered into the horseshoe of the Carpathians, as if it were the centre of some sort of imaginative whirlpool; if so my stay may be very interesting. (Mem., I must ask the Count all about them.)

I did not sleep well, though my bed was comfortable enough, for I had all sorts of queer dreams. There was a dog howling all night under my window, which may have had something to do with it; or it may have been the paprika, for I had to drink up all the water in my carafe, and was still thirsty. Towards morning I slept and was wakened by the continuous knocking at my door, so I guess I must have been sleeping soundly then.

This is written from a Main Character's viewpoint... we learn that his ruling passion is associated with Modernity (see his concern for punctuality, his open-mindedness about travel, and his scorn for backwater countries). But see also how in counterpoint, the place Jonathan Harker travels is all about lust, ignorance and torment -- thirst, bad maps and bad dreams. This paves the way for Count Dracula's ruling passions. Naturally too, the opening also establishes plot -- Jonathan is falling into Dracula's power.

Conclusion
So, in my take, themes are tied to ruling passions and character arcs; and plots are the vehicle passions use to move characters along. So it's all connected and we can literally start wherever we like. But log-lines and through-lines are the methods I find most useful for keeping track of it all. If you know the log-lines you have a fair understanding of your plot; if you know your through-lines then you have a fair understanding of your character arcs and themes.

Hope that helps demystify things a little.

[LOG]

I've never really had to work in a structured manner to create a plot. My brain somehow conjures up a random scenario, and then I write an informal outline from that, then I write my story. *shrugs*