January Book Study - Battle Royale

[Fenika]

Hello, and welcome to the SF/F Book Study as we enter our third year.

This thread is for discussion of Battle Royale by Koushon Takami.

***Spoilers*** will be streaking through this thread unpredictably. You have been warned.

If anyone wants to compare to previous book studies:

2008:
Ender's Game (August)
Lies of Locke Lamora (September)
A Deepness in the Sky (October)
A Fire in the Deep (November)
Storm Front (December)

2009:
I Am Legend (January)
The Onion Girl (February)
Lord of Light (March)
Small Gods (April)
Beggars in Spain (May)
The Once and Future King (June)
Foundation (July)
The Graveyard Book (August)
Neuromancer (September)
The Last Wish (October)
The Knife of Never Letting Go (November)
One Hundred Years of Solitude (December)

Thank you to Broken Fingers for starting the book study!

-----------
Here is the list, compiled by Fingers, of possible discussion topics. Feel free to tackle something off the list or come up with your own points.
-----------
First of all: Did you enjoy the book? Why or why not?
What was your impression of it?
And I’ll list some of the possible things we can discuss:
The Beginning:
- How effective was the opening hook?
- How effective was the first sentence? The first paragraph? The first page? The first chapter?
- When were you pulled into the author’s world? By the end of the first chapter?
- If not, when?
- How do you think this was accomplished? Or why do you think it wasn’t accomplished?
- What would you have done to change it/make it better?
- If you were an editor, what would your reaction be to the first chapter?
- Why do you think the average reader liked it so much?
And more…
The Protagonist:
- What did you like/dislike about the protagonist?
- How did the author introduce the protagonist?
- How did the author get you to become invested in the protagonist?
- What was different about the protagonist as opposed to other protagonists? What was the same? Did the author make the protag distinguishable? If so, how?
- What techniques did the author use to show the protagonist throughout the story?
- What were some of the characteristics the author gave the character and how did they work/not work?
The Characters:
- Did the author make the characters come alive for you?
- How did he/she do this?
- How were they described?
- How were they distinctive?
And more…
The Setting:
- Was the author’s world convincing?
- Did he/she make you feel you were there? How?
- What about the setting did you like? Not like?
- What would you have done differently?
And more….
The Plot/Story:
- Did you enjoy it? Why or why not?
- Was it different or similar to other plotlines in the genre? How?
- Was it believable? Predictable?
- Were there any twists, turns or surprises?
- Would you have thought of it? How does it compare to your own plotline of your WIP?
- Did it pull you through or did you have to wade through it?
- How was this done or how do you think it should’ve been done?
- If you were buying stories for a publisher, and this manuscript hit your desk (not knowing what you do now about its sales) would you have bought it or expected it to be successful?
- Why do you think the buying public enjoyed it so much?
- What variations, if any, would you have added to the storyline/plot?
And more…
The Style:
- What did you think of the author’s style of writing? Like it? Hate it?
- How much do you think this had to do with the success of the book, if any?
- What type of POV was used? How effective was it? Would the book have turned out different if the POV were done differently?
- How removed was the author from the story or how intrusive?
And more…
The Structure:
- How did the author unfold the story?
- Were the beginning, middle and end equally strong?
- How effective was the way the author gave you all the information?
Was it straightforward? Suspenseful? Predictable? Surprising?
- Could it have been done another way?
- Was it a linear structure or did the scenes jump around? How did this add/detract from the story or your enjoyment of it?
And more…..
The Theme:
- Was there any? What was it?
- Did you think it had an impact on your enjoyment of the story?
- Was it blatant or subtle?
- Do you think the average reader registered this?
- Do you think it may have affected him/her or contributed in any way to the success of the book?
And more…
Conflict:
- What was the main conflict?
- How was it handled?
- Was it a large part of the story or did the author keep it lying under the surface?
- What other conflicts did the author use in the story and when? (Internal and external.)
- What purpose did they serve?
- Would the story have been as enjoyable with less conflict? More?
- What types of conflict could’ve added to the story? Which conflicts subtracted from the story?
And more…
Dialogue:
- Was it realistic?
- Was it readable?
- How did the author handle ‘tags’?
- Was there a lot of dialogue or a little?
- Were there dialects? Slang? Profanity? Vulgarity?
And more…
The Ending:
- Was it satisfying? Why or why not?
- Did it come as a surprise or did you see it coming from page two?
- Would you have ended it the same?
- Was everything resolved?
- Would you be able to write a sequel?
- Would you buy another book from this author?
And more….

[ELMontague]

I'm about half way through. It took me a while, maybe a hundred pages, to settle into Takami's style. Now I'm riding along, most interested in the outcome. I really don't care much about any of the characters.

[ELMontague]

Second comment - the dialogue isn't brilliant. It is at once too mature for fifteen year olds and too juvenile for them. It's like none of them are even the slightest bit jaded, but all them are dating, having sex, drinking, stealing, and organizing rebellion. And do Japanese schools really have that many organized athletics in elementary school? In fifth grade we got school band, which was a starter for Junior High band. The only athletics were little league and Pop Warner, but those were not school sponsored. I've got more thoughts, but I'll hold them until I've read more.

[ELMontague]

OK, one more observation - the weapons. Takami makes a point of naming the firearms, Smith & Wesson Military and Police .38 Special, Walther PPK, Uzi machine pistol. These are all western makes. Why would the Greater Asian... (can't remember it right now) be giving out western arms? Even if the weapons were just knock offs of the name brands, wouldn't we expect to see weapons of Asian manufacture?

[Sai]

It's been a few years since I read this, and I remember it being a pretty stilted affair. I know someone mentioned in the poll thread that there was a re-release recently that polished it up a bit. I don't know if I like it enough to re-read it, but a new edition does make me curious. When it comes to how I like my Battle Royal, I prefer the comic followed by the movie and then the book.

[K_Woods]

I just got a copy of the new edition, and I have the old one on the shelf, so I will be making side-by-side comparisons periodically (and Sai is right, the original had issues with stiltedness). I plan on starting the book tonight--what? Other books? They'll get their turn

Just curious, has anyone else here read The Hunger Games? It tackles much the same premise (to an extent that I wonder how much BR influenced the author, actually) but with a slightly different writerly toolkit. That's another reason I'm itching to get back to Battle Royale, to see where the different approaches succeed and falter.

[geardrops]

Oh, I actually read this book years ago. Suh-weet.

I remembered enjoying this book, liking the different psychologies of the characters, such that they were. Seeing normal kids go into crazy-survival-mode, seeing how the terrible pasts of some of these kids manifest into killing with relative ease in the name of survival (as has always been the game for them), and seeing what happens to the kids who fight to rise above it all.

The writing was a touch stilted but I can't say if this is true to the author or a byproduct of translation. Very heavy book, and I think it was pretty faithfully translated to the movie.

K_Woods: THE HUNGER GAMES is significantly less brutal and more squishy-cuddly than BATTLE ROYALE.

[K_Woods]

Originally Posted by dempsey

K_Woods: THE HUNGER GAMES is significantly less brutal and more squishy-cuddly than BATTLE ROYALE.

Eeyup. That wasn't what I meant, though -- I meant they both shared the same idea to start. I think I owe BR a reread before I declare it the better execution of the premise (and BR definitely has its flaws), but THG shot itself in the foot repeatedly from page one (and going squishy-cuddly was part of that). And then plastering the equivalent of "TO BE CONTINNER'D" at the end guaranteed that I won't pick up another book by her.

[geardrops]

Originally Posted by K_Woods

And then plastering the equivalent of "TO BE CONTINNER'D" at the end guaranteed that I won't pick up another book by her.

<derail>

I'd recommend against reading THE MAZE RUNNER then. Maybe HUNGER GAMES had TBC on the back, but at least it felt resolved.

[Makai_Lightning]

Originally Posted by ELMontague

Second comment - the dialogue isn't brilliant. It is at once too mature for fifteen year olds and too juvenile for them. It's like none of them are even the slightest bit jaded, but all them are dating, having sex, drinking, stealing, and organizing rebellion. And do Japanese schools really have that many organized athletics in elementary school? In fifth grade we got school band, which was a starter for Junior High band. The only athletics were little league and Pop Warner, but those were not school sponsored. I've got more thoughts, but I'll hold them until I've read more.

As far as this goes, I'm not sure how much of the writing (and dialogue) problems I noticed were problems with translation or the original writing, but I know translation from that language is pretty tough. I give the author a bit of a pass on that because there were some things that don't translate.

For example (Spoiler ahead, for anyone who hasn't read it all yet)
The lighthouse scene. All the girls start out polite and start getting paranoid and scary. In the Japanese version, in their dialogue they have after each other's names the honorifics. As that scene continues they start with the really polite honorifics and as they start going crazy they start dropping them down. A friend of mine who speaks fluent Japanese told me that anyway, I personally can't read Japanese. (No more spoilers). Anyway, there's things like that that don't translate, and Japanese grammar is pretty different from English, so there's a lot of ways I think translation is difficult. So I don't know how much problems in the writing should be held against the author, because some of it might work much better in it's original language.

As far as school sports and stuff, I'm not sure exactly, but I do know that in Japanese schools, in elementary school they spend a lot of time trying to foster community between students. Sports would be a really good way to do that. There's a lot I don't know about Japan, but from what I do know I could believe it.


Me, I found it kind of addicting to read, I got through it really fast.. Some of the characters annoyed me, and in a lot of ways the fact that you sort of knew most of them were going to die made it hard to connect. I also had the nagging feeling that I was missing the overall impact of what these constant battle royal's did to the country and it's people. I remember being told some of the details, but I guess I didn't feel it as much as it seemed like I should have.

[Rhoda Nightingale]

I read this last year, shortly after discovering the movie, and was blown away. Although I did wonder about the translation, and what I was possibly missing on account of not being to read Japanese. It also really reminded me of Stephen King--huge cast of characters, all with a really detailed background, distinctive charater voices, really gruesome descriptions with all the killings--it's overwhelming, but at the same time, you don't feel like you're losing track of anyone.

I think in general, the movie's more entertaining, but the book gives you more to think about.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

Originally Posted by ELMontague

Second comment - the dialogue isn't brilliant. It is at once too mature for fifteen year olds and too juvenile for them. It's like none of them are even the slightest bit jaded, but all them are dating, having sex, drinking, stealing, and organizing rebellion. And do Japanese schools really have that many organized athletics in elementary school? In fifth grade we got school band, which was a starter for Junior High band. The only athletics were little league and Pop Warner, but those were not school sponsored. I've got more thoughts, but I'll hold them until I've read more.

Japanese schools have a lot of sports teams and clubs throughout the grades. Even things like kendo and archery.

[ELMontague]

OK, finished. It was an enjoyable read, but it really took me a good hundred pages to settle into it. The killing was just so blase, then once it had it's own stride it started to work.

[The Black Ghost]

Hey, I read this book and love (after I watched the movie, which is among my favorites of all time) so I am biased.

I think the book is written in a very unique way, which I always like. Some readers might not like it because it breaks from the traditional. Its really a compilation of a lot of short stories that weave together, in my mind, because it has so many characters that its not meant to be a scene-to-scene book.


What I love is the philosophy of the different characters, how they react and how they change (if they do). I think the story itself is interesting, and the premise is strange but intruiging. It all feels a lot better in the movie--which I HIGHLY reccommend--but the movie cannot possibly go in depth the way the book does. I enjoyed it.


In fact, this is one of the few books I would suggest reading after seeing the movie made of it, because you have more motivation ot read it and understand the characters as you have seen on screen.

[Liosse de Velishaf]

Originally Posted by The Black Ghost

Hey, I read this book and love (after I watched the movie, which is among my favorites of all time) so I am biased.

I think the book is written in a very unique way, which I always like. Some readers might not like it because it breaks from the traditional. Its really a compilation of a lot of short stories that weave together, in my mind, because it has so many characters that its not meant to be a scene-to-scene book.


What I love is the philosophy of the different characters, how they react and how they change (if they do). I think the story itself is interesting, and the premise is strange but intruiging. It all feels a lot better in the movie--which I HIGHLY reccommend--but the movie cannot possibly go in depth the way the book does. I enjoyed it.


In fact, this is one of the few books I would suggest reading after seeing the movie made of it, because you have more motivation ot read it and understand the characters as you have seen on screen.

I find a lot of non-English literature strikes me this way, perhaps because it comes from world-views and cultures so different from my own. Russian and Japanese literature in particular. And Chinese. Of course, the other probably would, too, if I had read enough of them to make a generalized statement.